Worried About Dfp And Eolys Fluid

[hawker]

I purchased My 1.6TDCi (110ps) on 92,000 miles back in November, and now has 97,000 miles on the clock. It was previously a leased company car which had a full service history but not at a main dealer, namely the last one at 75,000 miles being done at a Nationwide AutoCentre.

According to Ford's service schedule, the DPF+Eolys176 fluid should have been changed at 75K but this was not done as it wasn't authorised by the leasing company apparently.

I've heard that DPF's can stop working completely around the 100K mark, and I'm bricking it now, as info on Honest John says this can be around £1000 to replace, and I'm not even sure if this includes the Eolys176 fluid which is around £100 for 3 litres on eBay!

Obviously I dont fancy forking out that sort of money at all, and I cant afford it at the moment anyway, so if the DPF gives up the ghost, what is the worst that can happen? Will it affect the drive or just impact on emissions. I assume a diesel with a non working DPF would fail an MOT emissions test?

If a buggered DPF means I can still drive it ok but wont be MOT passable, then that means I have up to 6 months to get rid of the car until the next MOT comes around.

Are there any cheaper solutions to get this done?

Eg. eBay sells DPF's for £350, and i assume any exhaust company could fit, but I've heard that the computer must be reset by a main dealer on a DPF+Eolys change, so can this ONLY be done by Ford? Could I get the work done independently, and just get Ford to just reset it?

Any advice on this would be very much appreciated.

;)

[artscot79]

My 1.6TDCi (110ps) is on 97,000 miles. It was previously a leased company car which had a full service history but not at a main dealer, namely the last one at 75,000 miles being done at a Nationwide AutoCentre.

According to Ford's service schedule, the DPF+Eolys176 fluid should have been changed at 75K but this was not done as it wasn't authorised by the leasing company apparently. I've heard that DPF's can give up around the 100K mark, and I'm bricking it now, as info on Honest John says this can be around £1000 to replace, and I'm not even sure if this includes the Eolys176 fluid which is around £100 for 3 litres on ebay!

Obviously I dont fancy forking out that sort of money at all, and I cant afford it at the moment anyway, so if the DPF gives up the ghost, what is the worst that can happen? Will it affect the drive or just impact on emissions. I assume a diesel with a non working DPF would fail an MOT emissions test?

If a buggered DPF means I can still drive it ok but wont be MOT passable, then that means I have up to 6 months to get rid of the car until the next MOT comes around.

Are there any cheaper solutions to get this done?

Eg. ebay sells DPF's for £350, and i assume any exhaust company could fit, but I've heard that the computer must be reset by a main dealer on a DPF+Eolys change, so can this ONLY be done by Ford? Could I get the work done independently, and just get Ford to just reset it?

Any advice on this would be very much appreciated.

you could get it done independantly and get ford to reset it if they will as they havent carried out the work they dont have to sadly this is the problem with modern diesels and totally outweighs the money youve saved ibn fuel in my opinion hence why ive never went back to diesel sadly this could be costly whatever you do im not sure ide trust eBay unless its a genuine ford part cheaper parts dont tend to live long such as pattern coil packs etc sometimes dont even work at all ide be more tempted to find an exhaust company that will supply and fit yet again it will be costly

[catch]

Yep I bought a 54 plate Volvo S40 2.0D SE back in Jan 09 with 57k+ on the clock, then about 7 months in I learnt about the DPF, and the replacement schedule meant I was looking at a £1000 75K or 6th year service which ever comes first. So at 9 months of ownership and 63K+ miles on the clock an whilst still in warranty I moved it on. hence I'm back in a petrol model.

Just consulted my spread sheet yearly estimated at 5k = £130 saving per year in fuel, set against DPF renewal and eloys top up, cost of £115 a year over the six year maintenance cycle, and more expensive insurance on my S40 of £46. Means just on that count running my 1.6 petrol Zetec saves me £31 a year. At 6k annual mileage it drops to a £4 a year saving run the 1.6 petrol

But obviously servicing a Focus is a lot cheaper than servicing an S40. For a start 4 tyres on a S40 cost £520 for premiums, on the Focus £320. Like I say my service will cost me £100 as against stumping up £1000 on the S40

Obviously on a 1.6 TDCi the fuel savings would be better, and the bigger the annual mileage the more the economics swing in favour of a diesel.

