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jimmyboiii
i had a K&N panel filter to replace my old paper air filter about 3 weeks ago, its supposed to let the engine breath better, increasing BHP and low range torque... are they really worth the money ??
Jonny87
imo no
cyb
[quote name='jimmyboiii' date='06 February 2010 - 05:31 PM' timestamp='1265476910' post='63787']
i had a K&N panel filter to replace my old paper air filter about 3 weeks ago, its supposed to let the engine breath better, increasing BHP and low range torque... are they really worth the money ??
[/quote]


personally I think the most extra bhp you're going to get by just changing an air filter is +4bhp (if you are lucky) and if you can tell the difference from standard with a figure that small youíre a better man than I.
I think the only thing these filters do is make the induction noise slightly louder and if you have music playing most of the time you ainít going to hear the difference - save your cash stick with the filter Ford deigned for the car. :)
Slugsy
If your running the car standard then no it makes no difference apart from noise. If it's induction noise you want drill a few half inch holes in the bottom of the air box. If you run it with a Decat exhaust system re map etc it will help as it has a stiffer build construction which stops it from collapsing So much under full throttle when sucking in the most air. In doing that people usually replace the intake pipe for a silcone or alluminium pipe for the same reason. Hope that helps
artscot79
[quote name='Slugsy' date='06 February 2010 - 08:55 PM' timestamp='1265489113' post='63822']
If your running the car standard then no it makes no difference apart from noise. If it's induction noise you want drill a few half inch holes in the bottom of the air box. If you run it with a Decat exhaust system re map etc it will help as it has a stiffer build construction which stops it from collapsing So much under full throttle when sucking in the most air. In doing that people usually replace the intake pipe for a silcone or alluminium pipe for the same reason. Hope that helps
[/quote]

they save cash as they are washable and tested to work with the engine you wiont see a difference and thats not really the point it does help for better breathing a bit but the fact irt doesnt need replaced is the main reason
Jonny87
[quote name='artscot79' date='06 February 2010 - 10:24 PM' timestamp='1265494496' post='63852']
they save cash as they are washable and tested to work with the engine you wiont see a difference and thats not really the point it does help for better breathing a bit but the fact irt doesnt need replaced is the main reason
[/quote]


Yeah this is true, but most garages include a filter in their standard service anyway, maybe they would give a discount but I doubt it
artscot79
[quote name='Jonny87' date='06 February 2010 - 10:29 PM' timestamp='1265494761' post='63856']
Yeah this is true, but most garages include a filter in their standard service anyway, maybe they would give a discount but I doubt it
[/quote]


true very true personally ive used them depending on the car they can increase mpg but like you say most garages have them as part of the service anyway suppose it comes downb to the person really if you want that extra few bhp or not
stef123
[quote name='artscot79' date='06 February 2010 - 10:24 PM' timestamp='1265494496' post='63852']
they save cash as they are washable and tested to work with the engine you wiont see a difference and thats not really the point it does help for better breathing a bit but the fact irt doesnt need replaced is the main reason
[/quote]


[quote name='artscot79' date='07 February 2010 - 12:35 PM' timestamp='1265545558' post='63916']
true very true personally ive used them depending on the car they can increase mpg but like you say most garages have them as part of the service anyway suppose it comes downb to the person really if you want that extra few bhp or not
[/quote]

cant argue with that. ive had my panel filter for about 15 months now and so far ive washed it 3 times. my mpg has increased ever so slightly with it but there is definetly no difference in power or that i can notice. i like to keep the filter clean, which is probably what gives me the higher mpg but it well worth it for 20mins work and overnight to dry out!

i bought mine second hand from ebay for pennies but it was like new, not a spot of dirt on it!
ford focus edge
Ive got a 57I kit of an escort (dont ask) on my focus and personally i think it just makes the car feel more responsive and feels like its smoother when your climbing through the revs in 2nd with your foot buried in the firewall where as going back to the stardard air box after a while i found the car sluggish lower down and i really missed the noise :P . Its a matter when its entirley personal taste i love my little knn roar think it suits my car and lets it breathe better (cold air feed fitted) if you want one go for it even if just for the noise I'm going to be getting one on my next car depending.

Mike
artscot79
[quote name='ford focus edge' date='07 February 2010 - 05:04 PM' timestamp='1265561677' post='63964']
Ive got a 57I kit of an escort (dont ask) on my focus and personally i think it just makes the car feel more responsive and feels like its smoother when your climbing through the revs in 2nd with your foot buried in the firewall where as going back to the stardard air box after a while i found the car sluggish lower down and i really missed the noise [img]http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif[/img] . Its a matter when its entirley personal taste i love my little knn roar think it suits my car and lets it breathe better (cold air feed fitted) if you want one go for it even if just for the noise I'm going to be getting one on my next car depending.

