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johnS
Hello,

I'm new here so excuse me if I break any rules.

The problem is that when at idle (and maybe at other times, not sure) the engine seems to sound like a diesel, it's only noticeable when the engine is warm, and when the heater fans, radio is on mute. I dont seem to notice any performance changes, or fuel economy being worse, as far as I can tell.

The car only has 40,000miles on it, it's a Focus 1.6L LX 1.5mk

Any help?

Thanks,
JohnS
jeebowhite
If the vehicle is regularly serviced, then it could be a timing issue?
johnS
Only had the car nearly a year now, in May will be the first service with me. I guess I could leave it till then, but I dont really want to damage anything.
johnS
Anyone please???
sundaybuy
what??
jeebowhite
Check the service history, was it done by a dealer, or did the previous owner act as a lone ranger when it came to servicing? sometimes you can find that it will have had most requirements done but not all.

It could be worth checking the oil, and possibly a replacement, I believe you can get the service done sooner if you want to, as long as its done within 12 months! is the service your getting based on year age or mileage?
johnS
[quote name='jeebowhite' timestamp='1300349157' post='118843']
Check the service history, was it done by a dealer, or did the previous owner act as a lone ranger when it came to servicing? sometimes you can find that it will have had most requirements done but not all.

It could be worth checking the oil, and possibly a replacement, I believe you can get the service done sooner if you want to, as long as its done within 12 months! is the service your getting based on year age or mileage?
[/quote]


jeebowhite, thanks for the reply, the service history book shows that it's been serviced 3 or 4 times, and the build date was 2004, so theres a few years there where it hasnt been serviced. I did check the oil a couple weeks ago, it was black, but still on the maximum mark.
johnS
Update: it sounds a little like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikmJ4-RcGDw
artscot79
[quote name='johnS' timestamp='1300372290' post='118877']
Update: it sounds a little like this: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikmJ4-RcGDw"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=ikmJ4-RcGDw[/url]
[/quote]

might be me but it sounds like youre tappets need adjusted black oil isnt doing the engine any good i never let it get black i have it chenged plus the filter every 6-8 months max looks like the car could do with being put in for a full service
johnS
[quote name='artscot79' timestamp='1300372623' post='118878']
might be me but it sounds like youre tappets need adjusted black oil isnt doing the engine any good i never let it get black i have it chenged plus the filter every 6-8 months max looks like the car could do with being put in for a full service
[/quote]


Thanks, any idea on how much it would cost to fix?
jeebowhite
A bottle of fresh oil, an Oil Filter probably come to around 50 depending on what you buy, as for the tappets, I have not heard of them so will leave that one to artscot. in fact arts, could you provide a description of what they are and what they do?
johnS
[quote name='jeebowhite' timestamp='1300378256' post='118899']
A bottle of fresh oil, an Oil Filter probably come to around 50 depending on what you buy, as for the tappets, I have not heard of them so will leave that one to artscot. in fact arts, could you provide a description of what they are and what they do?
[/quote]


Thanks, yeah I may leave it to May for it's yearly service, though. I also would like to know if it's alright running it making this noise as there isnt any idle problems apart from the sound at warm idle, and no performance issues as far as I can tell
artscot79
[quote name='johnS' timestamp='1300379377' post='118902']
Thanks, yeah I may leave it to May for it's yearly service, though. I also would like to know if it's alright running it making this noise as there isnt any idle problems apart from the sound at warm idle, and no performance issues as far as I can tell
[/quote]

