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jeebowhite
Hi Guys,

Just come across [url="http://www.sinspeed.co.uk/blog/tag/kia-diesel-particulate-filter-dpf-problems-fixed/"]this website[/url], and it says you can remove the DPF...

Question is, in doing so, what effects will this have on the MOT, and in fact by removing the DPF, do you have to replcae it with an alternative clearing system?
ford focus edge
I'd imagine if you did that you'd fail the emission tests if you simply cut it off and the ecu would have a serious pms attack. Although you'd probs get a shed load more kick and alot more response off the throttle.

Reading that link though it pretty much says if you thrash the arse of a diesel off it will prevent dpf failure ..... what an excuse to give to the coppers "why were you doing 60 in a 30" well officer i was trying to stop my dpf clogging up haha.

Do they offer a service to remove or as they put it "regenerate" the dpf? (just checking)
johnH
now on a different forum (peugeotforums) i know that some of the members have actually removed their DPF, as they were fed up with constant faults with it. they had to go to a garage to get the filter and additive removed and the ecu remapped so it didnt throw a wobbly.

heres the link to the thread, discussing this if you are interested.
http://www.peugeotforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12791

its as i say if it can be done on one make, it sure can be done on another.

hope this helps

edit: also found this guide http://www.peugeotforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13017
jeebowhite
Will take a look later, and I emailed them asking what they do still awaiting a response... It could be interesting!!!
jeebowhite
Just took a look, it looks good, so the emissions could increase, and I will have to unplug sensors, if its only a few hundred quid to remove and doesnt affect the insurance / emissions (too badly) its something I will do!
ford focus edge
Keep us posted on this jeebo im quite interested as to how it will go lol.
jeebowhite
Me Too, will speak to Ford and find out what consquences are present, if I go through with it, then I will definately put all the details up, otherwise, will probably come back and say I didnt dare!
johnH
there is also a guide to tell/show you how to clean the DPF.

basically from what i understand

1) remove DPF, clean, refit
2) refill fluid
3) use ford dealer to reset counter

p.s if you need anything of the peugeot site, give me a shout im a super mod there (cck2k9)
artscot79
[quote name='johnH' timestamp='1296067140' post='111334']
there is also a guide to tell/show you how to clean the DPF.

basically from what i understand

1) remove DPF, clean, refit
2) refill fluid
3) use ford dealer to reset counter

p.s if you need anything of the peugeot site, give me a shout im a super mod there (cck2k9)
[/quote]

yeah my mates pugeot had it done and its never ran right since pugeot told him hes lucky they dont report him to vosa for doing it
ford focus edge
Sorry if this offends anyone here but i cant get the mental image of a full on chavy scouser coming out going "wheres this focus then lads" whilst reving up an angle grinder :P
jeebowhite
[quote name='johnH' timestamp='1296067140' post='111334']
there is also a guide to tell/show you how to clean the DPF.

basically from what i understand

1) remove DPF, clean, refit
2) refill fluid
3) use ford dealer to reset counter

p.s if you need anything of the peugeot site, give me a shout im a super mod there (cck2k9)
[/quote]

1) Is it different to the pug to change / etc
2) of those two links you provided earlier in the thread, it seems that they are both for removing / bypassing it? do you have any links for the changing / cleaning / refitting?

Thanks
johnH
jee - well if i read something in the past correctly, basically some focus's use the PSA engine, which in other words is peugeot/citroen so these guides can possibly be of some help...obv somethings maybe different

heres the link for the guide to clean etc
http://www.peugeotforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9444

artscot - sorry to hear about this happening to your mate, but maybe he didnt do something right or there was another issue with his car. the reason i say this is because we have had loads of users follow this guide and have no complaints afterwards lol
jeebowhite
Will take a look at the document when I get home, unfortunately it appears that my works web filter is a little too sensitive, maybe the prospect of cleaning particulate filters is a little too hot a topic for the filter ;)
johnH
i was reading up and come across this:

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=76978

there were other forums etc stating the same thing... is this true, that the 1.8tdci engine does not have a DPF?

the reason i ask is because:

1) i have this engine and just curious, be a bonus if it is true
2) it contravenes what people saying about that it is needed for the vehicle to be EURO IV compliant, which according the docs it is EURO IV.
jeebowhite
Hi John,

I believe you are right, it does seem to be true, and I think thats because of the engine and its tuning by ford! shame they couldnt just do that as standard...

