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johnS
Hello,

Just had a full service, engine oil, spark plugs, oil filter, air filter, fuel filter and pollen filter were changed.

I'm not sure what it is, but after the service the car feels slightly slower than it did before. I dont think it's the spark plugs, but I have no idea what else could cause the slowness out of the above?

The car seems to have better acceleration in higher RPM's, but at around the rpm that I am used to feeling acceleration you can now hardly feel anything. Car has around 41,000mls


Thanks,
johnH
was this service carried out by a ford ind or dealer and was there an ECU update?

chances are the battery may have been disconnected and the BSI had reset so it will need learning to your driving style again...im not sure on this but ive heard about it.
johnS
[quote name='johnH' timestamp='1306779293' post='129672']
was this service carried out by a ford ind or dealer and was there an ECU update?

chances are the battery may have been disconnected and the BSI had reset so it will need learning to your driving style again...im not sure on this but ive heard about it.
[/quote]


Thanks for your reply.

It was not a Ford dealer it was carried out by our local garage.

And i'm pretty sure the ECU was not reset as I have a tracker on board and it did not reset as I was checking when it was in for a service.
jeebowhite
Define slower?

Underpowered? generally less responsive? major lag on throttle to acceleration?
johnS
[quote name='jeebowhite' timestamp='1306829100' post='129738']
Define slower?

Underpowered? generally less responsive? major lag on throttle to acceleration?
[/quote]


theres no lag no, i'll give an example.

Before I could feel a good pull when I put my foot down at around 1,500rpm, now when I do it, can hardly notice any acceleration untill later on in the rev range
jeebowhite
hmmm, any warning lights? or error codes?

My gut says turbo lag, and potentially a turbo issue, as turbo kicks in around 15-1800 revs...
johnS
[quote name='jeebowhite' timestamp='1306842231' post='129754']
hmmm, any warning lights? or error codes?

My gut says turbo lag, and potentially a turbo issue, as turbo kicks in around 15-1800 revs...
[/quote]


lol no I have my scanner and there are no codes. And I dont think I have a turbo?

Sorry forgot to mention it;s a 1.6L petrol engine
jeebowhite
Petrol... I thought it was a diesel... no turbo then!

so no lights, no codes, no turbo... maybe a sensor is the only thing I can think of, maybe MAF or Oxygen sensor... but then again I would have thought a code would have been thrown up!

Im struggling on where to go from here, maybe try a better grade fuel for your next tank, if it continues then its maybe worth looking further into it?
johnS
[quote name='jeebowhite' timestamp='1306847413' post='129777']
Petrol... I thought it was a diesel... no turbo then!

so no lights, no codes, no turbo... maybe a sensor is the only thing I can think of, maybe MAF or Oxygen sensor... but then again I would have thought a code would have been thrown up!

Im struggling on where to go from here, maybe try a better grade fuel for your next tank, if it continues then its maybe worth looking further into it?
[/quote]


but my thinking is that it's something that they changed or done but I dont know what!

cant an air filter do something similar? or fuel filters? Maybe it is spark plugs but I havent had enough time to see weather the other side effect of the spark plugs is happening (lower fuel mileage)
Barry_
Maybe the lower end is the same but the top end has improved but you notice it as the low end dropping off (if that makes sense)

The Zetec kicks in around 2/3'000 revs i would of thought - maybe the variable timing part of this is now working better.

My 1.8 zetec (escort) only really kicks off Acceleration wize around 2.5/3 thousand revs.

Only say this as you would expect improvement really not it being worse than before.
johnS
[quote name='Barry_' timestamp='1306848382' post='129782']
Maybe the lower end is the same but the top end has improved but you notice it as the low end dropping off (if that makes sense)

The Zetec kicks in around 2/3'000 revs i would of thought - maybe the variable timing part of this is now working better.

My 1.8 zetec (escort) only really kicks off Acceleration wize around 2.5/3 thousand revs.

Only say this as you would expect improvement really not it being worse than before.
[/quote]


possibly, but I still notice that when I floored the pedal there was more of a pull even at 1,300rpm in 2nd gear, doing the same after the service I do the same and can hardly feel a pull till later on
Barry_
Maybe something to do with Airflow into engine???

Have a check of the air filter, maybe they done something silly like left a rag in there blocking the flow (unlikely i know)
jeebowhite
If they fitted a filter the wrong way round that can cause some issues, so it may be worth taking it back and getting them to check it all over, but its too much coincidence that since they did the work its all changed. It could be worst case that they screwed it up by fitting something and damaging something else?
johnS
Thank you people for the reply.