As to will it still run with a clogged DPF, no the engine management will put it in "limp home mode" at the very least. Then you will have to have a forced regeneration done circa £150 and then it may not work meaning a new DPF. Removing the DPF, may also put the engine management into failure mode. Not sure so don't quote me, best you seek advice.

[hillmangimp]

I wasn't aware of the dpf issues when I bought my diesel and I'm so glad/lucky my car doesn't have one. A bit of black smoke from the exhaust is bearable when you consider the cost of replacing the dpf and the running problems dpf's have caused for some diesels.

[artscot79]

I wasn't aware of the dpf issues when I bought my diesel and I'm so glad/lucky my car doesn't have one. A bit of black smoke from the exhaust is bearable when you consider the cost of replacing the dpf and the running problems dpf's have caused for some diesels.

sadly this is the cost we pay for brussels governments and green peace etc if the planet blows up in 1 million years so be it but it gives the companies an excuse to make money ioff us by adding these devices in the name of a cleaner environment im pretty fed up with it all to be honest between fuel road tax and all this other junk but look an the bright side we could drive a battery car that does the whole 100 miles on acharge then plug it in but wait a minute does that not use more electric meaning more emissions? but they dont tell us that welll mr brown as a fellow scotsman you can kiss my axxe at election time sorry going off subject i agree diesels without this new fangled crap are far better and more economical if it were me ide consider getting shot and getting another car if it meant spending a grand on a service if it can be regenerated thats not so bad

[hawker]

I wish I was aware of DPF's and Eolys fluid before I bought this (my first) diesel!

If I was I would have steered clear of buying a car with one.

Are there any tell-tale signs to look out for in the way the car behaves when the DPF is starting to go before the pretty drastic sounding "limp home mode" kicks in?

What actually happens in "limp home mode"?

[hillmangimp]

I wish I was aware of DPF's and Eolys fluid before I bought this (my first) diesel!

If I was I would have steered clear of buying a car with one.

Are there any tell-tale signs to look out for in the way the car behaves when the DPF is starting to go before the pretty drastic sounding "limp home mode" kicks in?

What actually happens in "limp home mode"?

I've never had a limp home mode in a Ford/diesel but my other car has been in limp home mode and what basically happens is that performance is restricted to stop the problem getting worse. So it would be less power and the car not revving beyond a certain point in the rev range (in my instance it was 3k rpm and not going above 60mph). Also it would be accompanied by a warning light. Its pretty obvious when limp home has ocurred due to performance drop off. From what I've read dpf problems are apparent due to running problems with the car especially in terms of power delivery.

[catch]

I wish I was aware of DPF's and Eolys fluid before I bought this (my first) diesel!

If I was I would have steered clear of buying a car with one.

Are there any tell-tale signs to look out for in the way the car behaves when the DPF is starting to go before the pretty drastic sounding "limp home mode" kicks in?

What actually happens in "limp home mode"?

Considering you have a 2006 model, I think what you need to do is first ascertain if it had the 35/36.5k or three year service done that applies to cars with the DPF. In that did it have the Eloys additive renewed at that service. And the engine management reset [this is to let the EM system that said renewal of additive has taken place] If it has not been done, then get it done, because if it is empty and the DPF blocks and needs a "forced Regeneration" done, and even if that is successful [no need to renew the filter] you will end up with the cost of a FG and a cost of replenishing the additive. So my advice would be as outlined above, now.

Now dependent on the mileage the car has done, different scenarios apply. You have a four year old car, and if it has only done average mileage circa 12/15k a year it would now be on circa 36/45k. So on that measure and in compliance with the maintenance schedule the DPF replacement is not due until 75k or the sixth year service[which ever comes first]So that being the case that is two years into the future. Obviously if the car has already covered 75k+, whilst it does not mean it is going to fail any time soon, but you will have to realise you are on borrowed time. I say that because obviously Ford/Volvo will have set the scheduled renewal of the DPF, to resolve the problem of a vehicle breaking down due to a DPF failure mid service schedule.

I hope the above is helpful to you. But what I will say is this, your only reacting like I did when I found out about the dreaded DPF. In that you read all the horror stories and start "bricking yourself"

Don't panic, just work out your options. For instance look at the "!Removed!" lets shift it pronto course of action. Looking at the PX to Dealer price difference, your into a bigger cost than the cost of replacing the DPF. So what I'm saying is, if you like the car, and considering your annual perceived mileage. Why not opt for the DPF replacement cost when it comes about? I reckon it will be the cheaper option for you, as the next DPF cost will be three years into the future, with a additive top up, and your fuel savings will have well compensated for that additional cost.

