October 10, 2012, 12:39 am
Hi Guys this is my first post but i have read the site on and off for some time.
I am so unfortunate to live in a country that hate cars and therefore taxes them quite hard. So I did what most people do I bought the entry level 2010 Mondeo TDCI 2.0 with 115 HP wich even after a big discount cost over 34.000 £ .
I’m happy with the car but I wish I had the cash to buy a more powerful version. Therefore I have been looking at getting the car chip tuned for a while now. The standard tuning with the boxes offer me about 25 extra HP and a more flat Torque curve. The boxes all have in common that the different versions of the 2.0 gain the same 25-30 hp. But then I found BSR Tuning which offers ODB tuning and promises that my car would have 199 HP after the tune.
This is just phenomenal and would turn my rather slow car into a rocket (at least by my standards :-) But I have worries about such a high increase in power because isn’t there other difrences betreen a 115, 140 and a 163 HP 2.0 TDCI than the values in the ECU? Also how about the brakes clutch etc.
So I was wondering if any of you have experience with this tune or have information about the physical difference for the different models of 2.0 TDCI’s
You can find the tune kit here [url="http://www.bsr-tuning.co.uk/products/t2275/"]http://www.bsr-tuning.co.uk/products/t2275/[/url] i know it says not available but they are already selling it in other countries so i hope that some of you have experience.
October 18, 2012, 8:49 pm
Sorry to burst your bubble.
there is no way a remap/tuning box will give you that much power increase.
The Brakes are not up to it. The Clutch would not take it.
If you had the 163bhp engine then you maybe able to get it to 199-200
To increase the gain you would need :-
Sports exhaust system
Free flowing air filter
Overhaul the suspension
an 85bhp increase on an older car also will put mega strain on all other components.
In my opinion buy a 2.0 163bhp mondeo
October 26, 2012, 10:36 am
Hi thanks for the reply, and dont worry you are not bursting any bubbles as I’m quite skeptical myself.
If you read my question again you can actually see that I’m interested in finding out if there are other differences between my car and the larger variants other than settings in the ECU. I would myself expect that there are some differences but also some similarities. As I understand it The Econetic 2,0 115 HP has basicly the same engine as the larger 140 and 163 hp. I also understand that is produced in limited numbers as it was target to get below 140 g CO2 which in some countries equates to a lower tax rate. So it could be that it was cheaper for Ford to simply detune a 140 hp version than doing big changes to a model they knew would be exchanged with the new 1,6l engine.
However finding complete parts list is impossible so I was hoping some of you might have the information. The only difference I aware of is that my car actually has a 10 mm lower suspension than the 140 hp version in order to reduce air resistance.
buying the more powerful car s not an option. As I said I live in a car unfriendly country and a 163 hp version cost almost 48.000 pound. And since I might only get 20.000 pounds for my current it is not an option.
October 30, 2012, 3:11 am
The chances are the engines are identical apart from the map, as you have said its for different taxation classes for different countries etc, instead of making a special 115 engine or 140 engine they electronically detune (using a map) a 163 engine
it is to save money
it is a factory restriction or a power >decrease< from 200/163 down to 115 - the remap is >derestricting< the engine - or bringing it back up to what it should have been
the cars probably have the same brakes (with the possible exeption of the Focus ST)
To give you an example, in the Mondeo mk3s, the entire range had the same brakes - from the 150mph 220HP 3.0L v6 ST220, to the lowly 1.8. All the mk3 Mondeo turbo - diesels had the same intercooler - from the TDDI 115 to the ST-TDCI 2.2 155
Do some checking online - see if the same parts (clutch brakes etc) fit the different models - i bet they do!
November 2, 2012, 9:29 pm
I have the same scepticism as above, but for slightly different reasons.
Brakes may be adequate, with slightly harder pads; for tyres I don't think that you'd want the smallest combination of wheels and tyres with that much power (and that's what you probably have on an 'eco' model), but probably something like Titanium or Ghia wheels and tyres will do it.
On the other hand, I can see re-mapping getting you an easy 10 hp (which, given how tuners do maths may well be claimed as 25 hp, or maybe I'm just a bit too sceptical).
I'm not sure about your spec of engine, but it could have only 8 valves (the earlier 1.8 economy model did, the mainstream 2.0 have 16, and my feeling is that it would be ambitious to promise much more than ~160 bhp out of the 8 valve, even with other mods).
