Hi all,

Unfortunately, my first [i]proper [/i]post is going to have to be a problem one Anyway, bought a second hand Focus Ghia Mk2 for my wife a few weeks back. It hadnt really been driven properly since then as we were sorting out insurance etc, but yeaterday I noticed some fluid in the drivers footwell.

I traced it back, and after removing the side trim of the centre console, I (awkwardly) got a look at the pipes and electrics that are above the pedals. There seems to be a slow leak coming from the join a particualr pipe. I've added two pictures, one showing where it is in relation to the clutch pedal and one showing the join a bit more.

Can anyone identify this pipe for me? Click for larger versions:





Two reasons. First, I recently had the car put into Halfords Auto Centre to perform an airconditioning service, as it wasnt working when we bought the car. I hadn't noticed any discharge when we bought the car, test drove it, collected it etc, so I'm wondering if this is a leak due to the coolant/etc that had been replaced for the AC service.

I left something under it overnight, and nothing, so only seems to leak when under pressure. What I haven't tried is drivng it but without using the air conditioning, so will try that later. Finally, the pipe is hot to touch when I discovered the leak, so it seems like its something to do with the heating and cooling system...

Secondly, any ideas about stopping the leak? It doesn't seem to be a nut that I can tighten, but i did notice an adjacent pipe had a black plastic part over its join - does that help to hold it together?

Any ideas on all the above would be great and appreciated.

Many thanks
Jonny

Heater matrix or air con pipe does it get hot when car running if not its the air con i think the rubber ones are for the heater matrix althougth i have seen ally ones fitteed to some cars if it is the air con and you can live without it i,d just get it drained

Heater matrix pipe.

Thanks for the replies. Well, took it for a drive for a few minutes without the aircon, and nothing coming off it when I checked after, though it was only a few minutes. it did get hot, so does seem like the heater matrix pipe.

What actually is flowing through this pipe? Would it be coolant from the reservoir in the engine bay? And what is it used for? If its nothing to do with the airconditioning, then wont bother taking it back to the garage that did the aircon service, and maybe see if I can seal the join somehow.

JP

yes its coolant so would need to be replaced have you noticed the level go down in the expansion tank will lead to you having no heater in the winter and possible other problems if you leave it and you loose to much coolant i.e head gasket so act now inexpensive cure could save a bigger bill later on

thats a potentialy expensive job get it bk to the garage asap for repair the aircon may have just been low or may have a leak use the aircon and see if it lasts it

[quote name='STEADS' timestamp='1345984686' post='203379']yes its coolant so would need to be replaced have you noticed the level go down in the expansion tank will lead to you having no heater in the winter and possible other problems if you leave it and you loose to much coolant i.e head gasket so act now inexpensive cure could save a bigger bill later on[/quote]

Level is still within the mix/max lines and has been driven for about a week I'd say, and the leak isnt a heavy one by any means - though I definitely know its a problem to be dealt with.

[quote name='artscot79' timestamp='1345989521' post='203400']thats a potentialy expensive job get it bk to the garage asap for repair the aircon may have just been low or may have a leak use the aircon and see if it lasts it[/quote]

Would it really be that expensive to fix that pipe? I'm guessing that they would want something to take it out etc. which seems like it would be labour intensive...

Cars, gotta love them!!!
JP

its under pressure so 1 the cooling system relies on pressure it raises the boiling point of the coolant if theres a leak even small the pressure will never build up enough add to that the pressure can force the split open the heater wont work properly and theres electrical wiring also you have moisture getting into the car id lift the driver side carpet to check if its wet and if theres rust .
dependant on what you paid you still have by law a 3month warranty on the car so dont wait around take it back or you could face bills beyond 600 quid shortly

[quote name='artscot79' timestamp='1345994335' post='203423']
its under pressure so 1 the cooling system relies on pressure it raises the boiling point of the coolant if theres a leak even small the pressure will never build up enough add to that the pressure can force the split open the heater wont work properly and theres electrical wiring also you have moisture getting into the car id lift the driver side carpet to check if its wet and if theres rust . dependant on what you paid you still have by law a 3month warranty on the car so dont wait around take it back or you could face bills beyond 600 quid shortly
[/quote]

Blimey that doesn't sound good. We paid £3100 for the car 2 weeks ago. That came with a 6 month third party warranty with a company called Auto Protect, and covers [i]mechanical breakdown[/i] of listed items (of which the heater matrix is on there, but not explicitly pipework related to the heating system).

I'll have a look around to see what the legislation is this 3 month warranty that they have to give different to the above. I can see the dealer saying they dont have to cover it, and I can see the third party provided just saying that its not covered.

This is going to be fun
JP

the leak will be covered on your normal warranty through the garage those extra warranties are not worth the paper there written on always a get out clause ie because its connected to a part that isnt covered had this prob on my range rover warranty .