Following on from this, above you will remember I contacted a company sinspeed regarding this, hopefully the information below will be of use to others. I am strongly considering them at this time!!

[Quote]

Currently we have a great promotional offer on whereby we can offer a complete DPF removal service for just £550.00 on the Ford Focus.

This quote includes the following:

Engine ECU Reprogramming - This will ensure the engine will run optimally & efficiently without any errors, without any warnings and with zero problems.

Diesel Injection Tuning - This is something we offer that NO other company in the whole of Europe can currently offer. The Diesel Injection Tuning will ensure your vehicle will still pass the MOT after the DPF is removed and this is guaranteed!

Physical DPF Removal - We not only remove the DPF, we bore out the exhaust system using an Industrial Pillar Drill to ensure optimum performance with a unique exhaust tone. This also ensures no particle residue will flow back into the turbo and cause damage to your vehicle!

This whole service from start to finish is normally retailing at £750.00 however, as a XMAS promotion we was offering this at £550.00 and can offer it to you at the very same discounted price.

Also, dependant on your location, we can offer a free collect & return service as well whereby a member of our team will come out, collect the vehicle and bring it back to our workshop. Once the work has been completed, your vehicle will be dropped back to you.

For bookings & more information, please call us on 0871 2887 666 or if you can respond with a contact number, a member of our team will call you back.

Kind Regards,
Support Team
SINSPEED LTD


[/Quote]
johnH
thanks for the reply jee, thats lifted a weight of my back worrying about a replacment.

anyways back to topic they seem genuine to me, the only way is to take the plunge. in the end of the day if it doesnt work they have the legal right to put it back to factory for you...or so you would like to think etc.

the price is relatively cheap from what i have seen considering the work, parts and equipment needed.

especially the remap that you no doubtly get, needs a rolling road etc.
jeebowhite
Does sound good, I did send another email asking about what guarantees are offered, I asked the below and will happily post the response if/when I get one!

[quote]
1) What "Guarantee" is offered with this to confirm that the MOT will still be passed / no engine damage will occur from the removal?
2) Will there be any re-percussions with this removal (I.e engine efficiency / exhaust tone / performance?) will the vehicle appear modified in any way that may affect my insurance?
3) What location are you based in, as I am based in Medway, Kent?
4) As the DPF may have another 9,000 miles lifetime left, I am presuming that the offer will most likely have expired by that time?
5) What is the turnaround time for completion of this project?
[/quote]
jeebowhite
My latest response from the company...

[quote]
We offer a 2yr parts warranty and guarantee with our service the MOT will not be effected. There can be no damage to the engine as we are not installing a blockage, but instead removing a problem completely from a vehicle.

The performance of the engine will be increased and so will the life expectancy as there is reduced backpressure meaning the engine/turbo doesn't have to work as hard as before to produce the same amount of power. This can increase fuel efficiency and power.

We're in South-East London (Greenwich) and offer a free collect & return service in Medway, Kent. It will not appear modified because there is a heatshield covering the DPF box.

Our special offers expire without prior notice but this is the best price we've offered yet and I would be happy to hold this price for you until the end of next week (guaranteed).

Turn around time is one day.

For bookings & more information, please call us on 0871 2887 666 or if you can respond with a contact number, a member of our team will call you back.
[/quote]
Mooresey
How much does this cost?
johnH
looks good jee, id jump at that if i could afford it and was in the same shoes...investing to save money in the future...dragons den stuff hahahahaha
johnH
apparently it will cost £550 with this offer(source last post page 1 of this thread), hope this helps Mooresey.
kevin lancelott
Hi John I just been reading your story on your last car the pug.Just thought I would say that all. :P
johnH
haha good good, thanks for reading kev :D
Mooresey
[quote name='johnH' timestamp='1297287608' post='113465']
apparently it will cost £550 with this offer(source last post page 1 of this thread), hope this helps Mooresey.
[/quote]

Thanks for that didnt see the price to start with :rolleyes:

