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Sara Fiesta
Iím disappointed with its performance itís seems sluggish, it doesnít seem willing to pull.

I owned a 2007 1.6 tdci Fiesta before this one and it was so willing great little car lots of fun, I know it a smaller and lighter car.

My question is are they like this or is something wrong. Iíve read a few posts about egr clogged up or is this just the dreaded dpf thatís choking the engine, is it blocked or out of additive would any of these not shown up on the computer when hooked up by my dealer all they said was it had two fault that they reset and they did a ecu upgrade?

:unsure:
digidash
either fault dpf clogged or additive tank empty would put engine management light on dash and put car in limp mode. limp mode is reduced power. i presume you paid dealer for diagnostic work? if so they should have told you what the faults were otherwise if the same fault is still present and they charged you to "repair" it how can you proove they didn't fix it right. anyway let me know full details of car, year, model, engine, fuel and mileage. also good description of faults along with exact wording of any fault messages on dash and i will try and help you, regards steve
Sara Fiesta
[quote name='digidash' timestamp='1306187283' post='128623']
either fault dpf clogged or additive tank empty would put engine management light on dash and put car in limp mode. limp mode is reduced power. i presume you paid dealer for diagnostic work? if so they should have told you what the faults were otherwise if the same fault is still present and they charged you to "repair" it how can you proove they didn't fix it right. anyway let me know full details of car, year, model, engine, fuel and mileage. also good description of faults along with exact wording of any fault messages on dash and i will try and help you, regards steve
[/quote]

Hi,

No charge for work still under warrenty the faults were low fuel warning and over revs errors all cleared by dealer.
digidash
are these faults gone now? if you fill the tank right up does gague read full and if you run it NEARLY out does it show empty? there is a common fault with fuel gagues and im just checking that they repaired it properly. the over revving...was this a human description of a symptom or was this a stored fault in the ecu? thanks steve
Sara Fiesta
[quote name='digidash' timestamp='1306190343' post='128636']
are these faults gone now? if you fill the tank right up does gague read full and if you run it NEARLY out does it show empty? there is a common fault with fuel gagues and im just checking that they repaired it properly. the over revving...was this a human description of a symptom or was this a stored fault in the ecu? thanks steve
[/quote]
Sara Fiesta
[quote name='digidash' timestamp='1306190343' post='128636']
are these faults gone now? if you fill the tank right up does gague read full and if you run it NEARLY out does it show empty? there is a common fault with fuel gagues and im just checking that they repaired it properly. the over revving...was this a human description of a symptom or was this a stored fault in the ecu? thanks steve
[/quote]

The fault originally was engine malfunction come up on the dash display and the car had no power at all, ford said they plugged it into the computer and there were two stored faults showing Low fuel warning and Engine excess revs which they cleared and said they updated the ecu with new software.

The fuel gauge seems to be working correctly Iíve not had any problem it seems to be reading ok I fill up its say 600 to empty and by the time it get to about 50 to empty Iíve done about 500+ miles.
jeebowhite
Which is about right as your right foot will inevitably accelerate more on some ocassions than others, throwing a bit more fuel into the mix!

Have you managed to get the DPF sorted out yet (as per your other thread) I wouldnt discount the EOLYS on this and the DPF being partially clogged with a Forced Regen to resolve it
digidash
car has pressure sensor before and after dpf. if it was blocked it would pick this up and put light on dash. same goes for additive ecu knows how much in tank and puts light on before empty. can you drive it hard and rev to red line? warm car up first.i think my advice would be to go to another garage and have codes read. post full codes here and we can go from there. also whats mileage? in service history was additive filled at 37000? thanks steve
jeebowhite
Sarah has 40780 on the clock (as of 20/05/2011) she has another thread running http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20630&st=30&gopid=128707&#entry128707 for a general discussion on the Damned Particulate Filter, as well as this one.
Sara Fiesta
Hi,

I Spoke to the dealer I purchased the car from they are certain the dpf additive has been replenished because I would of got the warning lights come on by now as Iíve done 41000, they said it would of run out! They also said there is no way of telling how full or empty the tank is!

