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catch
I think the copy below of the email I have sent to the Ford Main Dealer I purchased the car from ...advertised as a "Franchise Approved Vehicle" twelve moth ago this coming Saturday, explains the issue.

Now I'm awaiting a reply from same, so dependent how accommodating they in agreeing to resolving the issue on my terms. I want the fix done, I also want the spark plug ports cleaned [and the ignition leads]And inspected by be me prior to the spark plugs being removed and replaced by new ones. If they agree to that, I will keep their name out of this report.

The lesson to learn here is, you obviously cannot trust a Main Dealer to do what should be done in regards to the known fault on Ford vehicles. So in this instance naming names is [b]NOT[/b] what this thread is about............but if they don't cooperate.................

Lucky for me, my mechanic appears to have taken out the least flooded plug.



[b]Good Morning,

regards earlier phone conversation with a sales person.

Car bought 16/10/09, major service carried out by your service department prior to pick up. There was a technical service bulletin in force prior to my purchase in regard to a known fault with water ingress into the spark plug ports. And as such the fix [revised washer jets] should have be done prior to me taking the vehicle.

On having the car serviced last week by my mechanic. It is self evident from the enclosed photos that the fix was not done by **** Ford and the spark plugs are sat in a sludge of rust contaminated water. So I told him not to remove and inspect plugs two three and four until I researched the issue further.

There is documented evidence on the web of plugs being blown out of the engine. Plugs again due to rusting shearing off at service time, resulting in expensive repair costs. And as a result of these findings I feel it is Fords and more to the point **** responsibility to resolve the issue not my mechanic.

Please ring me back on **** ******.

I'm not looking for arguments or hostages, I'm looking for a resolution to the problem.

Thank You,[/b]


Port 4
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/Plug4port.jpg[/IMG]

Port 3
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/Plug3port.jpg[/IMG]

Port 2
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/Plug2port.jpg[/IMG]

Port 1
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/Plug1port.jpg[/IMG]

Plug stems 2 3 4
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/Plug234stems.jpg[/IMG]

Edited: to insert the word [b]NOT[/b]that was missing in the third paragraph.
artscot79
[quote name='catch' date='11 October 2010 - 10:57 AM' timestamp='1286790457' post='100601']
I think the copy below of the email I have sent to the Ford Main Dealer I purchased the car from ...advertised as a "Franchise Approved Vehicle" twelve moth ago this coming Saturday, explains the issue.

Now I'm awaiting a reply from same, so dependent how accommodating they in agreeing to resolving the issue on my terms. I want the fix done, I also want the spark plug ports cleaned [and the ignition leads]And inspected by be me prior to the spark plugs being removed and replaced by new ones. If they agree to that, I will keep their name out of this report.

The lesson to learn here is, you obviously cannot trust a Main Dealer to do what should be done in regards to the known fault on Ford vehicles. So in this instance naming names is what this thread is about............but if they don't cooperate.................

Lucky for me, my mechanic appears to have taken out the least flooded plug.



[b]Good Morning,

regards earlier phone conversation with a sales person.

Car bought 16/10/09, major service carried out by your service department prior to pick up. There was a technical service bulletin in force prior to my purchase in regard to a known fault with water ingress into the spark plug ports. And as such the fix [revised washer jets] should have be done prior to me taking the vehicle.

On having the car serviced last week by my mechanic. It is self evident from the enclosed photos that the fix was not done by **** Ford and the spark plugs are sat in a sludge of rust contaminated water. So I told him not to remove and inspect plugs two three and four until I researched the issue further.

There is documented evidence on the web of plugs being blown out of the engine. Plugs again due to rusting shearing off at service time, resulting in expensive repair costs. And as a result of these findings I feel it is Fords and more to the point **** responsibility to resolve the issue not my mechanic.

Please ring me back on **** ******.

I'm not looking for arguments or hostages, I'm looking for a resolution to the problem.

Thank You,[/b]


Port 4
[img]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/Plug4port.jpg[/img]

Port 3
[img]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/Plug3port.jpg[/img]

Port 2
[img]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/Plug2port.jpg[/img]

Port 1
[img]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/Plug1port.jpg[/img]

Plug stems 2 3 4
[img]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/Plug234stems.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

the revised washer jets in fact do not fix the issue they do still leak in heavy rain though admittedly only a few drips having the 1.8 the issue is somewhat different as the engine sits further forward so the spark plugs get missed completely but it does drip onto the alternator main wire my advice is tell them you want them fitted with a small amount of clear silicone on the underside to stop any water at all
catch
Well they had not got back to me after half an hour, so I rang them back. Got to speak to a service advisor, now he has obviously not seen the email and photo's in question. But he denies there was a service bulletin out regards the revised washer jets, and suggests it was a core plug issue. I said, look I can point you to the web were posters have been told by ford service desks it is the case. Anyway I'm not here to argue with you, it is still in warranty that I got with the car. He said the warranty wont cover core plugs.....now can anybody see where this conversations going........guy on service desk looking for a way to make the customer pay for any remedial work needed.

Look I've been in business and I've seen it from both ends of the argument. Big failing with a lot of business, they are prepared to jeopardise brand loyalty in an attempt to save a dollar. Rather than take the customer complaint on board at face value until other wise proved to the contrary

Anyway I thrive on taking on these kind of firms, I just take my issue up the company food chain so to speak. I'm not in the habit of fighting consumer issue battles where I'm likely to lose, in fact I never have lost a battle in that regard. As I have neither the time or inclination to waste their time or mine. In any case I don't think we are at that point in time yet regards escalating it up the food chain. So I just said, look the issue as to where the water is coming from can be easily resolve with an antifreeze tester.

I said as far as I see it, until proved otherwise it is their problem not mine. And as such I want the water jet fix doing, I also want to be present at the extraction of the water and testing of same. And I want to inspect said ports are clean before the spark plugs are removed replaced with new ones. He agreed to this, and the car is booked in for 8.30am tomorrow morning.