A [b]tappet[/b] is the noise made by a worn cam follower, however the term is widely used to represent the cam follower itself.As the cam rotates, it creates both a sideways and a downward force on the tappet. Without a tappet (and with the cam acting directly on the valve), the sideways force would cause the valve stem to bend. With a tappet, the sideways force is transferred to the cylinder head so only the downward force acts on the valve stem. Tappets/lifters are engineered to last the lifetime of the engine when the engine is properly maintained, including proper oil and filter changes. Though they are reliable, they have their drawbacks; valve clearances periodically require adjustment as the contact surfaces of both tappet and valve stem wear.so the noise could be that they are worn or that the valves need adjusted a ford job which i couldnt spewculate on cost about an hours labour





this doesnt apply to vvt engines which dont have them


johnS
[quote name='artscot79' timestamp='1300394281' post='118940']
A [b]tappet[/b] is the noise made by a worn cam follower, however the term is widely used to represent the cam follower itself.As the cam rotates, it creates both a sideways and a downward force on the tappet. Without a tappet (and with the cam acting directly on the valve), the sideways force would cause the valve stem to bend. With a tappet, the sideways force is transferred to the cylinder head so only the downward force acts on the valve stem. Tappets/lifters are engineered to last the lifetime of the engine when the engine is properly maintained, including proper oil and filter changes. Though they are reliable, they have their drawbacks; valve clearances periodically require adjustment as the contact surfaces of both tappet and valve stem wear.so the noise could be that they are worn or that the valves need adjusted a ford job which i couldnt spewculate on cost about an hours labour





this doesnt apply to vvt engines which dont have them
[/quote]


Thanks, should it be attempted to be fixed immediately? or could it be left to my May Service?
artscot79
[quote name='johnS' timestamp='1300398823' post='118948']
Thanks, should it be attempted to be fixed immediately? or could it be left to my May Service?
[/quote]

if thats what it definately is whatever it is will likely get worse over time and like anything usually ends up costing more in the long run if it was me ide have the car in asap to see what the ford guys say and take it from there
johnS
[quote name='artscot79' timestamp='1300401883' post='118957']
if thats what it definately is whatever it is will likely get worse over time and like anything usually ends up costing more in the long run if it was me ide have the car in asap to see what the ford guys say and take it from there
[/quote]


I see, thanks
johnS
Hmm, I feel somewhat happier now. I just checked under the hood and it appears that the engine is vibrating, pretty sure that this is the cause of the sounds. Any ideas as to the fix of this?
stef123
[quote name='johnS' timestamp='1300554834' post='119148']
Hmm, I feel somewhat happier now. I just checked under the hood and it appears that the engine is vibrating, pretty sure that this is the cause of the sounds. Any ideas as to the fix of this?
[/quote]

most probably a worn engine mount them. there are 3 mounts, you will need to work out which one is worn/damaged. there is one at the left hand side as you look at the engine, one under the battery tray on the gearbox(IIRC) and a dog bone mount/stabiliser under the car.
johnS
[quote name='stef123' timestamp='1300619984' post='119215']
most probably a worn engine mount them. there are 3 mounts, you will need to work out which one is worn/damaged. there is one at the left hand side as you look at the engine, one under the battery tray on the gearbox(IIRC) and a dog bone mount/stabiliser under the car.
[/quote]


Thanks. Can it be fixed without completely removing the engine out the car?
stef123
[quote name='johnS' timestamp='1300622020' post='119219']
Thanks. Can it be fixed without completely removing the engine out the car?
[/quote]

yes, they can be done quite easily. normally the engine/gearbox is supported on a trolley jack or engine support beam is put across the top..
johnS
[quote name='stef123' timestamp='1300650458' post='119283']
yes, they can be done quite easily. normally the engine/gearbox is supported on a trolley jack or engine support beam is put across the top..
[/quote]


ok thank you. I may leave it to my next service if it's not such a big deal now, unless i am mistaken into thinking that it's not a big deal?
stef123
[quote name='johnS' timestamp='1300656282' post='119310']
ok thank you. I may leave it to my next service if it's not such a big deal now, unless i am mistaken into thinking that it's not a big deal?
[/quote]

