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ahodgett
Occasionally on starting, the idle speed is very low and rough 500-700, accelerator doesn't work at all, and after a few moments grey smoke begins to come out of the exhaust. Sometimes suddenly it rectifies itself and off the car goes for a few more days. It usually only happens when engine is cold, but not always. Usually clears in under 5 minutes. Have done the press trip reset on starting but only gives D900 as DTC 01. It is geting more frequent, but am loath to go to garage with an intermittent fault. If this is unusual, is there any scanner I can buy to plug in which would tell me what's happening at the time it fails? Hope someone can throw some light on the problem?
Regards
Arthur Hodgett UK england.
artscot79
[quote name='ahodgett' date='21 May 2010 - 07:25 PM' timestamp='1274465701' post='82788']
Occasionally on starting, the idle speed is very low and rough 500-700, accelerator doesn't work at all, and after a few moments grey smoke begins to come out of the exhaust. Sometimes suddenly it rectifies itself and off the car goes for a few more days. It usually only happens when engine is cold, but not always. Usually clears in under 5 minutes. Have done the press trip reset on starting but only gives D900 as DTC 01. It is geting more frequent, but am loath to go to garage with an intermittent fault. If this is unusual, is there any scanner I can buy to plug in which would tell me what's happening at the time it fails? Hope someone can throw some light on the problem?
Regards
Arthur Hodgett UK england.
[/quote]


DTC d900 non specific canbus error! . Probably caused by tow-bar electrics even though genuine kit or battery being disconnected.

most garages will code scan the car for a lot less than ford and not all the codes will appear on the dash cluster so you could have the code 500-700 is way too low its usually 730 +/-30 rpm so its undershooting on idle by quite a bit for that brief period which can be down to many things injectors diesel pump etc etc
ahodgett
[quote name='artscot79' date='21 May 2010 - 07:52 PM' timestamp='1274470972' post='82798']
DTC d900 non specific canbus error! . Probably caused by tow-bar electrics even though genuine kit or battery being disconnected.

most garages will code scan the car for a lot less than ford and not all the codes will appear on the dash cluster so you could have the code 500-700 is way too low its usually 730 +/-30 rpm so its undershooting on idle by quite a bit for that brief period which can be down to many things injectors diesel pump etc etc
[/quote]
Not replied before, so don't know if I should edit anything or not?
Thanks for your prompt comment, I don't have towbar electrics and it's the fact that it runs perfectly most of the time, that is puzzling. Have ordered a scanner from ebay, (ELM 327 scan tool with a usb connection) and will try cleaning the idle control valve and see if things improve, before it arrives.
mintalkin
grey smoke is a sign of unburnt fuel,if it only happens when cold it could be a glow plug thats not working and only three clynders are getting a preheat causing the roughness untill the temp comes up and the fourth clynder kicks back in.
ahodgett
[quote name='mintalkin' date='22 May 2010 - 07:58 AM' timestamp='1274514505' post='82821']
grey smoke is a sign of unburnt fuel,if it only happens when cold it could be a glow plug thats not working and only three clynders are getting a preheat causing the roughness untill the temp comes up and the fourth clynder kicks back in.
[/quote]
Thanks for that, my thinking has been that the glow plug is only necessary for the first few revolutions, as the heat builds up quickly, am I mistaken in this? Also pressing the accelerator is exactly as if it was a broken cable, instead of a pot, there is no discernable change at all, it's as if it was disconnected. I agree unburnt fuel is getting through, but it's the possible things which I need to check that is beating me, i.e. a scenario for the symptoms. Many thanks again. As it's at start up I have ignored temperature sensors, is this a valid assumption for example? The reset test showed no fault codes, I'm assuming, until I get a code reader, there are none, as the engine management light never comes on, so it not something the system can detect? So that's my thinking thus far, for what it's worth. Any advice or thoughts about it are very welcome.
ahodgett
[quote name='ahodgett' date='22 May 2010 - 08:26 AM' timestamp='1274516209' post='82823']
Thanks for that, my thinking has been that the glow plug is only necessary for the first few revolutions, as the heat builds up quickly, am I mistaken in this? Also pressing the accelerator is exactly as if it was a broken cable, instead of a pot, there is no discernable change at all, it's as if it was disconnected. I agree unburnt fuel is getting through, but it's the possible things which I need to check that is beating me, i.e. a scenario for the symptoms. Many thanks again. As it's at start up I have ignored temperature sensors, is this a valid assumption for example? The reset test showed no fault codes, I'm assuming, until I get a code reader, there are none, as the engine management light never comes on, so it not something the system can detect? So that's my thinking thus far, for what it's worth. Any advice or thoughts about it are very welcome.
[/quote]
Have now stripped down the throttle body to which are attached the MAP sensor and the Inlet air temperature sensor. The first thing I noticed was it was very oily, on the inlet side to the throttle body, looked like engine oil, so cleaned it out, cleaned temperature sensor which was quite coked up, MAP looked ok, there appears to be nothing to it, just a small orifice. Anyway put it all back together, and gave the car a good run (20 miles or so) and it appeared fine, thought I had cracked it till I came to it this morning and it started at normal idle, but no effect from accelerator, tried a few times and now it won't even start. Is there one item I should check, one item which would kill it all? Also, am I correct in that the glow plugs would not be the problem if it runs for more than say 10 seconds?
mintalkin
sorry should have said combustion up to temp which usually is under 15 secs,
ahodgett
[quote name='mintalkin' date='24 May 2010 - 03:55 PM' timestamp='1274715918' post='83012']
sorry should have said combustion up to temp which usually is under 15 secs,
[/quote]
Thanks for that. Anyway today have stripped down the EGR valve, what an awkward job, my hands are torn to shreds. Found it would stick fully open, the spring return needed some assistance, so cleaned it thoroughly and used a bit of WD40 which I cleaned off before re-assembling. This could be the problem!! I wonder if anyone knows what the state of the valve should be at various times? The cam which actuates the valve has a profile so I assume the actuator is linear and the valve responds according to a curve of some kind. If it was stuck open at startup, that would explain zero manifold pressure, excess fuel etc. I am assuming that no engine managenment light means no sensor failure and it must be something like the EGR. Anyway we will have to wait and see. In one way I'm enjoying the learning curve, but may despair if this doaen't work.
ahodgett
[quote name='ahodgett' date='24 May 2010 - 04:59 PM' timestamp='1274719758' post='83023']
Thanks for that. Anyway today have stripped down the EGR valve, what an awkward job, my hands are torn to shreds. Found it would stick fully open, the spring return needed some assistance, so cleaned it thoroughly and used a bit of WD40 which I cleaned off before re-assembling. This could be the problem!! I wonder if anyone knows what the state of the valve should be at various times? The cam which actuates the valve has a profile so I assume the actuator is linear and the valve responds according to a curve of some kind. If it was stuck open at startup, that would explain zero manifold pressure, excess fuel etc. I am assuming that no engine managenment light means no sensor failure and it must be something like the EGR. Anyway we will have to wait and see. In one way I'm enjoying the learning curve, but may despair if this doaen't work.
[/quote]
Just thought I would let everyine know that the problem has gone away completely since stripping down and overhauling the EGR. My reasoning finally was, seeing the engine management system was reporting no faults, probably all sensors were within range etc. The EGR stuck open would ensure a vacuum never got established in the inlet manifold, hence the problem. Not sure how long the EGR will last, we will have to wait and see.
hawker
Well done, glad it seems to be all sorted.