Anyway unbeknown to the service advisor, I did a test this morning prior to taking the leads of the spark plugs, and photographing same. I placed a sheet of white cardboard over the spark plug ports, and played water on the bonnet and windscreen area for a couple of minutes. I then leathered off any residual water on the bonnet before I lifted it up. And there was a water blob stain with a run off tail stain going off the end off the sheet of cardboard, directly below the off side water jet and above number two plug port. There was also a water droplet directly below the nearside washer jet, on the component cover just to the right of the coil pack, and to the left of the battery cover. So to me it looks very much like a rain water issue.

My mechanic at the time of service pointed out that the coil pack had obviously been changed at some time. Because the HT leads had been marked with dots of paint at the coil pack end. Would not be surprised if underwater HT leads had contributed to a failing coil pack.

Anyway an interesting thread [url="http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=59882"]Ford Focus II (2004 - 2007) - 2004 1.6 Zetec Spark Plug blown out of engine[/url] over on the Honest John website were the core plug / washer jet argument is discussed in full. Plus there are plenty more threads on the web pointing to the washer jets being the accepted culprit in the vast majority of cases. As a guy called "bazza" said on that HJ thread, best thing to do is make a cover out of a rubber floor mat to stop any water getting into the ports and coil pack. Since he did that the plug ports have been "snuff dry" I'll probably do the same after it has been sorted by the garage.

Oh and by the way since I got the car and post the selling dealers service, I have had only ever washed the car with a non pressure hose pipe. So pressure washing is not the culprit, it lives outside and sits there in all weathers come rain or shine.

edit: cheers artscot, I will ask them to do that, it was suggested also by a poster on the linked thread.
artscot79
[quote name='catch' timestamp='1286795428' post='100609']
Well they had not got back to me after half an hour, so I rang them back. Got to speak to a service advisor, now he has obviously not seen the email and photo's in question. But he denies there was a service bulletin out regards the revised washer jets, and suggests it was a core plug issue. I said, look I can point you to the web were posters have been told by ford service desks it is the case. Anyway I'm not here to argue with you, it is still in warranty that I got with the car. He said the warranty wont cover core plugs.....now can anybody see where this conversations going........guy on service desk looking for a way to make the customer pay for any remedial work needed.

Look I've been in business and I've seen it from both ends of the argument. Big failing with a lot of business, they are prepared to jeopardise brand loyalty in an attempt to save a dollar. Rather than take the customer complaint on board at face value until other wise proved to the contrary

Anyway I thrive on taking on these kind of firms, I just take my issue up the company food chain so to speak. I'm not in the habit of fighting consumer issue battles where I'm likely to lose, in fact I never have lost a battle in that regard. As I have neither the time or inclination to waste their time or mine. In any case I don't think we are at that point in time yet regards escalating it up the food chain. So I just said, look the issue as to where the water is coming from can be easily resolve with an antifreeze tester.

I said as far as I see it, until proved otherwise it is their problem not mine. And as such I want the water jet fix doing, I also want to be present at the extraction of the water and testing of same. And I want to inspect said ports are clean before the spark plugs are removed replaced with new ones. He agreed to this, and the car is booked in for 8.30am tomorrow morning.

Anyway unbeknown to the service advisor, I did a test this morning prior to taking the leads of the spark plugs, and photographing same. I placed a sheet of white cardboard over the spark plug ports, and played water on the bonnet and windscreen area for a couple of minutes. I then leathered off any residual water on the bonnet before I lifted it up. And there was a water blob stain with a run off tail stain going off the end off the sheet of cardboard, directly below the off side water jet and above number two plug port. There was also a water droplet directly below the nearside washer jet, on the component cover just to the right of the coil pack, and to the left of the battery cover. So to me it looks very much like a rain water issue.

My mechanic at the time of service pointed out that the coil pack had obviously been changed at some time. Because the HT leads had been marked with dots of paint at the coil pack end. Would not be surprised if underwater HT leads had contributed to a failing coil pack.

Anyway an interesting thread [url="http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=59882"]Ford Focus II (2004 - 2007) - 2004 1.6 Zetec Spark Plug blown out of engine[/url] over on the Honest John website were the core plug / washer jet argument is discussed in full. Plus there are plenty more threads on the web pointing to the washer jets being the accepted culprit in the vast majority of cases. As a guy called "bazza" said on that HJ thread, best thing to do is make a cover out of a rubber floor mat to stop any water getting into the ports and coil pack. Since he did that the plug ports have been "snuff dry" I'll probably do the same after it has been sorted by the garage.

Oh and by the way since I got the car and post the selling dealers service, I have had only ever washed the car with a non pressure hose pipe. So pressure washing is not the culprit, it lives outside and sits there in all weathers come rain or shine.

edit: cheers artscot, I will ask them to do that, it was suggested also by a poster on the linked thread.
[/quote]

i wouldnt use the rubber mat idea tro be honest as long as the jets are sealed there wont be anymore issues its easy once its all done and dry a 1 litre bottle of water half a litre on the top of each jet if it doesnt leak from that it wont leak at all it is an issue and like you ive seen many many posts even the parts guys will tell you it was an issue thats why the jets were revised they just have a slightly bigger lip no foam or seal like some mention even with them in place pop the bonnet open and put some sealant around the edge jobs done thats why i dont have the soundproof cover on the inside of my bonnet the water leaks and builds up inside the cover then starts leaking and it can leak for days even when the weathers dry
catch
Right I had a change of plan:

I decided to suck the water out and take it to my mechanics garage and have it tested, still 99% sure it was rain water, as it's clear and I have not lost any coolant water. Well look what I got out of the two sections that the plugs orifices sit in, in pairs. And think on my mechanic had already taken one plug out to inspect it.