Mine is parked up at the moment with two engine lights on stuck in limp mode :angry:
jeebowhite
Sorry for the delay guys, the standard cost without this offer is £750. still cheaper than getting ford to replace at £1000 and then maintain at £130 a shot for the eolys fluid...
artscot79
[quote name='jeebowhite' timestamp='1297687296' post='114077']
Sorry for the delay guys, the standard cost without this offer is £750. still cheaper than getting ford to replace at £1000 and then maintain at £130 a shot for the eolys fluid...
[/quote]

makes you wonder why the manufacturers dont just do away with them altogether really mind you they make money for nowt really i have to be honest with so many new petrols on the market and really good mpg i dont think ide have a diesel again unless i was doing big miles strangely i know of a lot of diesels for sale all due to the above issue

does this gaurantee cover you if vosa pull you over if its an emission thing then it would be interesting to know where you would stand ive seen them inspecting cars and vans that run on diesel and they are very thorough its unlikely it would happen but still up my way they pull a lot of diesels looking for red or other stuff when they dont find it they start inspecting everything saw a guy that passed his mot 2 days before and vosa failed the car there and then on summat stupid
jig
If a Ford dealer sees the dpf has been worked on and notices ecu mods could they not refuse to work on your car or are the mods undetectable?
johnH
artscot - apparently with the dpf removal and a good remap the emmisions dont really change that much. i know what you mean, in summer months, when everyone comes to whitby vosa set up a roadside MOT station here at Fylingdales and pull random cars in for an on the spot MOT etc.

jig - i would say it will only be noticeable if the dealer decided to take of the cat (where it shares it location). as for noticing it on programing...i have never come across a mechanic, that claims to be a electronic technician, any good at computers. that and i beleive the remap is within the ECU as code, so it is undetecable...the only thing i will say tho is that make sure where you take it puts the new and old map on a backup cd for you. i say this because if ford run a software/firmware update on you car it may very well erase this data...then obviously your car will throw a massive wobbly. tbh if the dealer says im not touching that because of this and that, i will retort with "well your loss of money then" and find a different garage.
jeebowhite
LOL, its all ammusing, the only thing they would be disappointed by is the fact that they dont have to do the eolys fluid topups, If the car is out of warranty, I dont see why they should refuse to do it. To be honest, if I get the DPF removed it will only be until I can afford to get the petrol...
jeebowhite
Looking around there are a few places around Kent who could do the same thing, if anyone is interested, I have spoken to kauto.co.uk and ecu-rs.com who can offer this service for between £300 and £500! if I cant switch the car, I am definately getting the damned filter removed...
jig
[quote name='jeebowhite' timestamp='1297867219' post='114403']
Looking around there are a few places around Kent who could do the same thing, if anyone is interested, I have spoken to kauto.co.uk and ecu-rs.com who can offer this service for between £300 and £500! if I cant switch the car, I am definately getting the damned filter removed...
[/quote]


Im in the same boat,just had the car serviced had to pay some of the cost of a new turbo and stand to loose too much from trying to sell the car.I have a service plan also but I think you can change the car.Its frustrating knowing what to do just hoping it doesnt start playing up again,and keep doing a suggested 20 run at over 2500 rpm every few weeks.
jeebowhite
I wonder if the service plan can be transferred to a different make of car altogether... I doubt it...
jeebowhite
OK... so this information certainly is of help...

I emailed VOSA who then routed me to the DfT, and the outcome doesnt appear good...

[Quote]
From: dft.gsi.gov.uk
Sent: 25 February 2011 14:06
To: Jeebowhite
Subject: FW: Vehicle Roadworthiness Question regarding Diesel Particulate Filter

Dear Jeebowhite
Your email of 18 February about removing the particulate filter from a diesel car was passed to the International Vehicle Standards Division and I have been asked to reply.

Under Regulation 61A of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, it is an offence to use a car on the road that has been modified and, as a result of the modification, does not meet the emissions requirement that applied to it when new. This is likely to be the case if a diesel particulate filter is removed. A copy of Regulation 61A is attached for information.

I hope this is helpful.
[/Quote]

I replied back with the below, and it will probably take another fortnight to get an answer!

[Quote]
Good Afternoon and thank you for your reply. Until such a time as you are able to confirm the below information I will certainly not be taking the option of the removal.

Some companies have offered a “guarantee” that when they remove the DPF they will re-calibrate the ECU to ensure that it passes the emissions test for MOT. One specific company has offered a two year guarantee to ensure that this is the case.

If a vehicle is modified and passes the emissions test at a time of MOT, does this class as sufficient coverage to ensure that act 61A has been adhered to? And would the emissions have to meet exactly the standard as it was when it left the factory, or is a case that the vehicle must still pass the emissions, whereby as long as the vehicle does not fail the emissions test, then is this considered legal as per the quoted below?

