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adrian109
I have just bought a second hand fob from ebay it doesn't have a new key blank as yet, its just the remote fob. I have sucessfully programmed the fob so that it can open and lock the doors remotely from the fob.

The problem I am having is I can't get the fob to start the engine with the existing key shaft from another key that is already paired.

I have followed the instructions of using two existing paired keys and putting them in one by one switching from 0 to II on the ignition to get me into the pats programming mode. As I am only holding the remote key fobs onto the key shaft it allows me to quickly swap the paired key fob over with the one I bought off ebay. I turn this from position 0 to II and remove the key.

Then I wait a while and try the new fob, it starts the engine, but it takes a few seconds longer than the working key would normally take to start the engine, but it does start the engine eventually.

The problem I am facing is that the key from eBay will only start the engine ONCE after I have run the pats programming procedure. After that it fails to start the engine anymore.

I then read about erasing all other keys apart from the original paired two, so I tried that hoping that the car already had known keys to it and it wasn't allowing the new key to be paired.

I ran the procedure in the book for erasing the other keys, then I re-ran the pats programming to pair the ebay key but I'm still having the same issue, the key will only ever start the car ONCE!

Any idea what I might be doing wrong or what could be the problem?

Your help would be very welcomed.

Thanks. (sorry for the long post!
SierraYankee99
It could be that the fob you bought is from a mondeo. Different chips in them matey. You could transfer the chip from your old fob to the new one. This is an old Mondeo trick to make Jag flip keys work on the Mk3 Mondeo (the Jag uses the same chips as the focus). Also you shouldnt need a new keyshaft, the PATS chip is in the fob not the shaft, just clip it to the new fob when you finally get it to work.
adrian109
[quote name='SierraYankee99' post='13221' date='Feb 25 2009, 10:07 AM']It could be that the fob you bought is from a mondeo. Different chips in them matey. You could transfer the chip from your old fob to the new one. This is an old Mondeo trick to make Jag flip keys work on the Mk3 Mondeo (the Jag uses the same chips as the focus). Also you shouldnt need a new keyshaft, the PATS chip is in the fob not the shaft, just clip it to the new fob when you finally get it to work.[/quote]

I think you maybe right!

I thought I had bought the fob off ebay with the excat same part number but it appears now that they are slightly different:
Original fob: 98[b]B[/b]G15K601AA
ebay fob: 98[b]A[/b]G15K601AA

I know that my original fob had another shorter number underneath the long part number which was 725. If I look for another fob on ebay with the correct part number this time do I also have to match the shorter number too (i.e. will a non matching shorter number effect how it communicates with the car?)
SierraYankee99
Possibly different frequency chips. As I said it is possible to take the chip out of your old keyfob and put it in the new keyfob and the car will think its the same fob and it'll start.
adrian109
[quote name='SierraYankee99' post='13225' date='Feb 25 2009, 11:05 AM']Possibly different frequency chips. As I said it is possible to take the chip out of your old keyfob and put it in the new keyfob and the car will think its the same fob and it'll start.[/quote]

I need both fobs to work so that is not an option for me.
SierraYankee99
You could get a Jag flip key off e-bay?
adrian109
If it was the wrong chip inside surely it wouldn't start the car full stop? Don't understand why it can start it once and never again until it is re-programmed.
SierraYankee99
The PATS system might well recognise theres a chip and let it start the car once but it can't remember the chip as it doesnt know how to save its data. PATS is just a piece of software on a computer after all. I'll stand by my diagnosis, cos theres honestly no other logical explanation I can think of. The only other thing it could be is user programming of PATs is turned off by Ford, but then you wouldnt get it to accept the code in the first place.
gaz6076
What mk focus is it you have?

If its a mk2, what type key is it? (normal or flip)

And whats the immobiliser light doing?
adrian109
[quote name='gaz6076' post='13268' date='Feb 25 2009, 07:06 PM']What mk focus is it you have?

If its a mk2, what type key is it? (normal or flip)

And whats the immobiliser light doing?[/quote]

I have just doubled check the part numbers on both fobs and have found that they are exactly same and not different as I first thought.

Its a 1998 MK1 Focus S Reg. With the 3 button remote fob (lock, unlock and tailgate buttons)

Is the immobiliser light the one near the clock? If so I can't say I have noticed much difference although not sure what I should be seeing from it.

I have heard audible beeps when programming the fob for remote locking/unlocking which works fine.

I hope you guys can shed some light on a possible problem.

Many Thanks.
gaz6076
I think the immobiliser light it right next to the clock or inside it. Should flash red.

Switch the ignition on and it should illuminate for 3-5 seconds. If it flashes rapidly for bout a minute then at irregular intervals then the key code is not recognized. Remove the key and try again.