Mike
[/quote]

you got it set up with a heat shield covering the filter when i had a k n n 57i on an old car i had the filter with a shaped heatshield fitting round that protected it from the engine heat then i had 2 cold air feeds one was attatched to the inside of the front grill so you couldnbt see it was there and the second i had a section cut out of the bumper with a demon tweeks adapter bonded and colour coded into it all you could see was a rectangular split in the bumper with air feed attatched to the rear i admit the noise was nice and it was a bit more responsive than standard but the focus airbox can be converted easily first drop in a performance poanel filter then remove the noise supressor bit the small rectangular section on the airbox and you actually biuy a cold air feed designed to fit in here that runs down past the side of the battery to the front grill the airbox is now standard sealed and getting cold air then the main intake replace that with an rs intake
Slugsy
K and N 57i Kits and Cones of the like if i'm honest are all noise and no show on any car unless your running over something like 180-200bhp and work better on turbo engines. Its the noise that phsychologically makes you think its faster and smoother. People and companies claim that they get more air in etc which they probably do but with the way new cars are built with electronic fuel and air management the car will only put out the power the ecu is designed to give. Cone kits also make your car drink fuel.

Personally i'd only ever really use a panel filter on a stock car and do the cold air mod that ascot mentioned

If you want more power buy something like a bluefin or get a pro re-map done or something along with a panel filter
ford focus edge
[quote name='Slugsy' date='08 February 2010 - 08:07 AM' timestamp='1265615820' post='64102']
K and N 57i Kits and Cones of the like if i'm honest are all noise and no show on any car unless your running over something like 180-200bhp and work better on turbo engines. Its the noise that phsychologically makes you think its faster and smoother. People and companies claim that they get more air in etc which they probably do but with the way new cars are built with electronic fuel and air management the car will only put out the power the ecu is designed to give. Cone kits also make your car drink fuel.

Personally i'd only ever really use a panel filter on a stock car and do the cold air mod that ascot mentioned

If you want more power buy something like a bluefin or get a pro re-map done or something along with a panel filter
[/quote]

A bluefin for a 1.6 focus would give me at best 6bhp and 14 l/b of torque for around £300 id rather cut of my man parts than part with that amount of cash for tiny gains. Chips and remaps are best for turbo's, tdi's and highley modded cars that way u spend about 400 but acctually get a big difference from it (car/mod depending). My cone kit has hardly effected my fuel economy (currently around 32mpg at a estimate) its gone down by about 2mpg if that. Its set up so there is a head sheild, good supply of cold air so its not like half of these chav racer boy faggot waggons that they just plonk anywhere and leave sucking in nothing but warm air.

All that i have put on my car though most importantly can be completly removed with no trace what so ever where as modding the air box is ovious as hell lol. The only items i have put on this car that cant be removed are my leather seats (sold the old ones) and im soon to be fitting some parking sensors the rest can all be removed lights, stero etc.

If you set up a 57i kit properly and use common sence your laffing if you were serious about power youd get a carbonfibre enclosed kit by pipercross, take out a foglight fit the feed in the gap and use that or cut a hole in the lower grill on the bumper etc.

Mike
Slugsy
[quote name='ford focus edge' date='08 February 2010 - 10:32 AM' timestamp='1265624548' post='64116']
A bluefin for a 1.6 focus would give me at best 6bhp and 14 l/b of torque for around £300 id rather cut of my man parts than part with that amount of cash for tiny gains. Chips and remaps are best for turbo's, tdi's and highley modded cars that way u spend about 400 but acctually get a big difference from it (car/mod depending). My cone kit has hardly effected my fuel economy (currently around 32mpg at a estimate) its gone down by about 2mpg if that. Its set up so there is a head sheild, good supply of cold air so its not like half of these chav racer boy faggot waggons that they just plonk anywhere and leave sucking in nothing but warm air.

All that i have put on my car though most importantly can be completly removed with no trace what so ever where as modding the air box is ovious as hell lol. The only items i have put on this car that cant be removed are my leather seats (sold the old ones) and im soon to be fitting some parking sensors the rest can all be removed lights, stero etc.

If you set up a 57i kit properly and use common sence your laffing if you were serious about power youd get a carbonfibre enclosed kit by pipercross, take out a foglight fit the feed in the gap and use that or cut a hole in the lower grill on the bumper etc.

