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MrrNoName
Hi everyone, i need your help.

ive noticed that when driving my 2006 1.8 focus tdci with 33,000 miles

when in high revs (3000 plus) blackish grey smoke comes out of the exhaust practially every time, this only seems to happen when at or above 3000 revs. why would this be?

if you drive it around town as you never hit 3000 revs you see no smoke at all.

maybe this is normal for a turbo diesel?? I dunno as ive never had one before. theres no loss of power it pulls very very strongly and I can definetly feel the turbo working.

if you rev it above 3000 when its in neutral theres no smoke.

thanks for any replys in advance :)
H3lly
Diesel or not that's sounds way too much smoke. I read on other ford forums about excessive black smoke from diesels and 9/10 times it was a clogged EGR valve(exhaust gas recirculation). The remedy is some [url="http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/1/1/8/4/5/2/webimg/256187385_tp.jpg"]Wynns EGR 3 cleaner[/url]. Available from any good motor factors. You tube have some video tutorials on the procedure for cleaning the EGR valve, worth having a look at if you think your up to doing this job yourself.
MrrNoName
[quote name='H3lly' date='08 September 2010 - 12:53 PM' timestamp='1283949801' post='96440']
Diesel or not that's sounds way too much smoke. I read on other ford forums about excessive black smoke from diesels and 9/10 times it was a clogged EGR valve(exhaust gas recirculation). The remedy is some [url="http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/1/1/8/4/5/2/webimg/256187385_tp.jpg"]Wynns EGR 3 cleaner[/url]. Available from any good motor factors. You tube have some video tutorials on the procedure for cleaning the EGR valve, worth having a look at if you think your up to doing this job yourself.
[/quote]

would this show up as a DTC?

plugged the car in today and scanned for code, NO permenent, No pending, No stored

hmm
mintalkin
it could be a clogged egr valve or it could just be a build up of carbon in the exhaust,most ford diesels put out smoke at high revs, try giving the car a good thrash to blow out any carbon in the exhaust to see if the situation improves.
MrrNoName
[quote name='mintalkin' date='08 September 2010 - 04:23 PM' timestamp='1283958825' post='96466']
it could be a clogged egr valve or it could just be a build up of carbon in the exhaust,most ford diesels put out smoke at high revs, try giving the car a good thrash to blow out any carbon in the exhaust to see if the situation improves.
[/quote]

tried that this morning with my dad driving behind me to see the smoke, did about 10 miles down the motorway. apparently it smoked visably constantly during heavy acceleration but stopped as soon as I let off the accel pedal. im guessing if it was carbon desposits they would all be blown out after 5 mins of driving?

the exhaust has lots of carbon in it (its black and u can scrape it off with yr fingers) but i thought this was normal for a diesel with no dpf?

where is the EGR valve on the 1.8 and how easy / expensive is it to clean or change? whats best to clean it with, can it be damaged when cleaning?
hillmangimp
[quote name='MrrNoName' date='08 September 2010 - 04:34 PM' timestamp='1283959460' post='96468']
tried that this morning with my dad driving behind me to see the smoke, did about 10 miles down the motorway. apparently it smoked visably constantly during heavy acceleration but stopped as soon as I let off the accel pedal. im guessing if it was carbon desposits they would all be blown out after 5 mins of driving?

the exhaust has lots of carbon in it (its black and u can scrape it off with yr fingers) but i thought this was normal for a diesel with no dpf?

where is the EGR valve on the 1.8 and how easy / expensive is it to clean or change? whats best to clean it with, can it be damaged when cleaning?
[/quote]

