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keith-focus
Hello All, I am new to this board so please forgive me if this questions has been asked before.

I have a 2007 Focus 1.8 TDCI with about 70K on the clock. I have owned it about two months and it's been fine.

The other day it started but when I went to pull away it stalled. I thought it was just me being harsh with the clutch. Anyway it happened again later that day and then the engine management light came on every time it started. It was ok for a day or so and the EML when off. Then it felt a bit lumpy after another start and the EML was back on again.

Next I parked for about an hour and when to start, it started ok but the engine revs would not increase when I pressed the pedal. In fact they dropped according to the rev counted ever so slightly (not enough to stall). I think this is what must have happened when I was trying to pull away on previous occasions.

Can anyone please help with this problem?
MrrNoName
best bet with something like this is to wait until the EML is back on and scan it for codes, one or more will be stored. if you havnt got a scanner you could get a garage to do it however the price of a basic tool is about the same as a garage charges and its a really handy thing to have.

I think there is also a way to get the dash display to show any codes stored, look at the sticky in this section of the forums. The code will point you in the correct direction as to what is wrong :D
keith-focus
Thank you very much for your reply.

Here's an update

The EML came on again and I did the dashboard trick but when I scrolled to DTC codes, it showed "none".

The fault is now when I exceed approx 3000 rpm the engine stutters and then I have loss of power. It crawls up to 60 MPH but have to change down a gear on the slightest incline (can't get above 3000 rpm). The fault clears after I turn off the engine and restart until I exceed 3000 rpm again. (At least it's repeatable, unlike my last car (a Mazda), that had a intermittent fault, which the garage kept coming back with "no fault found")

I will follow your advice and book it into a garage this time and investigate buying a code reader.

Thanks again for your time, Keith
Wizz
I have had a similar problem on my 59 plate Focus Zetec S 1.8 petrol, since it was new.

Sometime when I start the engine, the tickover is half what it normally is, and revs wont come in until I put my foot to the floor, upon which the revs go through the roof.
The car has been back twice to the Ford Dealer I bought the car from, and twice to my local Ford Dealer who will service my car.

Neither of these Dealers have solved the problem, and a first service has had the effect of making this problem slightly worse. Unfortunately, this fault also reports no errors.
I'm beginning to wonder if it has anything to do with the "drive by wire" system my car has.

The car is going back in next week for them to have another go !
keith-focus
Quick update.

Took it to an independent (non-Ford) garage and they diagnosed Mass air flow sensor. They ordered a patented part and fitted it. The air filter was also changed as this was filthy (they said it could have been causing the air flow to be restricted in the first place, but of course the plug in diagnostic tool only pointed to the mass air flow sensor and nobody bothered checking the air filter).
On the way home the car lost pulling power again when I attempted to overtake on a dual carriageway and after stopping shortly afterwards to re-set the engine limp home mode (switching the engine off and re-starting)the EML came on again. Phoned the garage next morning and went to get it re-diagnosed. Showed mass air flow sensor fault again (reading "above upper limits" when the car was reved according to his kit, not sure if that was the exact same reading as last time). Garage baffled but ordered original Ford manufactured part to see if that would fix the problem. Awaiting Garage to get Ford part... will keep you posted.

PS I did have a thought it could be the EGR valve faulty, letting too much air through but have not suggested this to the garage as I would hope the Diagnostic tool would pick this up and they thought I was trying to tell them their job.
MrrNoName
argh! things like this can be so annoying, i had a fiesta that kept flagging "throttle position sensor out of range" once.. changed the throttle position sensor but the problem didnt go away. unfortunatly the codes only point to where the car sees the problem and not to exactly what is wrong.

interesting problem, keep us updated
catch
This is the problem with cars these days. I read stories like this on a weekly basis, garages not having a clue really just buying stuff in, not cured...OK we will buy something else.

Now I've been lucky up to press with all the cars I've owned, but then you start thinking....the law of averages is bound to kick in sometime. :rolleyes:
keith-focus
Update …

After waiting for over a week to get a genuine Ford mass air flow sensor replacement, it was fitted yesterday and I still have the same fault. The fault code read by garage still points at the mass air flow sensor. They checked the wiring and pipes for leaks but everything seemed ok. The only thing they can suggest it to take it to Ford main dealer to hook it up to their diagnostic kit and see what it says.