[hawker]

thanks catch, very helpful mate.

My car is on 97K, so i am indeed on borrowed time. I'll have a look through the paperwork and check the 36K service, but even if it was done then, its going to have to happen again pretty soon.

I do like this car even though in the 6 months i've had it, i've had a multitude of problems (brake discs crumbled, clutch+DMF went, alternator went, injector seals went) but when it IS going, its a lovely drive, so I'm really in 2 minds as to jump ship on it or not.

If I decide to keep the Focus, I'll be looking at a bill of around £1500 over the next year, for both DPF/Eolys and a cambelt change, so this may grudgingly be the deciding factor as to my final decision.

I've seen a Y reg Audi A3 1.9 SE Diesel for £4000 thats done 104,000 miles which looks in excellent condition, and at least this would eliminate the looming DPF/Eolys problem, but i'm very much undecided as to what to do at the moment.

[catch]

thanks catch, very helpful mate.

My car is on 97K, so i am indeed on borrowed time. I'll have a look through the paperwork and check the 36K service, but even if it was done then, its going to have to happen again pretty soon.

the Eloys additive thing works like this, when you fuel your car the EM system adds some additive to the fuel tank. The additive tank no doubt holds enough to see you through at least 36k mileage. Now if the additive reservoir ran dry I would have thought you would get a service message warning you of the fact, as it's needed to assist DPF regeneration. But you would have to confirm that with a Ford mechanic.

I do like this car even though in the 6 months i've had it, i've had a multitude of problems (brake discs crumbled, clutch+DMF went, alternator went, injector seals went) but when it IS going, its a lovely drive, so I'm really in 2 minds as to jump ship on it or not.

well DPF aside I bet you have now sorted all that was obviously wrong with it in the first place.

If I decide to keep the Focus, I'll be looking at a bill of around £1500 over the next year, for both DPF/Eolys and a cambelt change, so this may grudgingly be the deciding factor as to my final decision.

I'm sure you could get it done a lot cheaper then that, cambelt change £250 inclusive, DPF and eloys cost circa £400 + an hour to an hour and a half mechanic time. £800 to £900 tops I would have thought.

I've seen a Y reg Audi A3 1.9 SE Diesel for £4000 thats done 104,000 miles which looks in excellent condition, and at least this would eliminate the looming DPF/Eolys problem, but i'm very much undecided as to what to do at the moment.

There is a saying "better the devil you know than the devil you don't" but at the end of the day it's your call mate.

Best of look

[hawker]

I've phoned several Ford dealers and the cheapest price I've been given to replace DPF and Eolys fluid change is £1500!!! :o

Looks like I'll be jumping ship and selling soon!

[catch]

I've phoned several Ford dealers and the cheapest price I've been given to replace DPF and Eolys fluid change is £1500!!! :o

Looks like I'll be jumping ship and selling soon!

Back end of last year, on the Volvo forum a guy with a S40 2.0D SE due the major 75K service which included the replacement of the DPF and Eloys top up. Was quoted by a Volvo dealer £1000, now think on Volvo charge circa £350 for a standard service. He then got a quote from a Ford dealership for the same major service and DPF £900

[hawker]

I've done more phoning around and managed to sort out the following:

1. Eolys fluid change with computer reset at local Ford dealership for £100

2. Replace DPF at a local independent garage (£310). I've used this garage many times before and are trustworthy

3. Replace cambelt (with kit) £200 at same independent garage.

As I'll be paying £25 a month for the next 18 months for a non-transferrable RAC warranty, and the fact that so many things have been replaced new lately on the Focus, I think I may keep it and go down this route instead of selling up.

A couple of things I'm uncertain about:

I've not got any warning lights on the dash relating to DPF/Eolys, and I want to change these as a precautionary measure as its coming up to 100K miles. Will a "regeneration cycle" still need to be performed, or is this only when the DPF has given up and/or Eolys has run out?

If so, is this done when the DPF is replaced, or when the Eolys fluid is changed?

Can a non Ford dealership perform a "regeneration cycle"?

[bottletree]

I have the same car as yours. I was a bit annoyed to find out about this DPF crap thats on my car. Its just another way for manufacturers to get money out of joe public yet again. I have 42k on my car and i cant recall if it had the fluid top up at 3 years service.Its got the full Ford service history so i take it as a yes it has. Hopefully by the time the dpf on my car needs sorting the prices will have come down a little. I dont like dealers and always take my car to a private garage.But this looks like its a job for the dealers, i dont know?