[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/ExtractedWater.jpg[/IMG]

Then on getting it out I rang my mechanics garage no answer so I thought he must be doing MOT work at the other garage nearby. Rang later and still no reply and as it's a round trip of 15 miles I thought sod it I can see when it settles its rain water. And as nobody will do a better job than me of cleaning the water and accumulated crap out, I decided to do just that. As I had read on the HJ thread, you could get the two revised washer jets to do the job [they have a rubber gasket that sits between washer jet and bonnet] for circa £2 pound a piece. I thought not worth doing a round trip of one an half hours, then waiting for them to do the job at the garage where I bought it, which is 25 miles away. It would have cost me more in petrol, so rang up an cancelled them doing the job.



So this is what I did:

Sucked water out via a long children's curly plastic drinking straw.

Got the wife's hair-dryer and dried it all out.

Got a small wire brush in via the HT ports and a large rubber blank grommet in the centre of the cover, did the sides.

Raked a screwdriver about where the two core plugs are and where the Spark plugs meet the block, to break up the crap. A bit of fine metal filings came out with a magnetized screwdriver.

Cobbled together a sucking hose by attaching a 15in piece of garden hose to the house vacuum cleaner with electrical insulating tape.

Well it came up spotless, sprayed WD40 liberally down the HT openings, let it work its way in for an hour. Then again dried and vacuumed it a out again

Cleaned up the HT leads popped them back on the car and nipped a mile up the road to my local Ford Dealer. Now because my washer jets are heated it would have cost £24 + for the replacement jets. And as artscot and others had said they still leak a bit, so you need to silicone sealant them under the bonnet as well. I thought sod it, I'll nip to the local DIY and get some sealant....£2.31

checked on getting back home that all was nice and dry in the spark plug well.

Masked off the around the washer jets, removed them from their bonnet position, applied sealant, re fixed them on the bonnet. Removed decorators masking tape from the bonnet. Cleaned away any residue, secured in position on bonnet with a cross of masking tape per jet. Reconnected washer pipes, and applied sealant to the underside of the bonnet. Job done [I'll leave masking tape on till later to night]
cressws1
Do the 1.8 mk1 washer jets leak water then? Might whip them off and blob some silicone on the underside before winter arrives.
artscot79
[quote name='cressws1' timestamp='1286824004' post='100642']
Do the 1.8 mk1 washer jets leak water then? Might whip them off and blob some silicone on the underside before winter arrives.
[/quote]

they do leak as in very heavy rain about 4 drips thats it but the small drip runs down and misses the engine 1.6 engine is round the other way so the plugs are directly underneath the washer jets unlike the 1.8 as you can see nowhere near them any drips will run past the engine drop right down the back past the alternator so no need to worry on the 1.8 the revised jets as i have them do not have a rubber seal on them they are just slightly wider on the bottom i asked about it when i got mine and the guy said that they were revised the rubber seal doesnt exist on the uk ones certainly not for the 1.8 maybe the 1.6 ones are different or maybe only available in the us
MrrNoName
cant believe that the garage would not look at this when they know its a problem, also that they tried to fob you off when you took it back. storys like this annoy me! you did the right thing doing it yourself anyway bud, you know that its done right then, they would have alost certainly done a crap job anyway!


glad you got it fixed in the end!
catch
Cheers mate, but what I cannot get my head around is this:

From the selling garage, I've heard the argument for leaking core plugs. But water extracted is clear, and no loss of water from coolant reservoir since I bought it a year ago. That's assuming the problem did not exist at time the garage did it's pre sale service and MOT.

So if it only leaves the washer jet explanation, and lets be fair the consensus of opinion on the web supports that. Even my local Ford Dealer said it was that, and that they sold loads of the revised washer jets, hence they carried them in stock.

So how the hell does the water get past those rubber stoppers that you press into the spark plug holes in the top cover ? Does it sit on the cover and seep past the big rubber grommet between the ports 2 and 3?

Anyway I went for a twenty mile round trip last night, and no over night rain. This morning I took HT leads off plugs one and two and took photo's

[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/Plug0ne.jpg[/IMG]


[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/PlugTwo.jpg[/IMG]
catch
I took the rubber grommet out and where it sat on the cover, there was a ring of wet outlining where the grommet touched the cover. And in Plug Port 4 [far left] a tiny tiny bead of clear water on the side wall nearest the coil pack.

You know I'm leaning to the idea that this water is when ambient damp air the kind you get in winter, meets the hot engine and maybe turns to steam than as the engine cools it condensates and settles in the lowest point of the engine block, which is those two Spark Plug Wells.

Anyway because I just love messing, I've decided to give the cleaned area and the metal bases of the spark plugs a coat of Hammerite Kurust for good measure, will post photo's latter to day.
catch
Well when the engine had been heated up, it finished up not much different look wise. And as I was driving it after it warmed up, it started to miss fire. Took the HT leads off the plugs and they were ringing wet. So that was obviously some moisture from the Kurust.

Block heats up,warm air hits HT composite covers,more so to the top of them [as in raising hot air] that sit on the spark plugs. Anyway dried them off and all is OK now.
P1
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/P1.jpg[/IMG]
P2
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/P2.jpg[/IMG]
P3
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/P3.jpg[/IMG]
P4
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/P4.jpg[/IMG]


So that's it, but will take a peek at them say in a week or so after we have had some rain. And in future prior to servicing, I will check them to see if the spark plug wells need vacuum out prior to removing the SP's
artscot79
[quote name='catch' timestamp='1286884682' post='100703']
Well when the engine had been heated up, it finished up not much different look wise. And as I was driving it after it warmed up, it started to miss fire. Took the HT leads off the plugs and they were ringing wet. So that was obviously some moisture from the Kurust.

Block heats up,warm air hits HT composite covers,more so to the top of them [as in raising hot air] that sit on the spark plugs. Anyway dried them off and all is OK now.
P1
[img]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/P1.jpg[/img]
P2
[img]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/P2.jpg[/img]
P3
[img]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/P3.jpg[/img]
P4
[img]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/P4.jpg[/img]


So that's it, but will take a peek at them say in a week or so after we have had some rain. And in future prior to servicing, I will check them to see if the spark plug wells need vacuum out prior to removing the SP's
[/quote]

idwe carefully remove th eplugs and on the threads rub a very small amount of copper grease onto them just incase it will be easier to get the plugs out and stoip them from rusting to the head tampons are great for soaking up the water just push it down with a screwdriver with the plugs in obviously let it soak the water up and pull out
catch
[quote]head tampons[/quote] what ever next :D

Yes I was thinking about taking them out and lubing the threads a bit. And whilst I used to have kit like a spark plug socket and feeler gauges, I haven't now. So I rang my man up this morning and asked him if he thought it may be a problem removing them next year, without them being lubed now. He reckoned they would not be a problem.