Thanks,
Sara
digidash
[quote name='Sara Fiesta' timestamp='1306259784' post='128758']
Hi,

I Spoke to the dealer I purchased the car from they are certain the dpf additive has been replenished because I would of got the warning lights come on by now as Iíve done 41000, they said it would of run out! They also said there is no way of telling how full or empty the tank is!

Thanks,
Sara
[/quote]
apart from putting it on a ramp and shining a torch at the tank as its semi transparent. if the job was done they should have put it in the book. if they are adament it was done ask for a written guarantee it will not need filling for 30,000 miles and see what they say. they have also reflashed and reset ecu's on the car so learned values and levels may have been reset also....meaning no light. i would also bet money a tank will last 40,000+ miles. how long have you owned the car?, thanks steve
Sara Fiesta
[quote name='digidash' timestamp='1306267188' post='128789']
apart from putting it on a ramp and shining a torch at the tank as its semi transparent. if the job was done they should have put it in the book. if they are adament it was done ask for a written guarantee it will not need filling for 30,000 miles and see what they say. they have also reflashed and reset ecu's on the car so learned values and levels may have been reset also....meaning no light. i would also bet money a tank will last 40,000+ miles. how long have you owned the car?, thanks steve
[/quote]

Hi Steve, Iíve owned the car for nearly 2 months now, Iíve done 3000 miles. The tank is semi transparent thatís good too know maybe i cant get someone to look under the car where is it near exactly?

Thanks Sara.
catch
[quote name='Sara Fiesta' timestamp='1306272762' post='128822']
I’ve owned the car for nearly 2 months now, I’ve done 3000 miles.
Thanks Sara.
[/quote]

Sara, don't mess about, take it back to the dealer you bought it from, get them to sort your problems out. If you do not know your "Legal Rights" then click on the bottom link on my signature "[color="#FF0000"]Know Your Rights When Buying From A Dealer[/color]"

And please stop posting the same problem on different threads, as we just end up covering the same ground over and over again. :rolleyes:
Sara Fiesta
Hi, finally got my way my car is booked in Friday to have the dpf additive level checked, we talked about costs and they said they would have to speak to sales to which I said it should of been done prior to sale of the vehicle, so I don’t think I should pay the car had 38000 when I picked it up and the additive should of been done at 37500, am I in my rights to refuse to pay for this, how do i stand?

Sorry just seen the above post.
catch
trust me Sara they have not got a leg to stand on. If they try it on just suggest Trading Standards adjudicate in the case. At the mention of TS I think you will be surprised how accommodating they become :rolleyes:

They owe you a 37.5k service as well, otherwise they are contravening Fords warranty conditions. I'll put it this way Sara, if you let em get away with not doing the service, they will only think your a mug........Do you want them to think as you walk out of the showroom..........there goes another mug?
digidash
you could also state when you purchased the car you was not asked what kind of driving you do. you could argue a car with a dpf is not suitable to just do a school run and as such it is "not fit for purpose" and you believe the dealer had a ressponsibility to ensure your driving trips was suitable for the car
jeebowhite
lol 1) Catch, I like your new Motor! is it a Fisher Price?
2) Digidash's answer will come in handy if you try to hand the motor back to them and get a refund
3) as for the service, I agree with Catch, as a dealer they are required to complete the service as part of the vehicles maintenance, I have yet to come across any dealer who has not done a service (for example, my new Kia, bought it after 1 year, they have already done two mileage services on it, so they threw in a second for good measure to ensure the car was in good stead!)