It sounds like you have had loads done to your car and if i were you i would stick with it and know that at least you have the major jobs done now.

[catch]

I've done more phoning around and managed to sort out the following:

1. Eolys fluid change with computer reset at local Ford dealership for £100

2. Replace DPF at a local independent garage (£310). I've used this garage many times before and are trustworthy

3. Replace cambelt (with kit) £200 at same independent garage.

great news

As I'll be paying £25 a month for the next 18 months for a non-transferrable RAC warranty, and the fact that so many things have been replaced new lately on the Focus, I think I may keep it and go down this route instead of selling up.

well if you think you need the piece of mind of a warranty go for it.

A couple of things I'm uncertain about:

I've not got any warning lights on the dash relating to DPF/Eolys, and I want to change these as a precautionary measure as its coming up to 100K miles. Will a "regeneration cycle" still need to be performed, or is this only when the DPF has given up and/or Eolys has run out?

In the normal everyday use of the car "regenerations" happen periodically when the EMS is instructed that the filter is starting to soot up. Unfortunately the system does not make you aware of this, but on my S40 I had an instantaneous mpg read out. And when it was happening you would see the mpg maybe drop from 44mpg to maybe 34mpg . Obviously the EMS alters the fuel mixture to aid the regeneration process. A "Forced Regeneration" is when you DPF blocks up due to a normal regeneration failing to clear the filter. But I would think if that happened, maybe because your out of Eloy's the EMS would warn you of a failed regeneration attempt. Forced Regens are preformed by the dealership, they will have have access to the EMS to effect this.

If your car is not bring up any warnings about soot build up, or service needed messages, or your not experiencing "limp home mode" then it's fair to say your DPF is working fine. Are you sure you have one on the car? I'd say get the cambelt done, and whilst it's in the garage put it on the ramp and see if it has a DPF in the exhaust set up. Or see if you can see the Eloys additive reservoir. I'm not sure if that is not accessed some where under the rear seats.

Anyhow assuming your having it done, have the new DPF fit at the independent garage. Then take it to a Ford main dealer for it's Eloyes additive top up and engine management reset.

If so, is this done when the DPF is replaced, or when the Eolys fluid is changed?

Can a non Ford dealership perform a "regeneration cycle"?

see above answers.

[hawker]

Thanks again catch. Very helpful as usual mate. ;)

If I decide to keep the Focus (and I'm edging towards that at the moment) then I'll definitely get the belt changed soon.

Mine is the 110ps Duratorq 1.6TDCi and as far as I'm aware, these have DPF's

I'll probably end up changing DPF and fluid too, but I was wondering, is there a test that can be done to determine the general condition of your DPF? Eg. an emissions test perhaps. Could this determine how efficiently your DPF is performing? If so, and my current DPF is good enough, then I'll just get the Eolys fluid changed.

I have 42k on my car and i cant recall if it had the fluid top up at 3 years service.Its got the full Ford service history so i take it as a yes it has.

I dont think so unfortunately :( . The Ford garage I spoke to said that this is in the schedule for 3 years/37,500 miles and they will tell you that it needs doing and will add this cost to the cost of the service, so unless you noticed a particularly big bill on that service, then my guess is it was not done.

[catch]

Mine is the 110ps Duratorq 1.6TDCi and as far as I'm aware, these have DPF's

Yes that's right

I'll probably end up changing DPF and fluid too, but I was wondering, is there a test that can be done to determine the general condition of your DPF? Eg. an emissions test perhaps. Could this determine how efficiently your DPF is performing?

No I don't think so, I suggest you re read this AA Diesel Particulate Filters Especially the section "How do they work?" So having read that section, it is fair to say your DPF is undergoing either and or Passive and Active regeneration cycles without a hitch. Because the article says if it fails to clear the filter after an attempted "Active" regeneration, a warning light will illuminate. I would then suggest you take it for a "burn" down a motorway or dual carriage way, traffic permitting for say 20 minutes. And if your still getting the failed to clean filter message. Then considering the mileage done on your existing filter, I would opt for a New DPF and Eloys top up. Until that scenario presents itself, I would just leave everything as is. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what you are most fearful of, is having to pay for a dealer initiated "Forced" regeneration. Look even if it did block it is of no consequence as you know it is living on borrowed time. And as such you would be binning the existing DPF and fitting a new one.....hence no "Forced" regen would be required.