But I'm with you on this one, if you have the kit to hand do it.

Getting back to the lying water, anybody having the issue but not the time to mess about. I'd advocate running the car with the large rubber grommet [sat between plugs 2 and 3] out on a bit of a journey. I reckon that could shift a lot or possibly all of the water simply by the process of evaporation..............nothing lost if it don't work. So anybody trying it, let the board know how you go on.
catch
Update:

As it was raining all night last night, this morning I looked in the engine bay [first wiping the bonnet dry before I lifted it] And even though I had tried sealing the original washer jets from under the bonnet. It appears in both cases that a little water leaked past them, some into the trough of the plastic cover over the spark plug wells [via offside washer hole] And evidence of drips onto that plastic cover to the left of the battery cover [via nearside washer hole] Now as I said it was minimal, I should have photographed it, but only thought about that for the benefit of the forum after I had wiped it with a tissue.

But like I have said before, any water that gets into the spark plug wells is heated up by the engine and must bubble up as it boils [this has been proved by looking at photos of the HT lead stalks on spark plugs three and four, that sit engine side of the rubber bungs sealing the HT lead openings in the plastic engine top cover. Spark Plugs one and two don't show this rust colouring on their stalks, because they were not sat in water once spark plug one was removed for inspection, as the water had drained into the combustion chamber of plug one.

Now if that water boils the resultant steam must rise, yet it does not escape because the HT openings in the plastic cover are water/steam tight.So water cannot get into the wells via the HT leads. That leaves the rubber grommet in the plastic engine cover between SP opening two and three. Now it maybe the case that water collecting in the trough of the plastic engine cover is leaking into the SP wells via this grommet opening. In my particular case this morning the water was minimal, and because the drive slopes font to back of the car, but also on the horizontal to the left. The water collected in a corner but in any case it did not even cover the width of the plastic trough.

Now when I have had this grommet out when there was the original water trapped in the SP wells. It left a wet ring on the plastic cover. This was after running the engine, was it trapped steam condensate now on cooling reverting to water? Was it evidence of water trying to get in, or steam tying to get out, who knows? So I may just remove it and apply some silicone sealant to it and pop it back in place. So I'm still not going to spend £24 on new washer jets as I think they will still let a little water past them, much the same as the originals are doing now after seating them in with silicone sealant [ as your are working blind when trying to seal them under the bonnet because of its double skinned.

Anyway next time it rains I photograph the water collected.

Also I reckon those two threaded bolt points in the plastic engine cover are there to facilitate an engine cover, pity Ford where to tight to fit one.
MrrNoName
[quote name='catch' timestamp='1287477495' post='101398']
Update:

As it was raining all night last night, this morning I looked in the engine bay [first wiping the bonnet dry before I lifted it] And even though I had tried sealing the original washer jets from under the bonnet. It appears in both cases that a little water leaked past them, some into the trough of the plastic cover over the spark plug wells [via offside washer hole] And evidence of drips onto that plastic cover to the left of the battery cover [via nearside washer hole] Now as I said it was minimal, I should have photographed it, but only thought about that for the benefit of the forum after I had wiped it with a tissue.

But like I have said before, any water that gets into the spark plug wells is heated up by the engine and must bubble up as it boils [this has been proved by looking at photos of the HT lead stalks on spark plugs three and four, that sit engine side of the rubber bungs sealing the HT lead openings in the plastic engine top cover. Spark Plugs one and two don't show this rust colouring on their stalks, because they were not sat in water once spark plug one was removed for inspection, as the water had drained into the combustion chamber of plug one.

Now if that water boils the resultant steam must rise, yet it does not escape because the HT openings in the plastic cover are water/steam tight.So water cannot get into the wells via the HT leads. That leaves the rubber grommet in the plastic engine cover between SP opening two and three. Now it maybe the case that water collecting in the trough of the plastic engine cover is leaking into the SP wells via this grommet opening. In my particular case this morning the water was minimal, and because the drive slopes font to back of the car, but also on the horizontal to the left. The water collected in a corner but in any case it did not even cover the width of the plastic trough.

Now when I have had this grommet out when there was the original water trapped in the SP wells. It left a wet ring on the plastic cover. This was after running the engine, was it trapped steam condensate now on cooling reverting to water? Was it evidence of water trying to get in, or steam tying to get out, who knows? So I may just remove it and apply some silicone sealant to it and pop it back in place. So I'm still not going to spend 24 on new washer jets as I think they will still let a little water past them, much the same as the originals are doing now after seating them in with silicone sealant [ as your are working blind when trying to seal them under the bonnet because of its double skinned.

Anyway next time it rains I photograph the water collected.

Also I reckon those two threaded bolt points in the plastic engine cover are there to facilitate an engine cover, pity Ford where to tight to fit one.
[/quote]


sorry to hear they are still leaking!

what sealent did you try?
i know it can be a real pain to keep water out when it keeps wanting to get in!
catch
[quote name='MrrNoName' timestamp='1287499597' post='101434']
sorry to hear they are still leaking!

what sealent did you try?
i know it can be a real pain to keep water out when it keeps wanting to get in!
[/quote]

Everflex premium clear silicone sealant, for UPVCu frames, glazing and general construction purposes. I think the issue is getting the sealant in the actual spot you want it, as outlined in my post...only a small hole on the outer double skin of the bonnet,from whence you can try and apply the sealant....in other words..... working blind.
catch
Had another go at applying sealant to the underside of the bonnet around the washers. This time because it was earlier in the day [instead of late afternoon] I could see what I was doing. :rolleyes:

Just need a good downpour now to see how it stands up to it, but I'm quietly confident. :ph34r:
catch
well we got some overnight rain, and below is the result

Below OS washer

[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/211010.jpg[/IMG]

Below NS washer

[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/NSwiper.jpg[/IMG]

So I thought bugger, I'll bite the bullet and invest in the revised washer jets.