This is how you should be programming the keys;

Get all keys with remote control
Fasten seat belts and close all doors. (Avoids any other warning beeps)
Turn ignition switch from position 1 to position 2 four times within six seconds
Turn ignition switch to position 1
The programming mode is now activated for 10seconds
Press and hold any button on your key and wait for the beep. Your key should now be programmed.
Repeat for every key you have. Maximum of four.
To exit the programming more turn ignition to position 3 or wait 10 seconds.

If you still have a problem you may need to reprogram the immobiliser. Let me no how you get on and if needed I will post a how to.
adrian109
[quote name='gaz6076' post='13313' date='Feb 25 2009, 09:02 PM']I think the immobiliser light it right next to the clock or inside it. Should flash red.

Switch the ignition on and it should illuminate for 3-5 seconds. If it flashes rapidly for bout a minute then at irregular intervals then the key code is not recognized. Remove the key and try again.

This is how you should be programming the keys;

Get all keys with remote control
Fasten seat belts and close all doors. (Avoids any other warning beeps)
Turn ignition switch from position 1 to position 2 four times within six seconds
Turn ignition switch to position 1
The programming mode is now activated for 10seconds
Press and hold any button on your key and wait for the beep. Your key should now be programmed.
Repeat for every key you have. Maximum of four.
To exit the programming more turn ignition to position 3 or wait 10 seconds.

If you still have a problem you may need to reprogram the immobiliser. Let me no how you get on and if needed I will post a how to.[/quote]

I have done the above before and it works. The problem I am having is getting the key programmed correctly for the immobiliser. I have run the procedure for the pats immobiliser several times, the key gets codes and will start the engine but only once to get it to start the engine again it has to be recoded.

Perhaps you could give me the procedure for the immobiliser programming so I can double check I am doing it right. Have also tried erasing the keys too incase the memory was full but still no luck.
adrian109
I think I am right in thinking that you are allowed to program a maximum of 4 remote key fobs to the car.

I have just had a thought, all the fob part numbers I have seen for my car either end in A, B, C or D. So essentially 4 different part codes as shown below:

98AG15K601A[b]A[/b]
98AG15K601A[b]B[/b]
98AG15K601A[b]C[/b]
98AG15K601A[b]D[/b]

Am wondering now whether you are suppose to have a keys with a different part numbers. I tried to program two duplicate part numbered keys and wondering if thats why the second one failed to work.

Is this a stupid theory?
SierraYankee99
Not a stupid theory Adrian, cant see it being correct though. I've got a Jag X type keyfob coded to my car and thats not got a ford part number on it at all. Before anyone picks me up I know the Jag Xtype and Focus share the same PATS and central locking systems. The Jag X-type is essentially a Mondeo.
gaz6076
[quote name='adrian109' post='13386' date='Feb 26 2009, 05:00 PM']I think I am right in thinking that you are allowed to program a maximum of 4 remote key fobs to the car.

I have just had a thought, all the fob part numbers I have seen for my car either end in A, B, C or D. So essentially 4 different part codes as shown below:

98AG15K601A[b]A[/b]
98AG15K601A[b]B[/b]
98AG15K601A[b]C[/b]
98AG15K601A[b]D[/b]

Am wondering now whether you are suppose to have a keys with a different part numbers. I tried to program two duplicate part numbered keys and wondering if thats why the second one failed to work.

Is this a stupid theory?[/quote]

Its not a stupid theory but don't think it the right one. Like SierraYankee99 said the jag keys work fine.

As I said in my previous post you can only programme 4 remote keys. You can have a maximum of 8 keys.

Here's the procedure for reprogramming the immobiliser. This my not work tho as reprogramming the immobiliser by using the keys can be turned off by using the diagnostic equipment.

You need 2 programmed keys. We'll call them A and B
Turn the ignition to position 2 with key A and wait 1 second
Remove key A and insert key B within 5 seconds
Turn to position 2 and wait 1 second them remove key B
Within 10 seconds insert the key your having the problem with
Turn to position 2 and wait 4 seconds
Switch ignition off and wait 5 seconds
Start engine

If the engine doesn't start and the immobiliser light flashes;

Switch ignition on and wait at least 20 seconds
Switch ignition of and restart the programming