If so, and my current DPF is good enough, then I'll just get the Eolys fluid changed.

see above replies.

[hawker]

Thanks again catch.

I'm not getting any warning lights at all whatsoever. I'm only looking into this as I know this should have been done on 75K but was not, so I'm definitely on borrowed time at the moment approaching 100K. I'm only looking into changing DFP+Eolys as a purely preventative precautionary measure.

So are you suggesting not to bother changing until I get a warning light on the dash?

[bottletree]

I have been telling people at work who have similar cars(diesels) with the dpf built in about this. 2 have the new fiesta and another has a focus c-max with the dpf.

I'm not very popular at the moment.

[jeebowhite]

Thanks Catch for pointing me back to this thread!

Does an extended warranty cover DPF replacements?

Do all diesels have DPF's nowadays?

[catch]

Thanks again catch.

I'm not getting any warning lights at all whatsoever. I'm only looking into this as I know this should have been done on 75K but was not, so I'm definitely on borrowed time at the moment approaching 100K. I'm only looking into changing DFP+Eolys as a purely preventative precautionary measure.

So are you suggesting not to bother changing until I get a warning light on the dash?

Short answer yes.It may have another 6 months in it or possibly 12 months, there's no way we can know exactly. Pushing out any DPF related cost 6 to 12 months into the future. Must be a bonus to you considering the initial expense of the purchase, and the subsequent costs of all the repair work you have had done. But in the end the decision is yours mate.

And another thing £450 over eighteen months on a warranty, think about it that's the cost of replacing the DPF and Eloys top up and ECU reset. Warranties don't cover items that need replacing due to fair usage, and at 97K the clutch, discs and pads where fair usage. The alternator was bad luck, in that in 45 years of car ownership I have never had to replace one [and bear in mind I have always bought second hand cars, and usually run them until they are not economically viable to repair]And as you say the injector seals replacement was possibly not required, but at the end of the day you have to be guided by a garage in who you have faith. So what I'm saying is I have only ever had to replace components that by their very nature wear out due to their usage. Cam belt, clutch, disks and pads, the odd battery, tyres, Wiper Blades. 97K on a diesel engine is nothing it should be good for that again.

I know I keep coming up with suggestions that challenge your preferred course of action at any given time, but I'm only trying to save you money mate.

[hawker]

Thanks Catch for pointing me back to this thread!

Does an extended warranty cover DPF replacements?

Do all diesels have DPF's nowadays?

I would be staggered if any warranty would cover a DPF renewal.

I think all newly produced diesels these days will have a DPF. They need to in order to comply with the Euro IV/V/VI standards

Catch: I'm undecided as to what to do now mate! I already think that my current DPF has done well lasting this long, so I'm worried what adverse effects not renewing it (and especially the Eolys fluid) will have on the car as a whole.

[catch]

I have been telling people at work who have similar cars(diesels) with the dpf built in about this. 2 have the new fiesta and another has a focus c-max with the dpf.

I'm not very popular at the moment.

I know there is another DPF variant that could possibly be on later models [08 onwards possibly]that do not need the Eloys additive every 3rd service. Or new DPF's every 6th year. But which makers are using them and or on which models, I don't know. I think it was touched on, at the tail end of this Honest Johon forum thread

Remember I bought my Volvo S40 back in Jan 09 with the same amount of knowledge you lads had when you bought yours, ZERO. So I'm no expert on the subject, I'm just passing on what I found out about DPF's. Because that is what forums are all about, helping each other.

[catch]

Thanks Catch for pointing me back to this thread!

Does an extended warranty cover DPF replacements?

Do all diesels have DPF's nowadays?

No, treated alike an exhaust in warranty terms

New ones yes

[catch]

Catch: I'm undecided as to what to do now mate! I already think that my current DPF has done well lasting this long, so I'm worried what adverse effects not renewing it (and especially the Eolys fluid) will have on the car as a whole.

Don't worry about it having an effect on the car, sure a blocked filter will throw up a service required messages related to the DPF malfunction. But it want have any adverse effect on your car like damaging the engine. The Eloys is purely to aid the burning off of soot particles.The DPF functions or it doesn't, once it stops functioning given it has done 97k replace it ....simples. But hey if your still unsure have either the Eloys topped up and if you want renew the DPF. I don't want you blaming me because you cannot sleep at night ;)