Will keep you posted… Keith
MrrNoName
[quote name='keith-focus' timestamp='1287476073' post='101395']
Update …

After waiting for over a week to get a genuine Ford mass air flow sensor replacement, it was fitted yesterday and I still have the same fault. The fault code read by garage still points at the mass air flow sensor. They checked the wiring and pipes for leaks but everything seemed ok. The only thing they can suggest it to take it to Ford main dealer to hook it up to their diagnostic kit and see what it says.

Will keep you posted… Keith
[/quote]

sorry to hear that buddy, faults like this can be a real nightmare to get rid of!
when you take it to the main dealers be warey of them blind telling you a PCM update will fix your problem. PCM updates can in some instances correct issues but ford tend to blanket suggest this to all problems as a first solution. its a fast easy way for them to make £100

true you might have to accept them doing it before they actually investigate the problem but im just giving you a heads-up this might be what they say when you go in :P

keep us posted :)
keith-focus
Update..

I dropped it at the Ford garage for the afternoon but they only managed half hour of diagnostics (but they did have time to clean it inside and out!!) and the came back with MAS and throttle position sensor. I think the problems are related as both started on the same day (unless I am really unlucky!) Reading other posts the throttle position sensor does make sense.(as MrrNoName suggested in earlier posts, thanks)

So I've still got the problem and needed to rebook.

It's booked in all day on Wednesday (so they can complete the other half hour of diagnostics!) and will let you know of the outcome.

(I've also relpyed on Lugo's who has a "diesel with loss of power")

Keith
keith-focus
Good news, the car is fixed!!

Took it back to the Ford main dealer for the day and they printed out some circuit diagrams. They tested the mass air flow sensor (MAF) and throttle position sensor and both were ok. They tested the wiring and found an incorrect voltage at pin 3 of the MAF. They traced this back to pin 14 on the battery junction box, where they found a bad connection. They "repaired and made good the connector". Charged me 94 quid and washed my car a second time in a week.
Gave the car thrash around and seems ok.

Moral of this story is look beyond the obvious and get it checked out at a proper garage. (Even if it costs a bit more, it could save you time)

Thanks to everyone for reading and posting replies.

Hope someone else reading this in future will benefit from my solution.

Keith
catch
There you go a decent newbie, who comes back with the fix unlike some....stick around mate :)

Glad it's sorted for you at last. Out of interest how much did the supposed fixes by the independent garage cost collectively? And what did your visits to the main dealer cost in total?
keith-focus
Thanks Catch for your post and questions. Its bit of a long story so here goes...

I had only bought the car two months ago from an independent garage who gives a six month warrantee. The warrantee is with "Autoprotect" so basically if your car goes wrong you deal with the warrantee company and not the garage. (So the garage just sells you the car and gets rid of you, clever!!) I have Gold protection that gives up to £1000 of protection (in one claim).

However, once you phone them up you find the small print. First of all you must deal with their approved garage, which is any Nationwide Autocentre.
Then they will not pay for the diagnostics only the repair. My diagnostic was £49 and they ordered the first MAF. The garage then agreed the price (which I was not told) with the Warrantee Company. When the part arrived they decided I also needed an air filter which was not agreed with the Warrantee Company, so that cost me another £20. The MAF and air filter did not fix the problem, so the garage ordered an original Ford MAF. That was fitted to my car at no cost to me (but I don't know if the Warrantee Company were contacted and paid for). This second MAF still did not fix the problem. Here's the catch. The warrantee company will not pay for the new parts if it didn't fix the problem. (Which is I assume to stop people totally renewing their engine parts at the warrantee companies expense) So the garage know that it didn't fix the problem but I'm not telling the warrantee company or I will get a bill for two MAF's. The garage told me to get it diagnosed at a Ford main dealer.