I wonder this as I know as years go on the vehicles will lose efficiency and emissions will likely change as the vehicle and components age, and I don’t understand how the vehicle must abide to section 61A as it will age and surely will not be as efficient as the date it left the factory?

Does this mean that in fact the DPF removal service offered by some companies is in fact an illegal?

Kind Regards

Jeebowhite
[/Quote]

Attached is the document they sent me
catch
good on you jeeb, be interesting to hear their reply. Mind you being a government agency I bet you still get a less than definitive answer back from them. Reason being nobody will have a clue, or indeed the authority for that matter to give a definitive answer, but we can all live in hope.
jeebowhite
oh S**T!

Pass the word... Unfortunately it seems that DPF is very very bad, and can probably result in you sharing a very small space with someone who has been convicted for one thing or another...

[Quote]
From: dft.gsi.gov.uk
Sent: 28 February 2011 12:40
To: Jeebowhite
Subject: RE: Vehicle Roadworthiness Question regarding Diesel Particulate Filter

Dear Jeebowhite
Thanks for your further email of 25 February about the diesel particulate filter on your car. Please see my response (below in red) to your questions. I hope this is helpful.

Yours sincerely

Department for Transport


________________________________________
From: JeeboWhite
Sent: 25 February 2011 14:22
To: dft.gsi.gov.uk
Subject: RE: Vehicle Roadworthiness Question regarding Diesel Particulate Filter

Good Afternoon and thank you for your reply. Until such a time as you are able to confirm the below information I will certainly not be taking the option of the removal.

Some companies have offered a “guarantee” that when they remove the DPF they will re-calibrate the ECU to ensure that it passes the emissions test for MOT. One specific company has offered a two year guarantee to ensure that this is the case.

If a vehicle is modified and passes the emissions test at a time of MOT, does this class as sufficient coverage to ensure that act 61A has been adhered to? [b]No it does not. [/b]

And would the emissions have to meet exactly the standard as it was when it left the factory, or is a case that the vehicle must still pass the emissions, whereby as long as the vehicle does not fail the emissions test, then is this considered legal as per the quoted below?[b] The requirement is that the vehicle must not be modified in a manner which increases its emissions beyond the emissions standard it was required to meet when new.[/b]

I wonder this as I know as years go on the vehicles will lose efficiency and emissions will likely change as the vehicle and components age, and I don’t understand how the vehicle must abide to section 61A as it will age and surely will not be as efficient as the date it left the factory? [b]As noted above its modifications that increase emissions that are prohibited. Normal gradual deterioration would be acceptable. [/b]

Does this mean that in fact the DPF removal service offered by some companies is in fact an illegal?[b] Yes we believe that it is. [/b]

Kind Regards

Jeebowhite
[/Quote]
johnH
hmm.... that is some good beef jee...i will have to pass this on to another forum to let them know.
catch
What did I tell ya
[quote]Yes we believe that it is.[/quote]
a none definitive answer,that said I would not like spend a wad in court trying to get one :rolleyes: .

When you have been around as long as I have, you will realise it is better banking on cynicism than banking on hope or desire, as it pays out nine times out of ten. :D


And to be honest guys, like I mapped out in post number 11 on this thread [url="http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18777&st=0&p=113653&fromsearch=1&#entry113653"]Yet Another DPF problem !!![/url]

If your into a motor five to six years old it is highly unlikely it will be in your possession six to seven years down the road. So there are no economical reasons to pay out for a DPF removal as it's ballpark the price of replacement anyway. On top of that, your insurance will be legitimate, nor will you stand the risk of picking up a "Go Straight To Jail" card. And your car will be easier to shift on at the right money come the time to part company with it.................in other words......... IT'S A NO BRAINER

Drop the idea

>

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>

>

>

Move on

>

>

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Possibly think of having children

>

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Or going about making them

Now I don't want to here another word about DPF removal......... :D
jeebowhite
LMFAO brilliant!

its a right B*tch I have to say, I was hoping for something a bit more definitive, but nevermind.

Its a shame, all I can say is God Damn diesels...

The second I get approved for a nice big loan, its going to be bye bye Ford, hello Kia Cee'd!
jeebowhite
[quote name='jeebowhite' timestamp='1298912905' post='116310']
LMFAO brilliant!

its a right B*tch I have to say, I was hoping for something a bit more definitive, but nevermind.