That's a pipe for the a/c, the 2 rubber ones behind it are for the matrix. I have never come across alloy pipes for a heater matrix

What colour is the leaking liquid?

can you get a better pic of the part circled in red?

ill pop the cover off when i get home and have a look at this pipe and see where it goes

steffs right aircon pipe from the drier to the evaporator which can be just as expensive as it will need new aircon pipes fitted the sysyem tested and flushed and refilled providing everything else is okay

[quote name='STEADS' timestamp='1345999384' post='203447']the leak will be covered on your normal warranty through the garage those extra warranties are not worth the paper there written on always a get out clause ie because its connected to a part that isnt covered had this prob on my range rover warranty .
[/quote]

Right, so the 'normal' warranty you talk about is the 3 month one that car dealers have to provide by law? I think this is always going to be a tricky thing, so just want to make sure of what I can go back and say is the dealer liability - googling brings up so many different opinions on the matter

[quote name='stef123' timestamp='1345999387' post='203448']
That's a pipe for the a/c, the 2 rubber ones behind it are for the matrix. I have never come across alloy pipes for a heater matrix. What colour is the leaking liquid? can you get a better pic of the part circled in red?
[/quote]

Makes more sense as it would explain why I never noticed anything there before, as we only got the air con service done on Tuesday. Have to say that I'm not 100% sure of the colour. Will have to give it a drive with the AC on see what comes out. I would say its quite a pale/light colour though. Will also try and contort myself to get a better pic of the join.

[quote name='artscot79' timestamp='1346009952' post='203479']
steffs right aircon pipe from the drier to the evaporator which can be just as expensive as it will need new aircon pipes fitted the sysyem tested and flushed and refilled providing everything else is okay
[/quote]

Well, that sounds like its going to be quite labour intensive Going to try and gather any information regarding what I can and cant say to the dealer and see if I can get him to cover any costs, as it was sold with functioning AC, and even though I dont mind paying for a regas, if the pipework fundamentally doesnt allow it to work properly then surely that must be something they are liable for?

Really appreciate the help though - much appreciated.

Jonny

by law dealers must supply a 3mnth warranty with the car i know as a dealer i know had to fit a new engine to a car.
its covered under the sale of goods act any citizens advice can tell you this it also shows that a leak test wasnt done during the aircon service i advise calling the dealer first thing a.m and take it from there but you have to do it now

Just been reading about the Sale of Goods Act just now (Yes, so rock and roll). I may give the Halfords Auto Centre a call too, to see what sort of costs would be involved, so that I can give that as a figure to the dealer. He might be ok about it and then I can proceed. As its in within the 3 months, he'll have to prove that the fault [i]didn't [/i]exist at the time of sale, which will be tough, seeing as the airconditioning wasnt cold/working ie. No refridgerant or system oil = no leaks possible.

I definitely want it fixed somewhere independant, in case his preferred fixer just does a bodge job to stop the leak, without properly fixing it. And if all else fails, it was bought on wifes credit card, so can try to claim from them it all turns a bit ugly. Let see how much of a nice chap the dealer actually is...

this type of job needs done by either ford or a aircon specialist not halfords they dont have a clue ford will put a leak detection dye in the system then check under uv light for the leak and replace whatever is causing the leak replace and retest the system before filling it up

take it back to where you bought it and let them sort it out...as people have mentioned the car will be under warranty...dont pay anything for them to do this work, its their problem.

by taking elsewhere you could be invalidating this. let them worry about it.

if they, for some reason refuse, you can legally take the car back state "its not fit for purpose" and get a full refund.

EDIT - further to last i agree that this is an aircon pipe...its looks like the rest of them in the engine bay. the coolant pipes are the black rubber ones. but looking closely at the second picture it looks as though a rubber seal is missing.

EDIT 2 - by any chance the leak that you mentioned, was it just a drip? if you can do a sniff test on the parts its landing on...i would dare say its just condensation

I only suggested them Halfords Autocentre (not the main stores, but garage franchise), as thats where the aircon service was done (and even then I only went there as they were the preferred fixer for the third party warranty firm). They did say that they placed UV dye in as well as part of the leak test, but looks like they didnt run/pressurise the system enough to see it. However they did say that it might take a bit of time for the leak to manifest, and if it did, then they would look at it again and refill anything need free of charge. I've tried to contact my local Ford and also Halfords Autocentre, but everyone seems to be MIA for the BH.

I kind of want to take it to some independent place, as I dont just want him to take it to some garage he knows and they might just do a quick fix job. Not sure if I am able to insist on where the repair is to be done. Will have to try and get in touch with the dealer again later, or at least tomorrow morning. Would be easiest to just say you take it, but would ideally like to give it back to my local ford once he has agreed to pay. Feel I am in a better position now, after readin up on my rights, just need to actually get through to him now.

I have exactly the same leaking pipe problem on my 2005 Focus. A drop every few seconds. I took it to the garage assuming they would only replace the plastic ring and any inside seal. They called me back and said the heater matrix needs to be replaced as well for £500 as it is apparently leaking!!!!! I am not sure if I should believe them as the only leak I saw was from that pipe and it coresponded to the amount of coolant being lost - aboult half a litre per hour.

Did you manage to get your car fixed? What needed replacing and how much did it cost? This informatin will be really useful tomorow when I am ging to the garage.

Thank you!