So £25.69 later......I take the old washer jets out. Now I never actually removed the old ones completely, when I applied silicone sealant to the bonnet.
But you can see the sealant stuck to the bonnet, in fact it was a right bugger to remove.

[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/bonnetslot.jpg[/IMG]

But on removing the old washers completely I noticed they had gaskets on them. But I noticed the new washers seemed a tad bigger. It was easier to see putting the New and Old gaskets side by side. Plus when set into the bonnet they felt tighter and a lot harder to remove. Plus the new gaskets where a lot cleaner, the old ones had nobbly bits where they no doubt split from the mould that formed them.

[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/gaskets.jpg[/IMG]

Now I thought when fitting them I wont go for the ...whole seating them in silcone sealant, then back sealing under the bonnet. I thought it better to do it one step at a time until I find out [for the benefit of others with this problem] what you need to do to fix the problem.

Also I do two tests, one being that I either wait for overnight rain, or play a hose on the bonnet, and see what the results are.

Then the second test is, I fire up the washer jets and monitor the results under the bonnet.

Best results I got using the old washer jets was as follows, test one I refer you to the two opening photo's in this post. they failed. Test two both washer jets passed the test, no water under bonnet.

Now the same tests with the new revised washer jets, straight out of the packet so to speak.
OS washer jet leaking on to spark plug well, NS washer jet no leaks.

Then I had occasion to speak to a plumber visiting else where, and I allowed him to park off road because it's all double yellow lines around us.I said I bet you think I'm mad just stood here playing water onto the bonnet, any how I tell him the tale... sealant this sealant that and the old ones still leaked. He went to the boot of his car and came back with a jar, took the lid of and said get your self a big dollop of that out, trust me this stuff works. And what was it called "Silicone Grease" its Vaseline like in texture.

So you see, if you do a good turn to others you sometimes get re paid with a good turn back, he was in a BMW as well....who said BMW drivers haven't got a heart :D

So I remove the jets, liberally smear the silicone grease between jets and gasket, gasket and bonnet. Refit and do Test One, NO LEAKS. So I then go on to Test Two, fire up the washers . OS washer does not leak onto engine, but NS washer appears to leak where the pipe under the bonnet connects to the washer jet.

[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/later.jpg[/IMG]

I try applying silicone grease but it still leaks, but not surprised really because the pipe fits over a cone like plastic nozzle. Below is a picture of one of the old washer jets, but it is representative of the new jets nozzles.

[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/suggy1/oldnozzel.jpg[/IMG]

Anyway I've back filled the offending nozzle where it meets the water pipe with silicone sealant. I'm allowing it to set overnight before I test it. So you will have to wait until then to see if I've cracked it.

If that fails it's onto Plan C......a gutter :rolleyes:

But I do think in regard to rain water ingress the "silicone grease" looks like it's the stuff you need to apply. Maybe it would have worked applied the same way to the old washer jets as the new ones. But like I say the new ones are a better fit with better quality gaskets.
catch
It rained quite heavy last night, went out to the car lifted the bonnet and......


[size="7"][color="#0000FF"][b]EUREKA![/b][/color][/size]

Tried Test Two and again..........

[size="7"][color="#0000FF"][b]EUREKA![/b][/color][/size]


So on reflection, maybe that silicone grease would have worked on my old washer and gasket combo. But for previously stated reasons, in my case I doubt it would. But to anybody else finding they have this problem, I would say first lay your hands on some silicone grease remove the washer jets from the bonnet, apply liberally and refit, half hour job tops. You may just be lucky, but if not, and you have to buy the revised washer jets, your still going to need the silicone grease.

I suspect the board would be interested to hear [I know I would] any feed back if somebody does try the fix on the their old washer jets.
MrrNoName
glad u got it fixed.. FINALLY :)
catch
cheers mate
catch
Update,

three months on, no repeat of the problem, plug ports are as dry as snuff.
mr vimto
Hi,

Not sure anyone is still reading this thread but would like to ask a bit of advice.

I've just been through almost exactly what Catch describes in this thread. Don't know what I'd have done without the info here.

Had a garage suggest I have a new engine head at around £800 at one point. Thankfully avoided that. I've had the 2 core plugs replaced and the engine head tested for leaks/cracks etc. It is sound and there is currently no water in there. There is the tiniest bit of condensation on the rubber plugs that fit in the top of the spark plug well but I think this is caused by the remnants of water that was previously in there. I will remove the rubber plugs after every journey that I can to allow this to escape.

I notice on an old service sheet that Ford had noted water ingress in to the spark plug well - but I appear to have the OLD washer jets!

It is almost definitely this which is causing water to leak onto the engine and eventually end up round the spark plugs.
There were 2 big drips directly under the washer jets after a load of rain at the weekend.

Yesterday I got 2 new washer jets. Fitted them along with some silicone grease.
Drivers side washer jet and connection do not leak after rain or when washers turned on! (the critical side I think when considering the spark plug well - you won't believe the piece of mind this has given me!).
Passenger side: still a bit of water coming through after rain and when washer switched on. As someone mentioned - probably important to avoid water here too - as near battery.

Just wondering how you managed to prevent the leak on this side? You mentioned backfilling the nozzle. Can you go into a bit more detail on that?
I'm going to try and take the jet off on that side tonight and put grease between the gasket & jet, gasket and bonnet, and some under bonnet. Also between the connector and nozzle. How long should it take to set? I'll leave it overnight before testing.

If I can just get rid of the water there too I be soooo happy!