The Ford main dealer charged me one hour’s labour, £94, to diagnose, which of course I could not reclaim and also Warrantee Company would know it wasn't fixed at the first garage. The Ford main dealer fixed the fault and didn't charge me any extra. (I have dealt with Autoprotect before with my last car and when it goes to a main dealer they will only pay up to £50/hour labour for a repair)

Therefore it cost me £49 + £20 + £94 = £163 and a whole lot of time off! Ever think you've been had!! (At least the car works now and if I had bought it private, although it would have been cheaper, I would have to stump up all costs)

Well you did ask :)

Keith
Dead Focus
[b][u]2005 Focus 2.0TDCI [/u][/b]

Hi and thanks for this topic!, I am also a noobie!,

I have a similar problem with my wife's 05 focus. For sometime now she has dropped the kids off at school and then called me reporting a problem in that the car was starting but not reving. I think on some occassions the focus may have not even started but I cant be sure.
However the problem became a bit more serious yesterday when it cut out on her and when restarted again it wouldnt rev leaving her stranded. She has informed me that she started it several times but it would not rev, infact it felt slightly lumpy at idle and on one occassion the revs did raise slighlty but in no reflection to the accelertor which was being planted on the floor!(Bless her!)
Then like on previous occasions the accelerator began working after turning on the car on and off and she drove home.
I have noticed that since owning the car 1 year ago the tick over seems a little lumpy, I am must stress this hard to detect and the revs arent pariculary low to be the apparant reason.

So! Is this problem likely to be similar to this topic?, but either way do I need to get the garage to check the following?

1.Mass Air Flow Sensor.
2.Throttle Position Sensor.
3.Correct voltage at the PINS of the MAF and battery junction box.

Any help would be appreciated as I also have a problem of taking cars to garages and finding the fault is not diagnosed!!. I also have to lend her my 99 focus work horse, gutted!.

Thank you
WHITEyy118
This is the exact problem I have (Engine Systems Fault) and I've had it for about 2-3 weeks now. When the problem first appeared I didn't know how serious it was, because of the warning light, so I didn't drive it. So I contacted a local Ford dealer were I booked it in for a Major service (as it was due for one, 37.5k) and they said they'd look into the problem for me.

But by the time I had it serviced the light vanished so problem fixed, at least I thought it was. After the service they informed me I had a leaking shock absorber and it'd need fixing soon. So I was going to look around for prices but oh no, the ESF light came back. So I booked it back in asap at the same garage for the shock absorber and they said they'd look into the light.

So when I dropped it off they asked what light it was. I explained and even drew a picture for the man to then say,"Oh, it's telling you that you have a bulb out". I was amazed that he said that as I thought it was to do with the EGR Valve (which I still do believe) and I explained how I was getting A LOT of white smoke upon startup, rough idle and lack of power (hardly exceed 2000rpm). He then spoke to someone and said it could be the engine cleaning itself and it was nothing. By the sounds of it he knew nothing.

Anyway I recieved a phone call later that day to say the shock absorber was replaced and that they think it's the glow plug relay. So I agreed for them to change it at a cost of £120. Then about an hour later I recieve another phone call to say that after it was replaced it didn't fix the problem so they'll put my one back and not charge me. LOL. All of that was done without using the diagnostic tool which they will now use and charge me £80 tomorrow. 2nd time lucky I hope. But the trouble is the light doesn't stay on :S

Sorry for long post but I wanted to tell the whole story. It's just funny how they don't know what it is yet I bet they have several similar cases before.
catch
[quote]I had only bought the car two months ago from an independent garage who gives a six month warrantee. The warrantee is with "Autoprotect" so basically if your car goes wrong you deal with the warrantee company and not the garage. (So the garage just sells you the car and gets rid of you, clever!!) I have Gold protection that gives up to £1000 of protection (in one claim).

However, once you phone them up you find the small print. First of all you must deal with their approved garage, which is any Nationwide Autocentre.
Then they will not pay for the diagnostics only the repair. My diagnostic was £49 and they ordered the first MAF. The garage then agreed the price (which I was not told) with the Warrantee Company. When the part arrived they decided I also needed an air filter which was not agreed with the Warrantee Company, so that cost me another £20. The MAF and air filter did not fix the problem, so the garage ordered an original Ford MAF. That was fitted to my car at no cost to me (but I don't know if the Warrantee Company were contacted and paid for). This second MAF still did not fix the problem. Here's the catch. The warrantee company will not pay for the new parts if it didn't fix the problem. (Which is I assume to stop people totally renewing their engine parts at the warrantee companies expense) So the garage know that it didn't fix the problem but I'm not telling the warrantee company or I will get a bill for two MAF's.[/quote]

So the warranty company stipulate which garage group it goes to for repairs. And when their agent the garage fails to repair the car. Any new components their agent fits that as it turns out does not fix the fault, you are liable to pay for..................it's just one big con this car warranty game.