It possibly wouldn't blow out all the carbon deposits depending on how much was in there. If the car is driving round town a lot then particles will accumulate and only get blown out at higher revs. 3K is high for a diesel and non dpf diesels will smoke under heavy acceleration. The fact that it is not smoking all the time will rule out problems such as injectors. With regard to it being an egr valve, are there any other symptoms such as running faults? If not then I wouldn't worry to much at this stage. As another poster has suggested, Ford diesels are known to chuck out smoke when being pushed hard.
MrrNoName
[quote name='hillmangimp' date='08 September 2010 - 04:57 PM' timestamp='1283960844' post='96479']
It possibly wouldn't blow out all the carbon deposits depending on how much was in there. If the car is driving round town a lot then particles will accumulate and only get blown out at higher revs. 3K is high for a diesel and non dpf diesels will smoke under heavy acceleration. The fact that it is not smoking all the time will rule out problems such as injectors. With regard to it being an egr valve, are there any other symptoms such as running faults? If not then I wouldn't worry to much at this stage. As another poster has suggested, Ford diesels are known to chuck out smoke when being pushed hard.
[/quote]


thanks hillmangimp, you seem to have the same oppinion as my dad.

theres no running problems, the car goes very well. pulls very hard, does high speeds fine. the engine does seem to vibrate a little when revving it in neutral at 1500 revs, but is fine below and above 1500. not sure if thats connected though as its always done that. its been scanned for DTC using an obd2 reader and none were found. I might take it for a 100 mile trip saturday and see if its like this after because its been doing plently of short journeys recently :P

I only noticed the smoke yesterday in another cars headlights at night, you cant see it when driving during the day as the smoke is behind and low to the ground. i dont know how long its been doing this.
catch
interesting read by Wynns on how the ERG works, and how their ERG cleaning product works [with diagram/photos/videos ]

[url="http://www.wynnoil.co.uk/products-wynns-featured-egr3.htm"]SEE HERE[/url]
MrrNoName
[quote name='catch' date='08 September 2010 - 05:28 PM' timestamp='1283962723' post='96486']
interesting read by Wynns on how the ERG works, and how their ERG cleaning product works [with diagram/photos/videos ]

[url="http://www.wynnoil.co.uk/products-wynns-featured-egr3.htm"]SEE HERE[/url]
[/quote]

hmm, dunno if i like the idea of spraying something into my engine when its running, i might see if i can clean it by hand or fit a new valve? any1 know how much they are?
H3lly
There's a video on youtube showing EGR cleaning, well worth a look at the procedure involved. It's in french, but you can hear and see the difference (buckets of carbon deposits)after he has used the wynns egr cleaner. Here is the [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DhYk3Mm8HQ"]link[/url].
hillmangimp
I only noticed the smoke yesterday in another cars headlights at night, you cant see it when driving during the day as the smoke is behind and low to the ground. i dont know how long its been doing this.
[/quote]

Oh yes, I remember the time fondly when I looked in my rear view mirror whilst overtaking on the M1 and noticing the fine dust that was coming from my car exhaust! Its more noticable at night for the reasons you describe above.
MrrNoName
quick update.

Ive noticed that the smoke is commin out regardless of what revs the engine is at, its whenever the accelerator pedal is pressed down fairly far or the engine is climing. ive got it booked in to FORDS so they can check it out.

I really hope this is not a big problem, the engine has only done 33,000 miles :(
metalmanst
have u tryed checking air filter condition & when was it last serviced .
Leemaxd
[quote name='MrrNoName' date='11 September 2010 - 08:20 AM' timestamp='1284192636' post='96843']
quick update.

Ive noticed that the smoke is commin out regardless of what revs the engine is at, its whenever the accelerator pedal is pressed down fairly far or the engine is climing. ive got it booked in to FORDS so they can check it out.

I really hope this is not a big problem, the engine has only done 33,000 miles :(
[/quote]

Trust me sort it yourself ford are a waste of time, mine went to ford three times it's a 09 with 20k, all they do is slightly clean it which improves it for a couple of days and the problem just comes back, they will tell you they have programmed something to sort it.
They just don't want to spend the time on it, they should give me a new egr valve under warrenty but they won't admit they are a problem.
When I get a min I am gonna give that spray ago.
If that don't work just get a friend mechanic to put me in a good quality egr valve.
MrrNoName
[quote name='Leemaxd' date='11 September 2010 - 10:52 AM' timestamp='1284198126' post='96857']
Trust me sort it yourself ford are a waste of time, mine went to ford three times it's a 09 with 20k, all they do is slightly clean it which improves it for a couple of days and the problem just comes back, they will tell you they have programmed something to sort it.
They just don't want to spend the time on it, they should give me a new egr valve under warrenty but they won't admit they are a problem.
When I get a min I am gonna give that spray ago.
If that don't work just get a friend mechanic to put me in a good quality egr valve.
[/quote]

slightly clean what?

are u having the same problem? if you try the spray let me know how it goes
catch
[quote name='MrrNoName' date='11 September 2010 - 11:59 AM' timestamp='1284202199' post='96860']
slightly clean what?