I would definately stand your ground, I would go one better than threatening Trading Standard - Email (now) Consumer Direct (Trading Standards I dont believe act immediately nowadays as they are referred to by C.D.) Write the situation into an email and get a response ASAP (call them up to chase the email if necessary). Print that off and hand it to the dealer, if that doesnt replace the bill with zero's I dont know what will!
Sara Fiesta
Thanks for all the information hopefully they will just do it on friday without question and no cost otherwise i will give them Hell!! :angry:
jeebowhite
[quote name='Sara Fiesta' timestamp='1306351223' post='128975']
Thanks for all the information hopefully they will just do it on friday without question and no cost otherwise i will give them Hell!! :angry:
[/quote]

Thats the good ol' FOC fiesty spirit we like to see :P - Make it clear to them before you leave the showroom that you are not paying for it - in fact I would do it before you take the car in - give them a call now, and make it known in advance.
Sara Fiesta
[quote name='jeebowhite' timestamp='1306399948' post='129062']
Thats the good ol' FOC fiesty spirit we like to see :P - Make it clear to them before you leave the showroom that you are not paying for it - in fact I would do it before you take the car in - give them a call now, and make it known in advance.
[/quote]

I called them and told them i don't expect to be paying this, they replied lets wait and see if it needs doing and if so they will have to speak to the sales team to ok the payment but its up to the sales team.

they won't get a penny, i've read up on my rights at the bottom of Catch's Post!!!
jeebowhite
You should definately drop into a letter the reasons you do not expect to pay, and get the details of the "Sales" team. If its at the dealer, drop it off by post, and request to hand it over to a member of the sales team, otherwise address it and send it recorded delivery to the Sales Team. If you state your intentions in writing before hand, then they need to agree beforehand, or advise you that you will be expected to pay - in which case, you can go and demand your money back if necessary :)
Sara Fiesta
Tomorrow morning first thing 0730 from the ford dealer i purchased the car and I can wait for it be be done, a letter yes good idea I'll do that now and take it with me. I'm praying I don't get any hassle and it's been replenished already but if not I'm going to be ready! 
jeebowhite
Definately! I learned a little too late about standing my ground, and did put it into practice later than I should have done! so definately be prepared!
Sara Fiesta
Hmmm I got there nice and sharp decided to let them have it straight away attack best form of defence! I told them I was miss sold the car, I was not informed about the dpf and I only found out from my local ford dealer when my car went in for a engine malfunction fault, they warned me about the problems and cost of the dpf and the need for the additive refill and that it should of been check and done prior to the sale of the vehicle!

I also said I don't expect to have to pay for this, they said lets wait and see if it needs doing first. I was shown to the waiting area and given a vending machine token, got myself a coffee and waited.

40 mins later same service reception guys returns with my keys and says all done, it was already full your car is ready and waiting outside for you thank you. he showed me to my car which was right outside and wished me a nice day!

Now I'm suspicious was it done or did they do it and didn't want to admit their failings??

Sara
Happier Now!
catch
[quote name='Sara Fiesta' timestamp='1306491142' post='129251']

I also said I don't expect to have to pay for this, they said lets wait and see if it needs doing first. I was shown to the waiting area and given a vending machine token, got myself a coffee and waited.[/quote]

Tight gits, it's a free machine at my local Ford Main dealer

[quote]40 mins later same service reception guys returns with my keys and says all done, it was already full your car is ready and waiting outside for you thank you. he showed me to my car which was right outside and wished me a nice day!

Now I'm suspicious was it done or did they do it and didn't want to admit their failings??

Sara
Happier Now!
[/quote]


Your spot on there Sara, as it did not have it's 37.5k service done prior to them selling it to you. Neither did it have it's eloys additive top up done. Obviously they knew they were at fault, so just had the service side of the dealership do it.

You see the 37.5k service and eloys top up they omitted to have done, would know doubt been charged to the sales side of the business at full retail, because both sides of the business will be separate in that regard. For instance if your the service side manager you would not be happy doing services or repairs and replacements for the sales side free gratis or even at cost, as it would affect your commission. By the same yardstick, if the sales side can get way with not having that work done, that's another circa £400 extra profit on the deal in your case.

You may think the above figure is high, because Ford dealers will do £139 37.5k services. But if you read the small print, your car has to be over three years old to get the cheap service. BECAUSE, they stuff you with higher service prices whilst it is still in the three year warranty period. Why ? Well because the vast majority of new car buyers think within that warranty period they have to have their car serviced at the main dealers.....Not the case, as that would be a restrictive practice.....no all that is required to remain in warranty, is that it is done to the Ford service schedule, and any replacement parts are genuine Ford parts. [fluids need only be to Ford specifications] So when the warranty period ends they offer you cheap services in a bid to keep your business. That way they then charge you full wack on brake, clutch or any work that needs doing outside the warranty period.