Keith as you did not state what the actual fault was, is it a case of the Main Dealer omitting to tell you what the fault actually was....Now that would have been handy to know, because a fair few peeps with TCDi's appear to suffer with the same symptoms.

I keep lapsing into the mindset that the next car I'll get will be another TDCi. I like the extra torque, the fuel economy and the road tax savings. But then I keep being reminded of the pitfalls you can in counter buying TDCi's with a few years on their back. And then I keep reminding myself, with my annual mileage it not worth it. All the time I've had petrol engined cars [apart from my first one an A35 van ]never had engine faults or break downs. And I've owned motors for forty six years now [and never bought a new one] And all I've ever had to do is service them once a year. OK I've had the usual renewals, a couple of clutches, pads, shoes and disks, and a couple of exhausts......nar I'll stick with petrol I think, especially with this hit and miss approach to getting them fixed......the more kit there is on the car, the more potential sh@t there is to hit the proverbial fan it would seem. :rolleyes:
keith-focus
Sorry all for not making my solution clearer.

It was a bad connection on pin 14 in the battery junction box that finally fixed the fault. The Ford main dealer "repaired and made good the connector" and I haven't had the fault since.

I had suffered loss of power and revs would not increase at start up but did not have any white smoke.

There does seem to be a number of faults that could cause similar symptoms but in my case it was just the bad connection.

Keith
WHITEyy118
[quote name='keith-focus' timestamp='1288686971' post='102954']
Sorry all for not making my solution clearer.

It was a bad connection on pin 14 in the battery junction box that finally fixed the fault. The Ford main dealer "repaired and made good the connector" and I haven't had the fault since.

I had suffered loss of power and revs would not increase at start up but did not have any white smoke.

There does seem to be a number of faults that could cause similar symptoms but in my case it was just the bad connection.

Keith
[/quote]

So how much did that cost you?

I've got to fork out £80 on the diagnostics and then whatever the problem is. What's worse is the garage I go charges like £80 for 1 hours labour :(.

But I'm now starting to think the white smoke I'm getting is something different to the warning light. I think the smoke is just down to the EGR and then the other fault is just a faulty wire or something. I've already had my alternator replaced as it was causing the battery to dish out too much voltage. Luckily that was done under warrenty when I bought the car. Maybe it could be down to that again?

But we'll see. My car is there now so I'll keep you up to date when I get a phone call.
catch
[quote name='keith-focus' timestamp='1288686971' post='102954']
Sorry all for not making my solution clearer.
[/quote]

No I'm the one who should apologise Keith, you made it quite clear in your third post back. And as such did not feel the need to go into said detail again in the post that followed it.......I really must pay attention :rolleyes:

Same goes for you WHITEyy118.. :D It cost Keith £94 [two visits] but he also got two car washes out of that as well :)

And lets be fair they obviously had somebody on the job that knew what he was doing. I mean tracing a wiring fault can be a bit hit and miss at times. Especially if the guy working on you car is only good at replacing brake pads ;)
WHITEyy118
[quote name='catch' timestamp='1288694706' post='102962']
No I'm the one who should apologise Keith, you made it quite clear in your third post back. And as such did not feel the need to go into said detail again in the post that followed it.......I really must pay attention :rolleyes:

Same goes for you WHITEyy118.. :D It cost Keith £94 [two visits] but he also got two car washes out of that as well :)

And lets be fair they obviously had somebody on the job that knew what he was doing. I mean tracing a wiring fault can be a bit hit and miss at times. Especially if the guy working on you car is only good at replacing brake pads ;)
[/quote]

Yeah I just looked back. Although I didn't know if he was charged anything on top of the labour. All he said was it was repaired and made a good connection so I didn't know if anything was replaced. But it doesn't matter anyway cos no doubt my case will be something different. My car has been there 6 hours now and I've not heard anything, but they could leave it till the end of the day again like they did before <_<