[/quote]

Your not paying attention are you :D
Leemaxd
[quote name='MrrNoName' date='11 September 2010 - 10:59 AM' timestamp='1284202199' post='96860']
slightly clean what?

are u having the same problem? if you try the spray let me know how it goes
[/quote]

They just slightly clean the egr valve, yea got the same problem and the car shuddering
MrrNoName
lol catch :lol:

cnt they just put a new one on? how much is that lol?

could it be a bad injector overfueling, heard this can cause these symptoms too?
Leemaxd
Brought some of the wynns egr cleaner today only 6 well worth a go, gonna use it one night this week I will let you know if it works.
MrrNoName
yeh ok cool.

the car went to fords last week about the smoking issue. ford couldent find anything wrong with the engine and said diesels (esp without dpf's) do smoke and it was noticable but within limits.

they updated the PCM as there was an update available but its still the same :P

basically they couldent find anything wrong lol
mross
I have recently used Wynns EGR cleaned after hearing good reviews on here and the net and i can say it really does the job well, ok its never going to be as effective as taking off the EGR valve and cleaning it by hand but its still a great product and well worth doing. I have decided to use this once a year as part of the car's service.
Leemaxd
[quote name='mross' date='29 September 2010 - 12:33 PM' timestamp='1285763000' post='99112']
I have recently used Wynns EGR cleaned after hearing good reviews on here and the net and i can say it really does the job well, ok its never going to be as effective as taking off the EGR valve and cleaning it by hand but its still a great product and well worth doing. I have decided to use this once a year as part of the car's service.
[/quote]


Yea same as I am proberly gonna do it every six months seems it's so cheap and easy to do.
Leemaxd
[quote name='MrrNoName' date='24 September 2010 - 08:46 AM' timestamp='1285317372' post='98516']
yeh ok cool.

the car went to fords last week about the smoking issue. ford couldent find anything wrong with the engine and said diesels (esp without dpf's) do smoke and it was noticable but within limits.

they updated the PCM as there was an update available but its still the same :P

basically they couldent find anything wrong lol
[/quote]


Don't wanna say it but told you so, they are hopeless really. As I said before my car went in three times and they kept saying there was no problem, brought that wynns stuff and it sorted it, just can't understand why they as mechanics can't do something the same.
MrrNoName
[quote name='Leemaxd' date='29 September 2010 - 03:05 PM' timestamp='1285768545' post='99128']
Don't wanna say it but told you so, they are hopeless really. As I said before my car went in three times and they kept saying there was no problem, brought that wynns stuff and it sorted it, just can't understand why they as mechanics can't do something the same.
[/quote]


how do you use the wynns stuff? anyone done it on the 1.8tdci? what do i have to take apart to spray it in?
Leemaxd
What year is yours?
MrrNoName
[quote name='Leemaxd' date='29 September 2010 - 06:54 PM' timestamp='1285782245' post='99164']
What year is yours?
[/quote]

2006
mross
I sprayed it straight into the air intake in short bursts at a time, whilst getting my brother in law to hold the revs at about 2000rpm, just take off the air filter and spray straight in but remember to leave the MAF multiplug connected though and spray it in after the MAF sensor and not before it as it can cause the engine warning light to come on. Use the whole can and don't worry about the engine revving up as you spray it in either you will notice the engine running smoother and smoother as you get down the can, it really is great stuff.
Leemaxd
You can do it both ways but on a tdci I was told it's better to take off the hose on the rear left hand side of the engine and spray it in there, because it gets to the egr valve better.
Basicailly where the intercaller puts air into.
That's how I done mine a 1.8 tdci.


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