Mike
[/quote]


Or a Carbon Dynamics enclosed air filter. I was mearly given opinions....and as for the bluefin...it worked well on my ST170 and gave me quite a bit more torque....hence why i also suggested a remap instead for a different car.

As for fuel consumption once again i am going by previous experience. I fitted an enclosed filter kit to my Leon Cupra R and it drank fuel like an alcoholic drinking sprits! I have always found perosnally that panel filters and the Carbon Dynamics BMC enclosed filter worked better though than previous attempts with cones.

Putting a cold air feed onto the standard air box is also hardly severly modifying it either.

So i'd appreciate it in future that if you disagree with something others have said that instead of shouting them down and saying they're wrong that maybe you approach it in a slightly more diplomatic way. Everyone has their own opinions.

Rant over

Slug
ford focus edge
[quote name='Slugsy' date='08 February 2010 - 10:52 AM' timestamp='1265625742' post='64119']
Or a Carbon Dynamics enclosed air filter. I was mearly given opinions....and as for the bluefin...it worked well on my ST170 and gave me quite a bit more torque....hence why i also suggested a remap instead for a different car.

As for fuel consumption once again i am going by previous experience. I fitted an enclosed filter kit to my Leon Cupra R and it drank fuel like an alcoholic drinking sprits! I have always found perosnally that panel filters and the Carbon Dynamics BMC enclosed filter worked better though than previous attempts with cones.

Putting a cold air feed onto the standard air box is also hardly severly modifying it either.

So i'd appreciate it in future that if you disagree with something others have said that instead of shouting them down and saying they're wrong that maybe you approach it in a slightly more diplomatic way. Everyone has their own opinions.

Rant over

Slug
[/quote]

Sorry if i came across that way im just so sick of people slating cone's to death and jump on pannel's as if there made of gold and murr when i genuinally struggle to see the difference in gains and losses with a proper set up cone package. I got my cone for £20 quid with a heat shield and a £12 bought me a new feed for it so for me to buy a pannel it would of been "un financally viable" (can't spell sorry) and true its not severly modding but you know how pickey some garages are when you want to trade in espesh when its your 1st car.

I will conceed that the amount of negative cone stories i have hurd myself is ofputting but so far im yet to be involved in one (touch wood).

On a different note what are st170's like to live with day to day on commute's etc i was genuinally concidering getting one in about a year's time but the insurance group 15 was a bit well offputting so i was leaning more towards the st fezzy (group 13) its worth saying either choice would be left standard.

Mike
Slugsy
I wasnt slating them I was just going by my previous experience. Unfortunately when you have a bad experience it tends to stick with you.


As far as commuting goes in the ST its suprisingly very good on fuel. On a motorway i get about 100miles to a quarter of a tank which i think is respectably quite good. However, on another note, around town i get between 70-80 to a quarter of a tank. Personally I prefer the focus st's but once again its persoanl preference. I know its 2 groups lower but dont think there is much difference in overall premiums.

Slug
artscot79
[quote name='ford focus edge' date='08 February 2010 - 11:38 AM' timestamp='1265628520' post='64124']
Sorry if i came across that way im just so sick of people slating cone's to death and jump on pannel's as if there made of gold and murr when i genuinally struggle to see the difference in gains and losses with a proper set up cone package. I got my cone for £20 quid with a heat shield and a £12 bought me a new feed for it so for me to buy a pannel it would of been "un financally viable" (can't spell sorry) and true its not severly modding but you know how pickey some garages are when you want to trade in espesh when its your 1st car.

I will conceed that the amount of negative cone stories i have hurd myself is ofputting but so far im yet to be involved in one (touch wood).

On a different note what are st170's like to live with day to day on commute's etc i was genuinally concidering getting one in about a year's time but the insurance group 15 was a bit well offputting so i was leaning more towards the st fezzy (group 13) its worth saying either choice would be left standard.

Mike
[/quote]