My guess is that you have a smaller turbo than the 140/163 bhp engines and that would need replacing to get over 160 bhp and perhaps even over ~130, depending on how small the turbo has gone.
Also, the intercooler; I'd guess you'd need quite a chunky intercooler to cope with ~200 hp, and you may not even have an intercooler at all. There is probably a medium sized intercooler on the 140/163 hp engines and you probably need something like that (maybe in nice, shiny aluminium) to get to that level of HP.
If (and that is a big [i]if[/i]) all you need is a replacement turbo, a new intercooler and a remap, you aren't going get those for the price suggested, hence my scepticism. You could try phoning them up and telling them that you are interested but only of every one of those horses turn up - if they deliver the power in an independant test you'll pay (and the engine is reliable, of course), otherwise it is free. I don't know what exactly they'll say, but I'd guess that the second word would be 'off!'.
[quote]...basicly the same engine...[/quote]
Well, it could be the same engine block (probably is) without it having the same turbo, intercooler or head. The 8v head would save them significant cash (if the existing 8v head would work), as would the smaller/no intercooler as would the smaller turbo. In effect, this would be the earlier 'eco' engine with a different (but already available) block/pistons/crank and a remap, so the engineering costs would be quite low as it just re-assembles, in a Lego kind of way, already available parts (plus that re-map, of course).
When the latest Mondeo was introduced, they didn't even have a 163 bhp diesel (so they probably hadn't even completed the development of all the parts that they wanted), so I doubt that the 163 bhp version is being detuned to make 115 bhp, because I think that at least something needed developing in order to get the power. Otherwise, why wasn't 163 bhp available earlier, there would certainly have been some demand?
November 4, 2012, 2:04 am
All the mk3 (00- 07) and mk4 (06 - ) diesel Mondeos imported to the UK had 16v heads with no exeptions - there are no 8v versions
all mk3 deisels Mondeos imported to the uk had the same imtercoolers, the mk4s are probably the same
all mk3 mondeos have the same brakes, the 150mph ST220 to the 1.8 Lx the mk4s are probably the same
The smallest (non spacesaver) tyres available are 205/55/16 - these are quite big, wide tyres compared to what powerful gt and sports cars used in the 70s 80s and even the 90s, 163 Hp is not a lot of power compared to a performance car or a hot hatch - ive driven cars with a lot more power than 163hp with much smaller brakes and narrower tyres than an "eco" mk4 mondeo
160hp is not a lot of power to get out of a modern diesel engine - a completely standard BMW 320D makes 181Hp, this is "normal" for a modern engine - it is not regarded as a "performance" engine in 2012
163Hp = normal
115Hp = electronically restricted version of same engine
163Hp / 140Hp/ 130Hp/ 115Hp - different versions of the PSA (Pugeot / Citroen) / Ford joint venture - the same engine is used in many cars, and makes of car (to reduce costs) sometimes different makes are "badge engineered" and identical apart from cosmetics
the 163 2.0L engine was introduced to replace the 175 2.2L engine in the Mondeo mk4 line up, it is a 115/130/140 with a different map, they are (were) all made on the same production line with the same parts, this reduces costs - all the parts are the same - they have different maps (phisically the same/ electronically different)
November 13, 2012, 5:02 pm
[quote name='BOF' timestamp='1351891778' post='214970']
I have the same scepticism as above, but for slightly different reasons.
Hi thanks for your reply, i know i’m a bit late on the answer but I don’t check the email i used for this account that much.
I do agree on many of your points as they are quite similar to the thoughts I had myself. But some of the things you mention should not be a problem.
Wheels, actually the standard tire on my model was a 215/60-16 and today the 163 hp engine do sell with the 205/55-16 tire. But besides this I run 18” in the summer so that should not be a concern except for the fact that I need to get tires with a higher speed grade for my winter tires.
8 valves, this is not an issue my engine is 16 valve. It was only the 1,8 tdci that was 8 valve (at least when I bought mine)
Intercooler, as far as I know I have a intercooler on my car, but I agree it might be smaller than the one on the 163 hp edition.
Turbo I do agree that this might be one of the ways ford could have saved some money by fitting a smaller turbo. Unfortunately I cannot find any sites selling original turbo or intercoolers so I cannot do a check on those parts.
I have compared other parts such as suspension, brakes etc and most of them seems to be identical on all 2.0 TDCI’s
FOCA>>I it would be nice if it was actually true but I would tend to believe that the 140 hp version is the standard as the 163 version was introduced later.
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