So at the end of the day they are saying it was already topped up, a blatant lie, most likely it was nigh on empty. By saying it was full they are hoping to deny any liability of your cars current problems....but they cannot wriggle off that particular hook that easy.

So if the car remains sluggish I would contact Trading Standards. And complain because of the lack if the servicing requirements as laid down by the Ford Motor Company to comply with their warranty requirements, you are of the opinion you were sold a car that as delivered was definately not fit for purpose. And you would like them to investigate the case for you, with a view to returning the vehicle to the dealer for a refund. [if that is what you would like to do]

Of course they would try and pay you back less for the mileage you have since done, But I would counter that by claiming back all costs you have incurred at your local Ford dealer trying to rectify the problem. And of course your time like theirs costs money also, so bill them for that as well. Of course you could decide to keep the vehicle, but claim back the aforementioned costs and expenses.

One of the above is what I would do if Trading Standards agreed you had been miss sold the vehicle, which I would put money on they would.
jeebowhite
Agree entirely with Catch, they do anything they can to squeeze a few more hundred quid out of the innocent bystander! I would go back and request a copy of the job sheet (for your records) done this morning, You are entitled and should have been given a receipt / job sheet regardless of wether it had a £10,500 bill at the bottom or £0.00. They once again seem to be trying to fob you, they genuinely may have completed the work, in which case they wont mind giving you a written copy of the work they have done! otherwise, if they cant prove the work they have done, I would take it to a seperate dealer, and ask them to check the car over, should the work have been done, then you may be out of pocket, however should they confirm it is not completed, then you can wack that onto the bill!

Always get written confirmation of any work undertaken on a vehicle, something as minor as a fiver in hand, taking the wheel nuts off, fair enough, but for any work of any sort, you should always get a receipt, and job sheet.

Besides, if there is no job sheet, then no work was undertaken, and if no work was undertaken...

1) you need to watch them do the work
2) (should you pay) then maybe the tax man would be interested to know :)
Sara Fiesta
Wow lots of information from you guys thanks, I understand I'll ask for the job sheet to see what they've really done and take it from there.

I've travelled 120 miles today and the car seems more responsive towards the end of my travels, I don't know if it's just running better or all in my mind?
catch
If you were out of eloys [which I suspect was the cause of your problems] any "passive regeneration" that was attempted would not have been successful. However now the Eloys tank has been refilled, and the garage most likely dossed your fuel tank with some eloys as well [because the eloys is normally added to the fuel tank automatically when you fill up a decent amount of fuel] They will have known your fuel tank was bereft of it, hence they dossed your tank. Last thing they want to have to do is replace a knackered DPF. So I dare say in among those 120 miles today a successful "passive regeneration" of your DPF has taken place.
Sara Fiesta
Its was after the long motorway trip so what you said must of happened, why is everything so complicated now days I wish I'd researched before I bought this car!
cuke
Hi, the lack of power is unlikely to be the DPF filter, if there was a failed regen or a fault with the filter then you would have visual warnings on the dash. Personally I have no issues with the DPF on my Mk4 Mondeo diesel that is always used for short journeys, I just make sure I take it for a blast once a month. There are also Mondeos that have done in excess of 100k with no DPF problems.
Chris
digidash
job sheet is needed as your guarantee/warranty. ask them to post it. personally i would return the car under sale of goods act/trading standards laws. get your cash and buy a car from a local reputable dealer. this dealer strikes me as incompetent and/or untrustworthy. if they were competent you would have been sold the car with service book stamped and paperwork for refill, if they were to be trusted you would have been given paperwork on last visit. get a refund and go elswhere with your cash!!! if you decide you ARE going to return the car let us know your intentions and we will advise on best course of action, regards steve
Sara Fiesta
[quote name='cuke' timestamp='1306522575' post='129338']
Hi, the lack of power is unlikely to be the DPF filter, if there was a failed regen or a fault with the filter then you would have visual warnings on the dash. Personally I have no issues with the DPF on my Mk4 Mondeo diesel that is always used for short journeys, I just make sure I take it for a blast once a month. There are also Mondeos that have done in excess of 100k with no DPF problems.
Chris
[/quote]