ive worked on many a car doing these mods theres a few reasons why cones are slated first the amount of cheap universal cones out there by big companies like max power for example they are not designed for the car they dont suck enough air and second they are made with poor materials that let particles into the engine that shouldnt get in there causing over time damage. the enclosed boxes are yet another con they do keep the air cool but the it can only filter as much air as it can fit into that small enclosed space on volume of air it takes in no more than a standard box would it is however cooler air so small gains of around 2.5 hp -4hp max will be gained i dont hate cones or enclosed boxes they have there purposes if set up correctly a standard cone fitted right and made for the car by a good company like k and n with a heat shield placed correctly to reflect the engine heat and a cold air feed in the right place will give similar gains and work just as well however it was tested and for example it was found a honda civic type r worked more effectively and gave the best gains from the standard box and a panel filter the 300-400 induction kits lost power the reason is when you sit still in traffic the engine temp increases and theres no forced air going into the cone so you get a power loss due to heat soak after a few minutes of driving the temp will go down and it will work as it should again. its really down to the person what they want and like but its a fact that many have been going out there spending 100 quid plus on induction kits while the manufacturer of them laughs youll never notice 2-4 hp and the noise makes you believe its now sportier and faster just like a guy can have a big bore on his car you hear it in the distance and it sounds like hes going fast till he passes you at 20mph. there are a lot of bad cone stories for the reasons ive stated spotty kids in corsas whacking on any old one they can get a hold of not setting them up right etc ive had a 1.2 corsa in with a cone from a subaru sti they think its gonna make more power somehow and ive had ones so cheap thet thay have holes in them and yes they were all in for running problems might have summat to do with the dodgy filter and the exhaust made from 3 bits from 3 different cars and the 2 universal back boxes welded onto the end i aint kidding
jimmyboiii
looks like ive posted a post thats touched a few nerves... sorry guys nd thanx for all your info nd experiances
ford focus edge
[quote name='Slugsy' date='08 February 2010 - 04:57 PM' timestamp='1265647659' post='64164']
I wasnt slating them I was just going by my previous experience. Unfortunately when you have a bad experience it tends to stick with you.


As far as commuting goes in the ST its suprisingly very good on fuel. On a motorway i get about 100miles to a quarter of a tank which i think is respectably quite good. However, on another note, around town i get between 70-80 to a quarter of a tank. Personally I prefer the focus st's but once again its persoanl preference. I know its 2 groups lower but dont think there is much difference in overall premiums.

Slug
[/quote]

Understood Slugsy anyway thats about a 1/3 more than my cus was getting out of his 57 plate st fiesta which irnoically got sold around your area, small world. I've got a feeling il end up with another focus chuft to bits with the one i have just wish it had more power. As for insurance il be around the 20 mark when i come to trade in so i was thinking that anything with st wrote on would be deluded dream :( youngest guy i know with one (his is the 225) works full time in an office and is 21 and he wont tell anyone his premium so im guessing its somthing stupid.

Artscot you know to much :P oj! A friend of mine currently has a red-top nova and his exhaust from the manifold back is a peice of scafold pipe (im not joking) welded to a corsa sport 1.6 back box with a vectra induction kit. No way in hell am i ever going near it period!. Then again it does give us something to have a giggle over when they have to pay more than the car is worth for a new engine sick but true.

Jimmyboiii youve just posted a topic where we all have massivley different views and experiances wouldant worry about it lol.

Mike
artscot79
[quote name='ford focus edge' date='08 February 2010 - 08:27 PM' timestamp='1265660239' post='64208']
Understood Slugsy anyway thats about a 1/3 more than my cus was getting out of his 57 plate st fiesta which irnoically got sold around your area, small world. I've got a feeling il end up with another focus chuft to bits with the one i have just wish it had more power. As for insurance il be around the 20 mark when i come to trade in so i was thinking that anything with st wrote on would be deluded dream [img]http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif[/img] youngest guy i know with one (his is the 225) works full time in an office and is 21 and he wont tell anyone his premium so im guessing its somthing stupid.

Artscot you know to much [img]http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif[/img] oj! A friend of mine currently has a red-top nova and his exhaust from the manifold back is a peice of scafold pipe (im not joking) welded to a corsa sport 1.6 back box with a vectra induction kit. No way in hell am i ever going near it period!. Then again it does give us something to have a giggle over when they have to pay more than the car is worth for a new engine sick but true.

Jimmyboiii youve just posted a topic where we all have massivley different views and experiances wouldant worry about it lol.

Mike
[/quote]

all i can say is that my sis had a peugeot 306 turbo m reg and that was 1200 a year on insurance with my mum as the main driver 30 yr no accidents my sis is 24 i know for a st my premium at 31 5yr no claims etc is 900+ ive found its usually very well off mummy and daddy who pay for it anyway yeah ive seen some dodgy jiobs thing is stand back and look at the car it looks good get under there nd have a good look theyre a bllomin mess i rarely do much with my cars i once spent excess of 4 grand modifying a xr3 and when it was written off not by me it was worth a hell of a lot less 1200 at the time i thought whats the point
ford focus edge
[quote name='artscot79' date='08 February 2010 - 09:12 PM' timestamp='1265662970' post='64211']
all i can say is that my sis had a peugeot 306 turbo m reg and that was 1200 a year on insurance with my mum as the main driver 30 yr no accidents my sis is 24 i know for a st my premium at 31 5yr no claims etc is 900+ ive found its usually very well off mummy and daddy who pay for it anyway yeah ive seen some dodgy jiobs thing is stand back and look at the car it looks good get under there nd have a good look theyre a bllomin mess i rarely do much with my cars i once spent excess of 4 grand modifying a xr3 and when it was written off not by me it was worth a hell of a lot less 1200 at the time i thought whats the point
[/quote]

