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david295
Mk 2 focus, T reg 1.6 16v zetec.

I have had a few problems with this car since I bought it, I have sorted all but one problem, please bear with me while I explain it.

one of my problems I had was high revving on start up, and it took about 1 hour for revs to drop to mormal, this was caused by thermostate being stuck open, and head sensor detecting the car was cold so in turn kept revs high, I changed the thermostate and its now perfect.


3 weeks ago my alternator died, I called the rac, they took me to a auto electrician on the wirral, who diagnosed regulator had died, they reconed my alternator, and I bought a brand new battery a silver calcium.

Now at night time when am driving around with head lights on, if I switch on heater the lights go dim, if I press the brake pedal the lights go dim. If I press the clutch pedal the lights go dim and revs drop.

If am parked up with engine on tick over, and I press the brake pedal, the revs drop, even if I press the clutch pedal the revs drop, if i have headlights on and press the brake pedal and cluch pedal down, the engine comes very close to stalling.

I put a multi meter across the battery terminals with engine running, and am getting 19.5v, which am sure is too high.

If I switch on anything electrical when car is on tickover, the revs alter.

I was thinking about buying a brandnew alternator, but dont really want to do this if its not the problem, as I can not return it.

So I thought I would ask you guys and see what you recommend.

I would appreciate and advice and help you can give me.

Thanks.
btmaldon
[size=5][sub]This may help.[/sub][/size]

[size=5][sub][url="http://www.petercoopercarrepairs.co.uk/ford_focus_alternator_smart_charging.htm"]http://www.petercoopercarrepairs.co.uk/ford_focus_alternator_smart_charging.htm[/url][/sub][/size]

[size=5][sub]Have you jump started the car at any time as that can goose your electrics when you have Fords Smart Charging system.[/sub][/size]
Stoney871
I think your regulator is still duff.
I'd get it checked again.
david295
[quote name='btmaldon' timestamp='1340264778' post='188280']
[size=5][sub]This may help.[/sub][/size]

[size=5][sub][url="http://www.petercoopercarrepairs.co.uk/ford_focus_alternator_smart_charging.htm"]http://www.petercoop...rt_charging.htm[/url][/sub][/size]

[size=5][sub]Have you jump started the car at any time as that can goose your electrics when you have Fords Smart Charging system.[/sub][/size]
[/quote]I have never jumped started this car, thats not to say a previous owner has not done so.
david295
[quote name='Stoney871' timestamp='1340265232' post='188281']
I think your regulator is still duff.
I'd get it checked again.
[/quote]Would this cause the problems am having, I thought if regulator was duff, I would get battery light on, however saying that, you might be right, as am getting 19.5v with engine running.

What I can not understand is why it would do it with just pressing clutch down, as the clutch is done via cable, not electrics.
Andy 1965
It might be worth checking all the earth/ground points on the car. Especially around the engine bay.
david295
[quote name='Andy 1965' timestamp='1340274913' post='188301']
It might be worth checking all the earth/ground points on the car. Especially around the engine bay.
[/quote]I have allready, replaced all earth leads under bonnet with brand new ones, and new battery terminals, and added extra earth leads, cleaned up all earth points, and also added new ones.
Sorry should of said in my first post all the things i have done.

also when headlights are on, if i use electric windows, the headlights go very dim.
Stoney871
[quote name='david295' timestamp='1340274460' post='188299']
Would this cause the problems am having, I thought if regulator was duff, I would get battery light on, however saying that, you might be right, as am getting 19.5v with engine running.

What I can not understand is why it would do it with just pressing clutch down, as the clutch is done via cable, not electrics.
[/quote]