Its a shame, all I can say is God Damn diesels...

The second I get approved for a nice big loan, its going to be bye bye Ford, hello Kia Cee'd!
[/quote]

Not to blow this threads trumpet at all, but since so many people seem to be interested regularly in the excercise of removing the DPF, would this thread be helpful if it was made a sticky thread? Would anyone agree or disagree?

Posed as a Vote at the top of the thread!
artscot79
[quote name='jeebowhite' timestamp='1300976127' post='119875']
Not to blow this threads trumpet at all, but since so many people seem to be interested regularly in the excercise of removing the DPF, would this thread be helpful if it was made a sticky thread? Would anyone agree or disagree?

Posed as a Vote at the top of the thread!
[/quote]

as i suspected it was illegal well if you add eloys fluid dpf replacements and the cost of diesel is it worth having a diesel at all with some petrols doing more mpg than diesels whats really the point
andysvision

Hi John,

I believe you are right, it does seem to be true, and I think thats because of the engine and its tuning by ford! shame they couldnt just do that as standard...

Following on from this, above you will remember I contacted a company sinspeed regarding this, hopefully the information below will be of use to others. I am strongly considering them at this time!!

 

 

So basicly what is the conclusion,remove or just clean the dpf? i just deleted a P242f error yesterday from my car :/

jeebowhite

To be honest, the opinion of the DFT seems to have changed, I have heard others (not from the horsers mouth) that as long as emissions pass, its fine, however the MOT recently has been tightened up.

 

It really is down to everyone who wants a DPF removal to get a guarantee of MOT pass, and its down to them to take the risk, but there really is no straight forward conclusion I have heard recently.

marklord83
I called a guy about taking mine off and he said why whats wrong with it, and I said nothing and his response was I dont like doing myself out of money but if its not broke why fix it, he said if im worried about it going first but maxx dpf cleaner as thats what he puts in customers cars and swears by it.
andysvision

I called a guy about taking mine off and he said why whats wrong with it, and I said nothing and his response was I dont like doing myself out of money but if its not broke why fix it, he said if im worried about it going first but maxx dpf cleaner as thats what he puts in customers cars and swears by it.

 

 

cant why just remove DPF and wash it and than just replace it?would it be much cheaaper :/

jeebowhite

There's more benefits that can be had by removing it, but even washing and replacing, that does for now, it still needs replacing ultimately at its 75k miles mark

andysvision

There's more benefits that can be had by removing it, but even washing and replacing, that does for now, it still needs replacing ultimately at its 75k miles mark

 

so final answer WASH it?look at this video i found does it work ?is it worth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAxF258p0Gg

andysvision

so final answer WASH it?look at this video i found does it work ?is it worth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAxF258p0Gg

 

i dont know why the video link doesnt aper,just go on youtube and serch with this name

:   

Pro-Line Dieselpartikelfilter-Reiniger (DPF-Reiniger) von LIQUI MOLY
flippin'eck

When the DPF's clogged full of ash, what exactly is that ash made up of? And, what with the cerium-based catalyst liquid being used, do the focus DPFs actually contain any catalyst of their own?

 

I'm just trying to figure out whether it's going to be significantly damaging to the DPF itself, to flush it through with various liquids.. and also what the most useful fluids would be.

 

e.g. maybe a damn good wash through with brake cleaner to remove the oil based crud, then let's say if the ash is mainly a basic compound, a gallon of brick cleaner.. ?

 

Or lye if it's acidic?

 

or biological washing powder..?

 

i don't really trust prepackaged solutions these days, they're often so bound by regulation that they contain nothing of any use. Like the halfords rust remover I just bought that turned out to be a weak form of lemon juice.

flippin'eck

http://www.dieselnet.com/tech/dpf_ash.php

 

Ash derived from lubricant additives is composed primarily of zinc,
calcium, and magnesium in the form of sulfates, phosphates, and oxides

 

hmm.. so what liquid chemical would react well with those without significantly eating the dpf itself

 

i'm thinking brake cleaner followed by brick cleaner (hydrochloric acid).? both liquids that can be bought easily in bulk at useable concentration

jeebowhite

Are you looking to remove the DPF to clean it?

 

In all honesty you would be better getting it removed. At the moment, you could spend plenty of time and money on trying to clean it to damage the filter, or let the chemicals remain and be part of the next occurance of build up. To remove and map it out, you would be a lot better off and would cost you a fraction of a new filter.



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