Once sorted, will it lead to any other potential problems? Worth greasing the spark plugs?
catch
[quote name='mr vimto' timestamp='1308648541' post='132697']
Just wondering how you managed to prevent the leak on this side? You mentioned backfilling the nozzle. Can you go into a bit more detail on that? [/quote]

ignore the reference to back filling, it was just part of the failed process I went through in seeing if a fix could be done without the need to revert to buying the new revised washer jets. Well the reality is the gasket that sits between jet and bonnet is all that needed revising.....now how cheap would they have been to replace....if they sold em separately, which they don't

[quote]I'm going to try and take the jet off on that side tonight and put grease between the gasket & jet, gasket and bonnet[/quote]

[b]That's the fix[/b] you need do no more. Don't wast your time stuffing any via the underside of the bonnet, you will just be wasting your time and grease.

[quote] Also between the connector and nozzle.[/quote]

Yes that's right, smear some grease on the nozzle part of the washer jet prior to pressing the water pipe home.

[quote]How long should it take to set? I'll leave it overnight before testing.[/quote]

No need to leave it over night, the silicone grease never sets, it just creates a seal between the two surfaces it comes into contact with, hence plumbers use it to fix real time leaking connections. It is truly miracle stuff.

I've used it to fix a leaking water solenoid in a shower. As the leaking water burnt out the electrical coil of the solenoid. I just dissembled the neoprene diaphragm smear both sides of diaphragm with the grease. Reassembled, fit new coil and Bobs your Uncle.....and there is some fair pressure coming through that pipe.

Also last week fixed a long leaking cold tap in the bathroom. Dissembled tap, cleaned the crude built up around one of the two rubber ring seals, smeared them both with the grease. The actual tap washer was fine, no need to replace that............and again Bobs your Uncle.

[quote]
Once sorted, will it lead to any other potential problems? [/quote]
Nope

[quote]Worth greasing the spark plugs?
[/quote]

Again no, because the head is subject to extreme temperatures, that I would think make the sealing properties of the grease redundant. Besides the threads in the block are tapered, that is how the Spark plug seal works. And don't over tighten the Spark Plugs, that could lead to problems of them shearing off at a later service, as Fords maintenance schedule has plugs to change every three years, just a nice "nip up" will do it.

Besides you will have solved the problem of water ingress, my plug ports are still dry as snuff.

By the way welcome to the forum.
bottletree
Ha Ha, missed a good programme on telly cause i was so engrossed in this thread. Glad it all worked out in the end.
mr vimto
Thought I would report back on current situation.

It appears to be sorted. I mentioned that teh passenger side washer was leaking with test 1 and 2. After significant amounts of rain, there is no water under the bonnet. I've also tested using washers and still no water.

After my previous post I removed the washer jet and added a little more silicine grease compared to before - particularly to the nozzle.

Seems to have done the trick. I will keep checking regularly to make sure the seal is still sound.

No water in the spark plug area.

Before I knew it had worked I was considering options I could try to make a better connection between the nozzle of the washer jet and the connector that attaches it to the rubber hose.
One that came to mind were:
1) thread tape/PTFE tape round the nozzle
2) a new connector + silicone grease.
The problem with 2 would have been removing the connector from the hose.
Anyway - these are options that might come in handy if necessary - hopefully won't come to that - but might help others who are still struggling.

Thanks once again for the advice on this thread - especially Catch. Saved alot of faffing around, time and money.
This thread appears to be the most informative on the problem out there.

Cheers,

Mr. Vimto
catch
Thanks Mr Vimto,

but that to me is what the web is all about....... helping out others, and in turn being helped by others

If only the world could be run on the same basis
Morleyst
Wow so glad I found this forum and thread regarding the water ingress. I've been tearing my hair trying to find a way to stop the water leaking in through the washer jets. I'd read on another forum that they were the sole cause of the water leak but just couldn't find a way to stop it.

Anyway just ordered a tube of Silicone Grease off Amazon (£4.20) and as mentioned above am gonna liberally apply it to the original washers in the hope it resolves the leak. Worst case I'll order the revised washers and follow Catch's instructions

Catch....Mr Vimto you've both been a massive help. Many thanks.

Will post results
reprised
[quote name='Morleyst' timestamp='1323419006' post='155828']
Wow so glad I found this forum and thread regarding the water ingress. I've been tearing my hair trying to find a way to stop the water leaking in through the washer jets. I'd read on another forum that they were the sole cause of the water leak but just couldn't find a way to stop it.

Anyway just ordered a tube of Silicone Grease off Amazon (4.20) and as mentioned above am gonna liberally apply it to the original washers in the hope it resolves the leak. Worst case I'll order the revised washers and follow Catch's instructions

Catch....Mr Vimto you've both been a massive help. Many thanks.

Will post results
[/quote]

I bought some carlube silicone grease off ebay and found it to be too watery - it just melted and disappeared. In the end I bought some high temp clear silicone sealant from halfords and applied it on both sides of the jet gasket and squeezed a load more underneath the bonnet. It's been a month or so and haven't had any more washer fluid or rain coming through either washer jet (fingers crossed).
Morleyst
Well its been two full days since I applied Catch's fix to my car and so far so good, no leaks (not a drop) under the bonnet.

I used the tampon method for removing the water, a bit unauthordox but it worked none the less. I then dried the ports out with our lasses hair dryer as instructed (thats what I told her). I removed the washer from the bonnet and gave them a good clean and dry and cleaned the area around the hole in the bonnet. Once everything was dry and clean I applied a good blathering of the silicone grease to both washers jets and replaced them in the bonnet. As Catch descibed I also applied a good spread to the pipe connectors behind the washers then reconnected everything back up.

I did this early on Saturday morning, and its now monday and we've had rain almost constantly since then and not a drop has got through onto the engine block or the battery terminals.

The guy in the local hardware store looked at me daft when I asked for silicone grease. Took me about 20mins of telling him no to all sorts of different types of silicone based products before he rang the owner of the store and he directed him to a little cupboard at the back of the store and hey presto there was silicone grease.