You should be getting about 14.5v with the engine running so the power is not regulating properly.
I used to have this on a Motorbike and the regulator/rectifier was shot causing blown bulbs, intermittent power fluctuations, burnt out starter and a boiled battery.
Not sure if the car has a seperate rectifier but if you were to check with Ford or an auto electrician they may be able to shed light on the matter.
The battery light will probably only come on with a low charge/reduced return voltage not overcharge.
The clutch situation may be caused by the change in revs due to the engine spinning at a different speed on clutch seperation.
So they reconditioned the alternator? Hmmm, personally i'd not use a reconditioned one as there are many small faults that could have caused it to pack up in the first place that are not necessarily evident on a bench.
I know a new alternator is not a cheap option but it may be your best route.
IMHO, the voltage is not being regulated correctly so too much power is going to the battery and not enough to the car electrics.
That regulator has to go i think.
david295
[quote name='Stoney871' timestamp='1340276558' post='188304']
You should be getting about 14.5v with the engine running so the power is not regulating properly.
I used to have this on a Motorbike and the regulator/rectifier was shot causing blown bulbs, intermittent power fluctuations, burnt out starter and a boiled battery.
Not sure if the car has a seperate rectifier but if you were to check with Ford or an auto electrician they may be able to shed light on the matter.
The battery light will probably only come on with a low charge/reduced return voltage not overcharge.
The clutch situation may be caused by the change in revs due to the engine spinning at a different speed on clutch seperation.
So they reconditioned the alternator? Hmmm, personally i'd not use a reconditioned one as there are many small faults that could have caused it to pack up in the first place that are not necessarily evident on a bench.
I know a new alternator is not a cheap option but it may be your best route.
IMHO, the voltage is not being regulated correctly so too much power is going to the battery and not enough to the car electrics.
[b]That regulator has to go i think[/b].
[/quote]I thought you where going to say that, I thought as much myself, just wanted someone else to confirm it this confirmed it for me (also when headlights are on, if i use electric windows, the headlights go very dim)

I think i will go out and buy a new alternator, i have been quoted for a brand new bosch one £115 if i give them my old one.
Stoney871
[quote name='david295' timestamp='1340276797' post='188307']
I thought you where going to say that, I thought as much myself, just wanted someone else to confirm it this confirmed it for me (also when headlights are on, if i use electric windows, the headlights go very dim)

I think i will go out and buy a new alternator, i have been quoted for a brand new bosch one £115 if i give them my old one.
[/quote]

That sounds a really good price for an alternator, i would assume that it will come with a new regulator too?
Please keep us informed of the results.
stef123
With smart charge you will see up to about 18v I believe. So 19.5v does seem high.
Personally I would take it back to who supplied the alternator or atleast give them a call
stef123
I have just bought a brand new in box genuine ford alternator for my dads focus 2006 1.8tdci - 125 so 115 seems fair
david295
Am going to go and get me new alt at 2pm, so will report back, once i've fitted it..
david295
I have just fitted alternator, and it's made no difference what so ever, the car still does not like anything electrical switched on, and it certainly does not like the clutch or brake pedal being pressed, if either are pressed, the car just barely keeps ticking over.
stef123
[quote name='david295' timestamp='1340310600' post='188428']
I have just fitted alternator, and it's made no difference what so ever, the car still does not like anything electrical switched on, and it certainly does not like the clutch or brake pedal being pressed, if either are pressed, the car just barely keeps ticking over.
[/quote]

unplug the 3 pin connector from the alternator while the engine is running and try things...does it help?
david295
I have tried this, it makes no difference at all.
Andy 1965
Sounds like a bad earth or short circuit of some sort to me!
david295
I have not got a clue what it could be, now if I disconnect 3 pin plug on alt, and start engine, the battery light on dash comes on after about 60 seconds.
Andy 1965
The battery light will come on if you disconnect the three pin plug. However, are the symptoms the same with it unplugged? Or is it better?
david295
I would say they are a bit better as the revs don't drop as bad as they did., but I can still notice a drop in engine revs when I switch on headlights, or press brake pedal so rear lights come on
Andy 1965
David, to me it sounds like maybe water ingress somewhere causing a short circuit or rust, given the age of the car. Check all the fuses for correct rating. If one continually blows, then you have narrowed it down a bit. Electrics on the car can be a bit of a nightmare. You will get a wee flicker on your lights or when you press the brake pedal. This is down to the Ford 'smart charging' system. When I press the brake when coasting, the revs go up to 900 and then settle down to 750. This is normal for these cars.
david295
I chaecked all fuses this morning, they are all correct, and none where blown, I noticed the ones in engine bay fuse box, the terminals where not very clean on fuses, so i cleaned them all.

Surley its not normal for lights to go dim, am not talking a little dim.
Andy 1965
It sounds like a bad earth or a short circuit to me.
david295
Do you know where all earth points are, I have renewed, battery terminals, and earth point on body next to battery, also one on back top of engine just above exhaust manifold to body, I can't see any more under the bonnet
Andy 1965
I don't know where they all are, but they are quite easy to spot. Just take your time, in good daylight with a decent torch to check underneath the engine bay. I think there is a couple on the front of the inner wings .
Lenny
if anyone has a haynes manual for the mk1 and mk1.5
the earth points are in a list within the manual ive tried ford microcat but its showing all cables and not just the earth points so its usless to you mate, but the haynes manual would be ideal if someone could take the time to type up the locations on here for you.
Stoney871
[quote name='Lenny' timestamp='1340574725' post='188870']
would be ideal if someone could take the time to type up the locations on here for you.
[/quote]