Its probably best looked at now, any excessive play could cause damage to the exhaust system.
johnS
[quote name='stef123' timestamp='1300665564' post='119348']
Its probably best looked at now, any excessive play could cause damage to the exhaust system.
[/quote]


to be honest, it isn't a bad vibration, it's not shaking the car, so I would think it shouldn't matter too much but I dont know. What would I say when I take it into a service? engine vibrating/shaking?
jeebowhite
Pretty much! just tell them on driving it the vehicle seems to be under more vibration than usual and you suspect that its being caused by the front end. Dont tell them what you think it is, because they will only take the engine mounts and replace them and then probably find a way to pin the blame on something else...
johnS
[quote name='jeebowhite' timestamp='1300786555' post='119559']
Pretty much! just tell them on driving it the vehicle seems to be under more vibration than usual and you suspect that its being caused by the front end. Dont tell them what you think it is, because they will only take the engine mounts and replace them and then probably find a way to pin the blame on something else...
[/quote]


thanks, although the car doesnt seem to vibrate when the RPM is higher than about a 1000
johnS
and what do you think is best? Should I take it to Ford's or use the small garage down the road? The thing is by taking it to Ford's I would have thought they would know a bit more about the problem as the garage will take any car and not nessesarily a Ford
jeebowhite
[quote name='johnS' timestamp='1300794539' post='119576']
and what do you think is best? Should I take it to Ford's or use the small garage down the road? The thing is by taking it to Ford's I would have thought they would know a bit more about the problem as the garage will take any car and not nessesarily a Ford
[/quote]

I would say take it to Ford, they know the cars better than anyone else, and can tell you if there was any problem with that year vehicle, so could say "well, if you dont drive the car for a minimum of 50 miles per month, where 10 of those are in one go, the gem board melts with boredom", local indies are good, but they are a jack of all trades - master of none! (or at least the majority are!)
johnS
[quote name='jeebowhite' timestamp='1300796418' post='119580']
I would say take it to Ford, they know the cars better than anyone else, and can tell you if there was any problem with that year vehicle, so could say "well, if you dont drive the car for a minimum of 50 miles per month, where 10 of those are in one go, the gem board melts with boredom", local indies are good, but they are a jack of all trades - master of none! (or at least the majority are!)
[/quote]


haha ok, i'll take it to Ford's in May

what is a gem board!?
jeebowhite
[quote name='johnS' timestamp='1300797079' post='119583']
haha ok, i'll take it to Ford's in May

what is a gem board!?
[/quote]

Good Question! I dont know the ins and outs of it but its related to the power system and smart charge on the Focus. thats about all I know on the matter!
johnS
[quote name='jeebowhite' timestamp='1300809228' post='119614']
Good Question! I dont know the ins and outs of it but its related to the power system and smart charge on the Focus. thats about all I know on the matter!
[/quote]


haha ok
johnS
the story continues....

I'm really not sure it's the motor mounts... as on the internet it says that mostly a motor mount will give vibrations through the body as well, which I never get, I just see the engine in the engine block vibrate...but then I hear this rattling sound which looks like it's because it's vibrating. I asked someone to look at the engine bay for me while I push the accelerator and they say it vibrated less when the rev's were increased.

I don't know what to do or what it could be. Dont really want to take it in for a service as all seems normal when it is not idling.

Any help? As this problems really not making my life very easy right now...I have OCD and it's bad because I worry badly about things like this.
jeebowhite
Vibration is normal, however it could be the flywheel thats causing an inbalance. But im certainly no expert when it comes to the engine and its physical properties, Im more of an interior / combustion man as its easier to understand! (Very bizarre I know!)

In all honesty I get some vibration on my car, if I rev the car to about 17-1800 revs, there is a vibration if I hold it there, and then when I rev below or beyond that it settles itself. I think every engine will have its own little rev pool where it will cause some vibration, but I mainly felt it in my back and through my feet, as it wasnt like the car was shaking.

Is it only when idling that it vibrates? and if you sit in your engine, and slowly increase the revs by ~100 for a short period, do you find there is a cut off when the vibrations settle?
johnS
[quote name='jeebowhite' timestamp='1300871662' post='119730']
Vibration is normal, however it could be the flywheel thats causing an inbalance. But im certainly no expert when it comes to the engine and its physical properties, Im more of an interior / combustion man as its easier to understand! (Very bizarre I know!)