I've been wanting to clean the EGR valve for quite some time now. I've no idea where it is, let alone how to do it! A guide would be very much appreciated (I have a 2006 1.6TDCi, but i assume it would be a similar job to your 2.0TDCi?)
ahodgett
I got the Haynes manual and it gives reasonable instructions. Remove windscreen wipers and the plastic cover and tray below them to get at the very rear of the engine. You need allen keys and torx keys to get everything apart. It took me about 3 hours, (no spares needed), but then I hadn'nt done it before, but it is awkward leaning right over the engine for a long time, and large hands don't help as the plastic support for some pipes is right in the way. If you give me your email address, I can send you the details.
hawker
[quote name='ahodgett' date='16 June 2010 - 09:39 AM' timestamp='1276680573' post='85267']
I got the Haynes manual and it gives reasonable instructions. Remove windscreen wipers and the plastic cover and tray below them to get at the very rear of the engine. You need allen keys and torx keys to get everything apart. It took me about 3 hours, (no spares needed), but then I hadn'nt done it before, but it is awkward leaning right over the engine for a long time, and large hands don't help as the plastic support for some pipes is right in the way. If you give me your email address, I can send you the details.
[/quote]

Thanks very much for that, but I have the Hayes manual somewhere, so I'll try and dig it out and have a look in there.
Is it actually referred to as EGR valve in the manual, as terminology can differ occasionally?
ahodgett
It's called EGR solenoid valve in section 4B pages 2&3. The only step I didn't follow was 22. Undoing the clamp is a bad idea, as you would need special tools to recrimp it. Much easier to just unbolt the flange on the inlet manifold. On rebolting it all up, didn't tighten anything fully until it was all oriented and in place. There is a allen cap head screw right underneath the EGR valve which needs the allen key shortening a bit to get it into the screw to loosen it. Hope this helps
hawker
Marvellous!
Thanks for the help. ;)
AndrewC
Hi there. I am also going to clean my EGR valve and was ready to go and remove the EGR clamp as described in the Haynes manual. Thanks for the tip! By the flange to the inlet manifold, do you mean the two torx bolts securing the EGR pipe to the manifold cover as in Fig 9.3a in 4A.8 in the Haynes manual? I presume you then removed the EGR pipe and valve / solenoid as one unit and cleaned it that way?

I also plan on using the EGR cleaner from Wynns. Can anyone advise what I should disconnect and where this spray should be sprayed into on a 1.6tdci?

Thanks
Andrew


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