The only problem I had was once everything was connected back up I went for a quick drive just to check and the car seemed to drive like it was running out of petrol, very jerky and splutery. I could only assume it was the HT leads and removed each individual one and reseated at both ends. Problem solved. I've since done 80miles and not a moment of bother

The only other thing Im thinking now is to change the spark plugs for new as they have been sat with that orange rusty water ontop of them for godknows how long.

Thanks again Catch for the precise instructions. You've saved me and probably a few other a lot of time and money
Shiplu
I have same problem with my Focus MK2 1.6

I had to take off rocker cover, then strip off all rust and painted with Engine Paint to prevent further rusting.

Also replaced the rocker cover gasket. BTW, when I took off rocker cover, few middle bolts snapped off because of rust. But its fine without these bolts as long as you have new gasket.

Also created a DIY engine cover from fire resistant plastic as water leaks from windscreen washer jet goes directly to spark plug hole.

See attached files
catch
[quote name='Morleyst' timestamp='1323680092' post='156143']


Thanks again Catch for the precise instructions. You've saved me and probably a few other a lot of time and money
[/quote]

Glad to be of assistance mate, mines still dry as snuff..............it sure is marvellous stuff that silicone grease :)
ferretfloozy
mine also suffered with the washer jet issue ..read on here about the silacone grease and touch wood ive not had any problems since
Shiplu
I have just replaced my washer Jet with Ford Focus MK4 Mist / Spray type heated washer Jets from eBay as they are really cheap aroun £3 each.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Ford-Focus-Mk4-2011-Onwards-Heated-Front-Washer-Jet-Spray-Type-x1-/220849176475?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item336ba2ff9b

They have a special rubber gasket that stops water leak, and they are really cool as these sprays water as mist into whole windscreen and saves a lot of screenwash.

Definitely worth upgrading. These are for MK4 Focus but fits really well in MK2 and MK3 as they are exactly same size etc.
mr vimto
[quote name='Shiplu' timestamp='1326105401' post='160256']
I have just replaced my washer Jet with Ford Focus MK4 Mist / Spray type heated washer Jets from eBay as they are really cheap aroun 3 each.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Ford-Focus-Mk4-2011-Onwards-Heated-Front-Washer-Jet-Spray-Type-x1-/220849176475?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item336ba2ff9b

They have a special rubber gasket that stops water leak, and they are really cool as these sprays water as mist into whole windscreen and saves a lot of screenwash.

Definitely worth upgrading. These are for MK4 Focus but fits really well in MK2 and MK3 as they are exactly same size etc.
[/quote]


Those look great.

I'm guessing you could fit them without connecting them up to enable heating? In other words, just to benefit from the mist spray and better seal with the bonnet?

I'm tempted - my only reservation is that now I've got a watertight seal I don't want to faff about with it too much.
Stoney871
If you can only get the heated nozzle but haven't got the wiring to connect them just cut the wires off with pliers.
I was given a set of heated ones by a friend but didn't have the connections for them so cut them off, fitted fine and no leaks at all.
The new seals that comes with them have to be better than leaving on the older ones.
Petar
Hi guys, I've posted a quick guide to resolving this problem in a way that is not very expensive but works perfectly for keeping water out of your spark plugs. :) It's in the guides section: [url="http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/topic/29570-solution-to-water-in-plug-ports/"]Solution to water in plug ports[/url]
Phil S
Hi all - new to the forum

Read all these posts with great interest. I have had a little amount of water sometimes in the spark plug plastic well. I usually just dry it up with a bit of tissue.

What I can't see though is how it could possibly get down to the spark plugs? There is a collar around every plug hole and that is fitted with the rubber lead bung.

I see that in some of the above pictures you refer to a bung between plugs 2 and 3. I haven't got that bung on my engine. What is your model with this bung? - mine is the Ti VCT 115 engine.

I never been able to properly tell whether the water is rainwater coming through the seal OR if it is washer water coming from the pipe connector. Suppose it's better to seal both.

Are the Mk4 washers from ebay spoken about above a better fit and seal then? Might think about a pair of them.

Thanks in advance for any reply.
catch
Two Year Update:

my original fix is proving to be the solution.............remember silicone "GREASE" is what you need

Now taking the view..............better late than never :)

If the question in the post prior to this one was directed towards me. Unlike that poster I have the 100PS engined Mk2 Focus
artscot79
mines held up to the torrential downpours as well 1 year on using marine sealant not a drip
Ff06
I am having the same problem, have just put my car in for a service and they phoned to say they couldn't do it etc as water in the plug ports etc. he showed me and it looked bad, I have read all your comments but have zero car knowledge whatsoever but learning fast- I want to get the water out / clean it out etc but unless I am missing something the holes are very small- am I right in thinking that the only way is to suck it out. I should only be able to see into the little holes after taking the rubber caps off? I am sorry I appreciate you guys are all a lot more knowledgeable than me but just really worried that is is going to be a bigger problem as the guy said that basically only 2 out of 10 ford cars with this problem won't have their sparks plugs broken off when trying to get them out and I don't know how long the water has been there as it hasn't been serviced in a couple of years.
Thank you
artscot79
a ford dealer should still be able to do the service tissue will soak up most of the water then spray wd40 in so you have a little pool of wd40 and leave that for at least an hour then soak that up the plugs should come out easily enough but nothings gauranteed if ford say they wont do it just tell them it was fords design fault that caused it so its there problem then phone ford customer service uk its a well known fault with a technical service bulletin sent to all dealers about it
Fanta
I thought I'd share my recent experience...
 
I've owned my 2002 Fiesta for 2.5 years and have only seen the spark plug bay a few times, but on those few occasions I've wondered why it's rusty with no signs of water. Every time I've looked, I've never seen water.
 
So the car started miss-firing, which is odd considering the plugs were only two years old. You can't see the plugs that well with the rocker cover on, but the leads were ok so I just bought some new plugs.
 