I havent yet checked under the bonnet since before the service, so I will definatly check under there soon. Just to check, how do you open the air filter box to check the air filter?
johnH
just a few screws to open the box. is your throttle control a tension wire or electronic? in my 307 i had a wire that would pull to make the engine rev faster when it was pulled by the pedal.

anyways a garage moved a retaining clip for the wire, drove like a sack of dirty underpants. top speed was 100mph or 70mph depending on how you want to look at it ;) moved the clip and the car was a rocket after.

also does you revs and speed go up together...if not you might have clutch issues.
stef123
were the plugs genuine? I have had issues with non genuine plugs and heard a few stories about the older focus not liking certain plugs..
johnS
[quote name='johnH' timestamp='1306950039' post='129944']
just a few screws to open the box. is your throttle control a tension wire or electronic? in my 307 i had a wire that would pull to make the engine rev faster when it was pulled by the pedal.

anyways a garage moved a retaining clip for the wire, drove like a sack of dirty underpants. top speed was 100mph or 70mph depending on how you want to look at it ;) moved the clip and the car was a rocket after.

also does you revs and speed go up together...if not you might have clutch issues.
[/quote]

Thanks


There is no cruise control so I guess it's a wire rather than electronic?

if it was a wire issue, is it easy to fix by myself or is it hard?

And the rev's go up with the speed as normal, there is no clutch slip
johnS
[quote name='stef123' timestamp='1306951602' post='129955']
were the plugs genuine? I have had issues with non genuine plugs and heard a few stories about the older focus not liking certain plugs..
[/quote]


They ticked the ford genuine parts on the service book so I guess they did. I have no starting issues and the fuel economy seems around normal (although inaccurate tests at the moment) so I guess the plugs are good
jeebowhite
Just been rereading the thread, and it could be the fuel filter (sorry I missed you asking this earlier), however, I think it is the electric, as only really old cars had the wire, tended to be more assosciated with the carbeurettar than the injection. What year is your car? I think around 2000 they really went up to the electric throttle, I cant remember how you check though!

Other than the coil pack, or a really cacky filter, if they really did a genuinely good service, and replaced everything they should, the only other thing they could have done is caused an obstruction somewhere. For example, if they have shifted a fitler, and there was (for argument sake) a clot of fuel that has now been dispersed to the fuel pump and is now blocking the flow to the engine, so when you put your foot down your creating more vaccum, but if there was a blockage in the way, the fuel isnt going as quick as your right foot is!
johnS
[quote name='jeebowhite' timestamp='1307437256' post='130716']
Just been rereading the thread, and it could be the fuel filter (sorry I missed you asking this earlier), however, I think it is the electric, as only really old cars had the wire, tended to be more assosciated with the carbeurettar than the injection. What year is your car? I think around 2000 they really went up to the electric throttle, I cant remember how you check though!

Other than the coil pack, or a really cacky filter, if they really did a genuinely good service, and replaced everything they should, the only other thing they could have done is caused an obstruction somewhere. For example, if they have shifted a fitler, and there was (for argument sake) a clot of fuel that has now been dispersed to the fuel pump and is now blocking the flow to the engine, so when you put your foot down your creating more vaccum, but if there was a blockage in the way, the fuel isnt going as quick as your right foot is!
[/quote]


the year of the car is 2004. But I did think it could have been a fuel filter problem untill I decided to rev to around 6,500rpm and it did everything normal as it should, if there was restricted fuel surely the rpm (out of gear) would have been slower to come up?
jeebowhite
So the car on revving to 6500 went straight up and straight down without an issue? did it react "realtime" as you would have expected it to? if so that shows that most of the mechanics are working as they should be, however, I just dont understand why the engine, and all its responses are fine out of load, and performing so much worse under load...
johnS
[quote name='jeebowhite' timestamp='1307459264' post='130776']
So the car on revving to 6500 went straight up and straight down without an issue? did it react "realtime" as you would have expected it to? if so that shows that most of the mechanics are working as they should be, however, I just dont understand why the engine, and all its responses are fine out of load, and performing so much worse under load...
[/quote]


yup real time untill about 1,00 rpm where it sort of slowed down a tiny bit then went down to 700rpm, like it was notchy. i'm not sure thats probably normal, but yeah it was pretty much normal.

And it does seem to be a little better now, though, and I think i'm getting around 37mpg with a really heavy foot so I guess it's not all bad!
jeebowhite
I dont know if these engines have the EGR valve so it may be worth checking if you have that (might be wrong as I cant remember if it was used on earlier petrols!)
Other than that, if your getting real time response up to the red zone then its just trying to work out what between the engine and the weight of the car is the problem, and the only thing between the engine and the car moving is the clutch and gearbox.