Try it a few times and if it still doesn't work think your gonna have to take a trip to the dealers :(
SierraYankee99
The thing that makes me wonder most, which Adrian has stated himself, is that it starts the car once then thats it the car forgets the key. I'm seriously starting to think yours is one of the few Ford set up with user programming of PATs turned off. Gaz, what do you think, would it be feasable that the car learns the code, but when the ignition is turned off again its set not to remember the code permanently????
gaz6076
[quote name='SierraYankee99' post='13413' date='Feb 26 2009, 06:52 PM']The thing that makes me wonder most, which Adrian has stated himself, is that it starts the car once then thats it the car forgets the key. I'm seriously starting to think yours is one of the few Ford set up with user programming of PATs turned off. Gaz, what do you think, would it be feasable that the car learns the code, but when the ignition is turned off again its set not to remember the code permanently????[/quote]


Don't know about the remote keys but with the normal keys you can use them once even if they aren't programmed. As long as you used a programmed key before using the unprogrammed one. I did this with a ka once. Used the new key after just getting it cut without thinking. It started the car fine when the owner was standing next to me. Then turned the engine of and handed them the keys. They went to set off but couldn't get the car to start using the new key! :lol:
SierraYankee99
So that could well be the problem then.
gaz6076
Could well be. But if hes reprogramming the key right then why is it still doing it?
SierraYankee99
Because user programming is disabled. As you stated if you use an unknown key it works once as long as a known key was used before it, which is what he is saying is happening. Therefore we dont actually know if the car is in PATS learning mode as it doesnt chime or anything when programming PATS. Least mine didnt when I programmed my jag keyfob.
gaz6076
I thought it said in a previous post that it did chime. Must of been in another topic

If it doesn't chime after holding the key fob button down then the PATS programming must be disabled
SierraYankee99
Mine deffo didnt chime when programming PATS just when programming central locking.
gaz6076
To the best of my knowledge, you can always programme the remote central locking even if PATS is turned off. But you cant programme it to the immobiliser. Which would explain in this case why the car will only start once with the new key.

No chimes = PATS off? Pretty sure, correct me if I'm wrong
SierraYankee99
PATS is the immobilisor mate. Passive Anti Theft System. I believe on earlier fords PATS1 controlled a seperate immobiliser Bosch I believe, on early mondeos this is true. Then with PATS2 which is what all current Fords have it was more integrated into the engine management system rather than a seperate immobiliser
gaz6076
Sorry, what I ment was;

No chimes = the ability to programme the key to PATS by using the keys has been turned off
SierraYankee99
Cant be, mine definitely had no chime and I've programmed my jag key myself. I do believe however, if theres no chime after turning ignition to position 2 4 times in 6 seconds to programme central locking that means that parts disabled using the keys.
gaz6076
I haven't programmed a key the old fashioned way myself for a while now but am sure it only chimes after you press and hold the button on the key you're programming
SierraYankee99
Trust me mate, I've done them loads of times. After turning the ignition off for the 4th time it should chime then it chimes again when you press a button.
gaz6076
Kl kl. Well if its not chiming for him then looks like its a trip to the dealers or sum1 with diagnostic equipment ;)
adrian109
Hi Guys,

Just to update you - I changed the key fob for one with the exact same part code as I one I already had and working. This time the PATS programming stuck! I programmed it using the normal instructions and its starting the car all the time now. My problem must have been because the fob I tried first with a different part code was not compatible.

Thanks for all your advice has saved me a trip to the dealer which is always good!! :-)
drewtiss
[quote name='adrian109' post='13211' date='Feb 25 2009, 09:14 AM'][u]
I have just bought a second hand fob from ebay it doesn't have a new key blank as yet, its just the remote fob. I have sucessfully programmed the fob so that it can open and lock the doors remotely from the fob.

The problem I am having is I can't get the fob to start the engine with the existing key shaft from another key that is already paired.

I have followed the instructions of using two existing paired keys and putting them in one by one switching from 0 to II on the ignition to get me into the pats programming mode. As I am only holding the remote key fobs onto the key shaft it allows me to quickly swap the paired key fob over with the one I bought off ebay. I turn this from position 0 to II and remove the key.

Then I wait a while and try the new fob, it starts the engine, but it takes a few seconds longer than the working key would normally take to start the engine, but it does start the engine eventually.

The problem I am facing is that the key from eBay will only start the engine ONCE after I have run the pats programming procedure. After that it fails to start the engine anymore.

I then read about erasing all other keys apart from the original [url="http://www.mbpartswarehouse.com/mercedes_190eparts.html"]mercedes benz parts[/url] paired two, so I tried that hoping that the car already had known keys to it and it wasn't allowing the new key to be paired.

I ran the procedure in the book for erasing the other keys, then I re-ran the pats programming to pair the ebay key but I'm still having the same issue, the key will only ever start the car ONCE!

Any idea what I might be doing wrong or what could be the problem?

Your help would be very welcomed.

Thanks. (sorry for the long post![/u][/quote]

I have this problem long time ago. I even ask my uncle about his programming skills but none of them helped me.


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