The first plug removed was really rusty...
[sharedmedia=gallery:images:5368]

 

and the second plug snapped! Yes, I did a lot of swearing and thought "this is going to be expensive!"
[sharedmedia=gallery:images:5365]
 
A non'Ford garage said they couldn't look at it for a few days because of the Easter weekend, but told me to soak the plugs in WD-40.
There was a lot of rusty bits around the plugs so I hoovered around the plugs before spraying. Surprisingly the ceramic part of the broken plug hoovered up leaving only the shell to remove.
[sharedmedia=gallery:images:5366]
 
Whilst researching on how to deal with broken spark plugs I found the most common way was to drill the centre of the plug then use an 'Easy Out' or 'Screw/Bolt Extractor' (same thing, different name).
Now that the centre part of the plug was removed it didn't need drilling, so I thought I'd potentially save my self the expensive bill and try an Easy Out, for the price of £6 from Amazon.
 
The Easy Out came in a pack of five different sizes and I had to use the largest, which was a perfect fit. The plug case took a lot of force to remove and I thought I was going to cause further damage, but once the extractor had bitten the plug shell broke free with no signs of damage.
[sharedmedia=gallery:images:5367]

 

obviously water was causing this, but I didn't know how. The internet said it's either the core plugs or washer jets, which I found hard to believe. I poured some water over the jet and yes a few drops did run though on the the air box where it would eventually end up on the rocker cover. I didn't think this was plausible and I couldn't see how a slow drip would fill such a large area.

I waited to see what would happen when it rained and sure enough within just two hours there was a surprisingly large puddle on the rocker cover. So with a few days of constant rain and no use of the car, the spark plug bay would probably be flooded and take some time for the water to evaporate.

 

So, all this simply because there was no rubber seal around the washer jets. I didn't bother trying to seal them myself when new jets only cost £6.

[sharedmedia=gallery:images:5369]

 

I also bought the new 'mist' type jets (part No.1708796) that are on the Focus - they work well, but nothing to shout about in my opinion. The drivers side jet partially sprays on the low non-wiping area and runs across to the drivers door window, which annoys me slightly.

 

So a potentially very expensive repair fixed for £12! Not bad.

Stoney871
And all because Ford won't a/ fit engine covers on all cars and b/ can't be bothered to use decent seals on the washer nozzles.
ferretfloozy

and c/ admit that there is a problem .

Turvey

I have same problem with my Focus MK2 1.6

I had to take off rocker cover, then strip off all rust and painted with Engine Paint to prevent further rusting.

Also replaced the rocker cover gasket. BTW, when I took off rocker cover, few middle bolts snapped off because of rust. But its fine without these bolts as long as you have new gasket.

Also created a DIY engine cover from fire resistant plastic as water leaks from windscreen washer jet goes directly to spark plug hole.

See attached files

 

Sorry to bump this thread but it saves starting a new one  ;) 

Car started mis-firing the last couple of days and after a wee bit of investigation found water in the spark-plug ports(or whatever the correct term is) 

 

Sucked the water out with a wet/dry vacuum and sprayed with WD40.

 

Now my question is, how do you go about cleaning the area as illustrated? Is it a case of taping and covering up the rockers obviously leaving the plugs in  and attacking the area with small wire-brushes and emery paper and removing dust etc with a hoover? Or is there an faster/easier way? 

 

I will be trying to get some of the silicone grease as mentioned as well  ;)

Nathan_M
Mine did that, when It came to service I said change the plugs, had a phone call after the mot was done before the service to be told water was dripping out of the middle of the engine, it turned out that when it got hot the water bubbled up and over the edge of the cover and down over the bell housing straight onto the testers head, anyway I then realised that that was the reason it smelt warm after driving a short way it was the water in the plug Wells I brought a new set of the washer jets it appears to work with light ish rain but it pummeled down the other day and the smell returned for 1 journey before he juice evaporated again, although I must say at no point during the self drowning did the zetec se miss a beat, I wouldn't have found out at all if I hadn't changed the plugs.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Ford OC mobile app

artscot79

the only cure and i know as i did it 2 years ago now with not a drip is as i explained and silicone the washer jets to the body the water will cause the leads and coil pack to break down quickly meaning constatnt replacement the pass side also drips on top of the ecu cover which you dont want either

murphee7

Had another go at applying sealant to the underside of the bonnet around the washers. This time because it was earlier in the day [instead of late afternoon] I could see what I was doing. rolleyes.gif

Just need a good downpour now to see how it stands up to it, but I'm quietly confident. ph34r.gif

there is another fix somewhere on this site that involves a plastic cover from a volvo v50 1.6l 05/06 ,covering ht leads and spark plug ports casting water off head of engine,but doesnt fix problem on nearside

catch

there is another fix somewhere on this site that involves a plastic cover from a volvo v50 1.6l 05/06 ,covering ht leads and spark plug ports casting water off head of engine,but doesnt fix problem on nearside

 

Jeez give me strength, if you had taken the time to read at least part way down page two of this four page thread [post 19] You would realise this problem on the early build Mk2 Focus has been solved. I solved it, I posted pictures proving it for the benefit of others who may be searching for a solution to the problem.

 

So why on earth do you quote one of my pre fix solutions posts, then go on to suggest I try fitting an engine cover from a Volvo, but then point out it is not really a solution!

 

Now if I had a hole in my roof letting in water, I wouldn't go about fixing it by building another roof under the leaking one. No I'd find were the water was getting in and FIX THAT.

 

 

I started that thread on a realtime basis, noting all the attempted fixes, and the failures, all accompanied with photos. I then solved the problem, it's simple. I posted it so that others with this early build design fault  can apply my fix without all the trial and error I undertook.

 

It's now over three years down the road from applying that simple fix > Silicon Grease < and the plug ports are still bone dry.

 

The moral of this rant is.................If you have the attention span of a gold fish, and cannot be bothered to read a thread long enough to find the solution to the problem. If that is the case, best not to commit to a post evidence of that fact. :rolleyes:

 

Anyway that said, welcome to the forum....Me I'm going back to my slumbers  :ph34r:



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