My renewal this year was 950 with 3 points, 1years no claims. Your sister got taken the mick out of good and proper! thats on multycar though with my mum and dads cars on + them on my policy. Thats not declaring mod's though. Think il just get a 3dr zetec 2.0 esp or something then lol quite fancy a 2.0 or a tdci ghia with all the extras on ;)

Mike
artscot79
[quote name='ford focus edge' date='09 February 2010 - 07:09 PM' timestamp='1265741970' post='64304']
My renewal this year was 950 with 3 points, 1years no claims. Your sister got taken the mick out of good and proper! thats on multycar though with my mum and dads cars on + them on my policy. Thats not declaring mod's though. Think il just get a 3dr zetec 2.0 esp or something then lol quite fancy a 2.0 or a tdci ghia with all the extras on [img]http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif[/img]

Mike
[/quote]


its cos it was a 306 turbo with full leather interior dropped 40mm on 600 quid coilovers with full stainless exhaust and aftermarket alloys etc etc plus a remap and the boost was turned upa notch as well wouldnt have another diesel hate them just not the same as a petrol to me no matter whta ive had
ford focus edge
[quote name='artscot79' date='09 February 2010 - 08:06 PM' timestamp='1265745362' post='64308']
its cos it was a 306 turbo with full leather interior dropped 40mm on 600 quid coilovers with full stainless exhaust and aftermarket alloys etc etc plus a remap and the boost was turned upa notch as well wouldnt have another diesel hate them just not the same as a petrol to me no matter whta ive had
[/quote]

Fair does then lmao. My insurance wouldant touch me if i declared the cone and if i said id fitted leather seats etc theyd have a cron lol not worth it to me ive seen cat d focus's in the local scrapy and theres hardly any damage on them so either way if you have a tiny bump in ur car and go through the insurance chances are it would seem that it'l get written off and on the kind of roads i live on the kind of crash id have would be cat-c minimum.

Mike
Slugsy
[quote name='ford focus edge' date='09 February 2010 - 08:18 PM' timestamp='1265746134' post='64313']
Fair does then lmao. My insurance wouldant touch me if i declared the cone and if i said id fitted leather seats etc theyd have a cron lol not worth it to me ive seen cat d focus's in the local scrapy and theres hardly any damage on them so either way if you have a tiny bump in ur car and go through the insurance chances are it would seem that it'l get written off and on the kind of roads i live on the kind of crash id have would be cat-c minimum.

Mike
[/quote]

well my quote came in for renewal for end of this month at £790 for my st170. thats with elephant. i have been driving 7years but my partner is a learner and she is on a provisional. Thats comprehensive cover and only 2 years bonus as i was on a traders policy before! no one else can get anywhere near it!!
ford focus edge
[quote name='Slugsy' date='10 February 2010 - 09:23 AM' timestamp='1265793186' post='64364']
well my quote came in for renewal for end of this month at £790 for my st170. thats with elephant. i have been driving 7years but my partner is a learner and she is on a provisional. Thats comprehensive cover and only 2 years bonus as i was on a traders policy before! no one else can get anywhere near it!!
[/quote]

How the hell have you done that, ive just ran a quote up on churchill (sorry we cant complete this quote) ie sod off until ur 21 lol. Insurance is the worlds biggest piss take because they know you HAVE to have it so they charge over the moon for it when i get the money to im moving abroad stuff the uk its a expensive nanny state cack hole. Rant over.

Mike
Slugsy
[quote name='ford focus edge' date='10 February 2010 - 09:50 AM' timestamp='1265794808' post='64367']
How the hell have you done that, ive just ran a quote up on churchill (sorry we cant complete this quote) ie sod off until ur 21 lol. Insurance is the worlds biggest piss take because they know you HAVE to have it so they charge over the moon for it when i get the money to im moving abroad stuff the uk its a expensive nanny state cack hole. Rant over.

Mike
[/quote]

oh and i'm only 23 (24 in march) and my mrs is 21. I took an extra 500 voluntary excess but thats it.

I agree with moving abroad. My dad lives in greece and he pays £250 per year to insure his car. When they insure vehicles they insure just the vehicle for any driver! Not like here where its a particular driver to a particular car!!


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