That will be me then ;)

Here you go -

Battery ground strap
Right hand "A" pillar X2
Left hand front of engine compartment
Left hand "A" pillar
Left hand side engine compartment X 2
Tailgate
Left hand luggage compartment
Left hand Engine bulkhead
Right hand Engine bulkhead

Hope that's of help to you.
david295
Thank you, will go check for them all and clean them up.
david295
Just been to another garage, he said as there is no history about cam belt, and with car having over 126 thousand miles on it, it's likely cam belt may of slipped, and timing may be slightly out.

He said that would cause it to not run right if it has slipped.

What do you guys think to that.
STEADS
I would say touting for business although belt would need doing at that mileage i dont think this is your problem like others have said pointing in the direction of bad earth loose conection to me there are no leads chaffing on body work anywhere just a thought but i would think that would blow a fuse myself i would double check all the earths again
david295
I have checked all earths, disconnected them all, cleaned them all, and reconnected them, its made no difference.
david295
[u]Update:[/u]

I have found that, if I totally disconnect alt, (3 pin plug, and thick red power lead) and then start engine, I can switch on lights heater etc etc, and lights do not go dim revs do not drop.

But reconnect alt and all problems start, alt is kicking out 14.7v
Stoney871
Regulator then?
david295
just fitted another brand new alt, and its still the same
Stoney871
Jesus, you're having no luck at all are you?
I think an auto electrician is needed.
david295
I called RAC out again, after I fitted new alt, he checked voltage at battery not started, and with engine running, he says its perfect.

He can not understand why as soon as any load is switched on, engine goes weird, and lights dim, as the charging system and battery are perfect.

I have come to the end of what i can do now, am going to Fords tomorrow, and get them to fix it. No doubt it will cost me a fortune.
david295
Can I just throw this your way guys.

A friend just took look at my car, he says idle control valve (his reason is)

With engine running, he disconnected idle control valve, revs drop to to nice and quite, no shaking.
Turned on all electrical items, and revs did not alter, no engine shaking absolutely perfect, no diming lights.

What do you reckon.
Stoney871
It does look like the source may have been detected.
Definitely worth replacing it.
david295
Going to collect new one at 3pm, will report back and let you's know outcome.
Stoney871
Ok mate, please do.
james_60
we all wait patiently :-)

Jamie
david295
New ICV fitted, no difference, now booked in to fords monday
Andy 1965
Maybe the ICV wiring plug is causing a short when plugged in?
david295
[b]Fords have just looked at car, they say no faults found.[/b]

[b]Am stumped now.[/b]

[b]What is correct idle speed? Mine idles at 1 line below 1, and when i switch on heater or headlights or press on brake pedal, just enough for brake lights to come on, it goes down to 2 lines below 1, could i just turn screaw to increase idle.[/b]

[b]I will give £200 Cash to any one that can come and sort this for me please[/b]
Andy 1965
The car should idle at 750 rpm. If it was running fine with the ICV unplugged, why not just run it like that for a while and see how you go. Given the year of your car, I would still say an earthing/short circuit problem. Maybe a possibility of the ECU not receiving information, due to some sort of corruption/water ingress,etc.
james_60
did they update the ecu/pcm etc etc

Jamie
david295
They said there was no update.

I honestly can not see it being an earth issue, the reason I say this, is:

If I totally disconnect alternator, remove 3 pin plug and power lead, and start car and switch on all lights heater etc etc, engine revs do not alter, lights do not dim etc etc.

So I don't think its a earth problem, alt is a 80amp one, I was going to go for a 110amp, but did not know if this would cause problems, as factory one is 80amp, I stuck with 80.

This is really bugging me now, I bet it turns out to be something small thats causing this.

If I where to get a ecu from a donor car, what bits do i need to get with it to make car run.

I know am clutching at straws but I desperatley want to correct this problem, so will try anything.
stef123
Disconnecting the 3 pin makes the alternator act as a conventional one without input from the ecu about demand or load.
So of its playing up with it connected then It would seem the ecu is not doing as it should
david295
We all know it takes a live and neg for a bulb to work, so drivers side headlight, i cut the earth wire, but yet headlight still works, not bright, but it does work.

Where is the main earth wire for front lights, am thinking disconnect original earths, and put new earth in for front and back lights.
Stoney871
Pretty sure the earth is front right side of engine bay.
You could just run straight to the battery earth strap.


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