And about the free washes, last week I took my car for a service. Online they charge £259 for a major service and you can add extras, like a car wash. I didn't bother but they did it anyway :lol:
catch
[quote name='WHITEyy118' timestamp='1288707437' post='102985']

And about the free washes, last week I took my car for a service. Online they charge £259 for a major service and you can add extras, like a car wash. I didn't bother but they did it anyway :lol:
[/quote]

I know it's to late for that service, but you should shop around main dealers if you want a main dealer service stamp in your book. Because you would most likely find them doing cheaper services for cars over 3 years old, than those you can book on-line. Why? because in the real world they realise that there are a lot of cars out there they are not servicing because main dealer hourly rates are so high.

[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/servicing.jpg[/IMG]
keith-focus
Yes, my total cost was 94 quid at the main dealer, that included the fix. (and car washes!!)

Keith
WHITEyy118
[quote name='catch' timestamp='1288711067' post='102994']
I know it's to late for that service, but you should shop around main dealers if you want a main dealer service stamp in your book. Because you would most likely find them doing cheaper services for cars over 3 years old, than those you can book on-line. Why? because in the real world they realise that there are a lot of cars out there they are not servicing because main dealer hourly rates are so high.

[/quote]

I did but there is a story behind it. I had the week off work last week so was going to book it in then so I was looking online and ringing my local Ford dealers to get prices, I found 2 cheaper than the 1 I mentioned above. However the week before that the warning light I've been on about came up so I needed to get my car in ASAP, and the £259 one was very helpful and got me in like 1 week before the rest.

And I'm not mega rich but at the same time I don't want to have to count every penny I spend so I don't mind paying a little more. Especially considering a service is only a yearly spend.
catch
[quote name='WHITEyy118' timestamp='1288712933' post='103001']

And I'm not mega rich but at the same time I don't want to have to count every penny I spend so I don't mind paying a little more. Especially considering a service is only a yearly spend.
[/quote]

Well my granny always told me.....if you look after the pennies the pounds will take care of themselves :ph34r:
WHITEyy118
Update.

Got a phone call at 16.45 saying they have just done an IDS check and the fault code was a glow plug circuit problem. So they said they'd fix it then and it'd be ready by 17.45. So off I trot to pick it up and they call 15mins early to say its done. Anyway I spoke to the man and he said that from the code they checked all my glow plugs and all were faulty, so they have had all four changed. With the new parts and labour it cost £184 but now the car does run a lot better and no light. As it was dark I couldn't tell if the smoke problem had gone but I only assume it has.

Ok I've payed a lot recently but I'm just happy it's all done now. :)
keith-focus
I know what you mean when you say I am just glad it's all sorted.

Sounds like the first garage was onto something when they said it was the glow plugs relay.

How were the glow plugs faulty? Were they on all the time or did they not come on when you started. I guess this is what was causing the white smoke.
I wonder what caused all four to be faulty. (maybe they were on all the time and burnt out)

Anyway, I am glad you car is fixed. Thanks for posting your solution for other to look up in future.

Keith
WHITEyy118
[quote name='keith-focus' timestamp='1288735364' post='103056']
I know what you mean when you say I am just glad it's all sorted.

Sounds like the first garage was onto something when they said it was the glow plugs relay.

How were the glow plugs faulty? Were they on all the time or did they not come on when you started. I guess this is what was causing the white smoke.
I wonder what caused all four to be faulty. (maybe they were on all the time and burnt out)

Anyway, I am glad you car is fixed. Thanks for posting your solution for other to look up in future.

Keith
[/quote]

It was the same garage that done it all. It was only because they did the diagnostics check on the last visit when it told them the correct code. The visit before they must of just guessed. :huh:

And I haven't actually checked about the smoke yet cos it's been dark but I think it would have gone. At first I thought the smoke was because of a dodgy EGR valve but after cleaning it nothing changed. So I suppose it had to be the glow plugs. And because of the smoke it just means that fuel isn't burning correctly because of lack of heat. Therefore they just weren't heating up properly. So I can only put it down to wear and tear but my car has only done 40k and what's the chances of all 4 being faulty :blink:


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