I wonder if you may have had an underlying problem, and having the car cleaned up at its service has just highlighted the problem...?

...Kinda like washing the car then regretting it cos you see all the scratches / dents :P

Do you know if the clutch/gearbox fluid has ever been changed? do you have a full service history on the car?

The problem is that the engines responsiveness out of gear would say no engine problem, add the weight, and all of a sudden it starts losing power where it once was... which suggests maybe there is something in the engine... have you checked around the engine block for any fluid leaks? anything that might suggest a piston ring / gasket / seal has gone at all?

highly unlikely but - Do you know of any friends who have a rolling road? it might be worth getting the car to sit on the rolling road, and with the bonnet up, trying to drive it, see if there is anything shaking about any more than it should be?
johnS
[quote name='jeebowhite' timestamp='1307516603' post='130877']
I dont know if these engines have the EGR valve so it may be worth checking if you have that (might be wrong as I cant remember if it was used on earlier petrols!)
Other than that, if your getting real time response up to the red zone then its just trying to work out what between the engine and the weight of the car is the problem, and the only thing between the engine and the car moving is the clutch and gearbox.

I wonder if you may have had an underlying problem, and having the car cleaned up at its service has just highlighted the problem...?

...Kinda like washing the car then regretting it cos you see all the scratches / dents :P

Do you know if the clutch/gearbox fluid has ever been changed? do you have a full service history on the car?

The problem is that the engines responsiveness out of gear would say no engine problem, add the weight, and all of a sudden it starts losing power where it once was... which suggests maybe there is something in the engine... have you checked around the engine block for any fluid leaks? anything that might suggest a piston ring / gasket / seal has gone at all?

highly unlikely but - Do you know of any friends who have a rolling road? it might be worth getting the car to sit on the rolling road, and with the bonnet up, trying to drive it, see if there is anything shaking about any more than it should be?
[/quote]


thanks for the reply

I dont think mine has an EGR valve but could be wrong. I didnt get the revs upto the red zone either - the dash doesnt have a red zone!

I dont know if the clutch and gearbox fluid has ever been changed. It probably hasnt, could be wrong as it's a ex-rental in 2004 and they are supposed to have good servicing.

I have full service history in the sense that the book shows all services. The mileage intervals were kept to but the years were not, the previous owner didnt use the car much.

There doesnt seem to be fluid leaks anywhere, and I dont know anyone that has a rolling road!, I dont know if it's just me, though, but I think it's got slightly better, and in the higher rev range (about 2,700rpm) it seems pretty fast for a 1.6L

Thanks
johnS
forgot to mention all fluids are on max or just over
johnS
Hi,

jeebowhite you seem to be correct in saying that it may be the throttle body...I seem to have a sticky accelerator pedal when pressing it in the damp and ive herd that it's the throttle body, i've also herd that it could be the cause of this and my vibrating engine problem

theres a lot of free play in that pedal also


is it easy to fix the throttle body problem anyone?
jeebowhite
There are a few posts here where people have had to have it replaced, but I dont know if they were DIY or Garage jobs. I think its mainly DIY, but if you are uncertain after reading a Haynes manual - get the garage to do it!
johnS
[quote name='jeebowhite' timestamp='1308138624' post='131888']
There are a few posts here where people have had to have it replaced, but I dont know if they were DIY or Garage jobs. I think its mainly DIY, but if you are uncertain after reading a Haynes manual - get the garage to do it!
[/quote]


thanks, does anyone know how much it is to fix?
johnS
also the haynes manual says 3 spanners. do they mean i'm a spanner for not thinking it was this in the first place???
stef123
[quote name='johnS' timestamp='1308161405' post='131932']
also the haynes manual says 3 spanners. do they mean i'm a spanner for not thinking it was this in the first place???
[/quote]

3 spanner rating to remove and replace the throttle body? I would rate it as 2, its quite an easy job - ive done it twice in the dark..
johnS
[quote name='stef123' timestamp='1308167173' post='131944']
3 spanner rating to remove and replace the throttle body? I would rate it as 2, its quite an easy job - ive done it twice in the dark..
[/quote]


do you know if theres any other way to clean it than take it out, like fuel additives? I herd these can work...
johnS
Ok so it's months on from this incident and I still have no idea what it could be, it's pretty hard getting it up to 50mph on a small hill with air conditioning on
johnS
Should I try BG44K? I've herd it's pretty good

http://www.powerenhancer.co.uk/news/category/bg-44k-for-petrol/


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