In all honesty I get some vibration on my car, if I rev the car to about 17-1800 revs, there is a vibration if I hold it there, and then when I rev below or beyond that it settles itself. I think every engine will have its own little rev pool where it will cause some vibration, but I mainly felt it in my back and through my feet, as it wasnt like the car was shaking.

Is it only when idling that it vibrates? and if you sit in your engine, and slowly increase the revs by ~100 for a short period, do you find there is a cut off when the vibrations settle?
[/quote]

haha ah yeh, and yeah but isnt your car a Diesel engine? I heard they vibrate more as they are diesel. The thing is that the car doesnt sound like it used to when I bought it. Thats whats worrying me, but nothing seems different at all apart from engine rattling. I remember a lot of months back the steering wheel vibrated, but thats stopped and hasnt come back. The sounds do seem to go at anything above 1000RPM.
johnS
I should probably let this thread die, but I just opened the bonnet and tried moving the engine block to see if it would at least move slightly. It didnt even move one bit, i'm not sure if this can still mean the engine mounts are bad, but im guessing it's a good sign.

I heard it could be a spark plug/injector. could it be this or something related?
jeebowhite
Never heard of the spark plug / injector itself doing this, however if it causes a misfire that will disturb the balance of the performance, as its going to judder the crankshaft because its not going to have four balanced movements, it will have three balanced and one that skips along because its forced to...

I think the Diag PC at your local dealer, should detect anything like this, dont think any DTC codes are raised, but it could be worth a look...
johnS
[quote name='jeebowhite' timestamp='1301301353' post='120426']
Never heard of the spark plug / injector itself doing this, however if it causes a misfire that will disturb the balance of the performance, as its going to judder the crankshaft because its not going to have four balanced movements, it will have three balanced and one that skips along because its forced to...

I think the Diag PC at your local dealer, should detect anything like this, dont think any DTC codes are raised, but it could be worth a look...
[/quote]


I have checked using the dashboard trick, though and it shows nONE for stored DTC's
jeebowhite
[quote name='johnS' timestamp='1301338789' post='120492']
I have checked using the dashboard trick, though and it shows nONE for stored DTC's
[/quote]

That doesnt surprise me, my DTC didnt record air in the fuel filter, so I predict a trip to the dealer anytime soon, however johnH I believe is buying the WDS device so maybe a round trip to gateshead will be cheaper! lol
johnS
[quote name='jeebowhite' timestamp='1301385827' post='120544']
That doesnt surprise me, my DTC didnt record air in the fuel filter, so I predict a trip to the dealer anytime soon, however johnH I believe is buying the WDS device so maybe a round trip to gateshead will be cheaper! lol
[/quote]


lol hmm yeah, i'll wait till it's service in May, though, nothing seems different at all
jeebowhite
Good Idea, but they will still charge you the diag fee ;)
johnS
[quote name='jeebowhite' timestamp='1301472751' post='120741']
Good Idea, but they will still charge you the diag fee ;)
[/quote]


thx jeebowhite for the posts
johnS
UPDATE: Started the car and let the rev's go down to warm idle today.

The engine vibrates a lot more when it starts hitting the 700rpm range, rather than just after start, around 1,100rpm. This could suggest it's not a misfire condition?
johnH
[quote name='jeebowhite' timestamp='1301385827' post='120544']
That doesnt surprise me, my DTC didnt record air in the fuel filter, so I predict a trip to the dealer anytime soon, however johnH I believe is buying the WDS device so maybe a round trip to gateshead will be cheaper! lol
[/quote]

yeah im saving my pennies...all 400 of them lol will keep you posted.
johnS
[quote name='johnH' timestamp='1301765168' post='121277']
yeah im saving my pennies...all 400 of them lol will keep you posted.
[/quote]


do you have the same problem as me john H?


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