Thanks for the information. I'll give mine a few days see how I get on, I went out last night it does seem better. if I'm still having problems then I'll go back to the dealer. :)
Sara Fiesta
[quote name='digidash' timestamp='1306533435' post='129362']
job sheet is needed as your guarantee/warranty. ask them to post it. personally i would return the car under sale of goods act/trading standards laws. get your cash and buy a car from a local reputable dealer. this dealer strikes me as incompetent and/or untrustworthy. if they were competent you would have been sold the car with service book stamped and paperwork for refill, if they were to be trusted you would have been given paperwork on last visit. get a refund and go elswhere with your cash!!! if you decide you ARE going to return the car let us know your intentions and we will advise on best course of action, regards steve
[/quote]

Thanks, does seem better, I'll give till Tuesday see how I get. I purchased the car in mid Feb if I'm still not happy can I still return it?
digidash
[quote name='Sara Fiesta' timestamp='1306574826' post='129390']
Thanks, does seem better, I'll give till Tuesday see how I get. I purchased the car in mid Feb if I'm still not happy can I still return it?
[/quote]

i would say yes....catch put a link for you read this while bearing in mind "not fit 4 purpose" (no motorways= no regens and you wern't informed it had such requirments. also you reported low power within 3 months and it STILL lacks power compared to your friends which is same year/model/engine and near enough mileage. bottom line you have TWO reasons to return...do your homework and phone trading standards and get advice which route should be first and which should be backup if plan a fails.also you will get a reference no. good luck steve
cuke
Hi, good luck with that argument, no dealer I know of informs you that having a dpf means you must do motorways, regens can occur in normal town driving quite sucessfully.
Chris
catch
[quote name='Sara Fiesta' timestamp='1306574826' post='129390']
Thanks, does seem better, I'll give till Tuesday see how I get. I purchased the car in mid Feb if I'm still not happy can I still return it?
[/quote]

Digidash is right, I have provided links, they are in my signature. I can lead members to the links but I cannot make them read them. Knowledge is power, Horses and Water.....Short answer yes you can return the car.

Now this is the last time I'm going to do the reading for you Sara :rolleyes:

Under the Sale of Goods Act, if a car develops a fault within the first six months. Trading Standards takes the view the fault was present, or the condition that caused the fault to become apparent at a later date was there at the time of purchase. Hence "not fit for purpose" And it is therefore the garages responsibility to prove that is not the case, not yours that it was.

Now in your particular case, they did not undertake the important "major service" due at circa 37.5k or the Eloy's additive top up and ECU reset. They are a Ford Main Dealer for Christs sake, they have contravened Fords own servicing schedule and warranty requirements. THEY HAVE NOT GOT A LEG TO STAND ON ....how many times do I have to tell you this...............
digidash
[quote name='cuke' timestamp='1306578552' post='129392']
Hi, good luck with that argument, no dealer I know of informs you that having a dpf means you must do motorways, regens can occur in normal town driving quite sucessfully.
Chris
[/quote]

are you saying a car will do a regen on a school run or a trip to town?? considering the extreme exhaust temperatures needed to do a regen a car round town will NOT do a regen

have a read here, this is just an example and google will find more info including one manufacturer agreeing to take back diesels and give petrol versions and difference. i cant remember which one its a couple of month since i saw it but if you have time have a look, regards steve

http://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-252478.html
catch
[quote name='digidash' timestamp='1306581135' post='129396']
are you saying a car will do a regen on a school run or a trip to town?? considering the extreme exhaust temperatures needed to do a regen a car round town will NOT do a regen [/quote]

Fearing an argument developing over requirements for a successful regeneration, I decided not to reply to the earlier poster. But your right. That said a 20 minute "robust" run up a decent A road or duel carriage way will do the trick.

[quote]have a read here, this is just an example and google will find more info including one manufacturer agreeing to take back diesels and give petrol versions and difference. i cant remember which one its a couple of month since i saw it but if you have time have a look, regards steve

http://www.vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-252478.html
[/quote]

Again I agree, there are plenty miss sold DPF equipped diesels puteling along one short one to two mile journeys to the shops and school, on cold engines.

And like that lady mentioned, not once did she experience warning messages on the dash as described in her user manual.

Sara could have been running around in limp home mode for all we know. No disrespect to Sara intended, but the wife like Sara would be as descriptive at giving you a mental picture as to how the car is preforming ....... :ph34r: Couple of year back, I have not driven our last Focus for a month or so, I knew we had a "grumbling" wheel bearing. But I got in it one day, got some speed up and it was creaming at me. I said jeez how long has it been like this, she replied oh a few weeks now, but if you drive slower it gets a lot quieter..... :rolleyes:
digidash
MMMMMM looking back at my post it may have sounded like i was a bit up myself. not intended and i am not the sort that thinks he is always right. yes i have been in the trade for years but i still learn something new nearly every day. i also feel i am a very pleasant person and wouldnt become involved in online arguments if i have opinion a and another member has opinion b it is for readers on the forum to decide what advice to take, however i may explain the logic behind my opinion so a member can understand where im coming from. anyway regards to all members steve
catch
[quote name='digidash' timestamp='1306586549' post='129401']
MMMMMM looking back at my post it may have sounded like i was a bit up myself. not intended and i am not the sort that thinks he is always right.
[/quote]


No Steve, I was referring to cuke's earlier post, not yours, so no need to explain yourself to me mate. I just did not want a new member having only made his third post on the forum, thinking............. pardon me for offering an opinion.

Anyway my bark is worse than my bite, but he ain't been on here long enough to find that out :D.....welcome to the forum cuke

Besides most people on here are here for two reasons, to increase their own knowledge base, whilst at the same time helping others if they can.......least ways that's why I'm here.
Sara Fiesta
Well been out today and it's better could they have reset something or done something else, I need that work sheet thing to see what they've done I remember them writing WTF and circling it at the top of the paper they gave to the mechanic guy, mean anything?
Sara Fiesta
Error post sorry
catch
[quote name='Sara Fiesta' timestamp='1306588278' post='129415']
Well been out today and it's better could they have reset something or done something else, I need that work sheet thing to see what they've done I remember them writing WTF and circling it at the top of the paper they gave to the mechanic guy, mean anything?
[/quote]

What The F.............
Sara Fiesta
[quote name='catch' timestamp='1306590320' post='129418']
What The F.............
[/quote]

LOL or Woman Typical Fault! 
jeebowhite
Were Totally F...ed?

Maybe they realised they screwed up...

Aaah the pleasures of DPF :) they fill everyone with a warm feeling ;)
Sara Fiesta
Hi all, just to let you know we've been away to the new forest covered nearly 700 miles with out fault cars is running like a dream. Thanks for all the advice. 
catch
[quote name='Sara Fiesta' timestamp='1307116703' post='130242']
Hi all, just to let you know we've been away to the new forest covered nearly 700 miles with out fault cars is running like a dream. Thanks for all the advice. 
[/quote]


That's good to hear Sara, and think on oodles more room than in a Fiesta. Tomorrow we are off down to Dorset for a week, so that should be a 1,000 mile trip all round. Wish I was doing it in a 1.6 TDCi on top of the extra torque, I'd be saving about £65 in fuel.

We have some friends who live top end of the Lake District near Ullswater, they are coming down to stay in our house while we are away, so they can do the Yorkshire Dales. Then when they go away in their camper van down South, we will use there house up in the Lakes. It works out really great home from homes, obviously we would only do it with friends we have known for years.
Sara Fiesta
Have a great time it's a lovely area.
Sara Fiesta
Have a great time it's a lovely area.
jeebowhite
Glad its all good now Sara! we do like it when "a plan comes together".

FOC 1 - Dealers 0 :)


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