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Carl0s
First of all, sorry for opening another thread nearly on the same issue as the one before. But the forum doesn't allow to edit the thread title.


So, -06 1.6 TDCi knocks, but only when you got over 2700rpm on the engine. it knocked - i changes the oils and it got a lot better, then i washed my engine bay today, and the knocking got back to square one. (oils are driven 400km )

The sound comes in both, acceleration and deceleration (actualy i think it gets worse when your doing engine braking) so i dont think its "diesel knock". And from the inside, it sounds like it coming from the lright side of the engine.

So any ideas? tappers? Cam chain tensioner?

how black should the oil be in these? Since mine is allready pich black, when i compare it to my previous tdci mondeo, it had lot clearer oils eaven after 10 000km. but, in the mondeo the EGR was disabled...
stef123
Diesel engine lol does tend to go black quite quickly so I wouldn't worry about that to be fair.

The knocking sound could be a main or big end bearing.

Carl0s
[quote name='stef123' timestamp='1357863901' post='225722']
Diesel engine lol does tend to go black quite quickly so I wouldn't worry about that to be fair.

The knocking sound could be a main or big end bearing.
[/quote]

I would think that if it is main bearinf, or big end bearing, it should make atleast some knocking pre 2700rpm?

Does these things have the same kind crankshaft accessory pulley as in 2.0 TDCi mondeo? My mondeo had the crank pulley fail (the outter ring spun complitely freely compared to the center part http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4tkAgTDQIU ) The sound is bit similar what the mondeo made on idle whit bad pulley, but unlike mondeo, this is quiet on idle, and noisy on revs...

So, last night i couldn't cach sleep (too many red bulls during the day) and i started to wonder if it could be something that the accessiry belt has been oily, and caused it to slip, making the crank pulley less noisy. Now i washed everything whit industrial grade solvent, the belt got some more grip and started to make noises...

But, still open for ideas :)
stef123
Being a diesel though which male alot of engine noise it could be hard to detect the noise.

Those damper pulleys can become noisey, but if its bad enough to knock then I think you would see it when running.
Carl0s
Hobla!

http://www.tdocuk.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=5329

Exacly the same! Any ideas ?
Carl0s
Update:

Just tested on idle:

From idle, slowly raise the rpms and it starts to knock at ~3000rpms, release the throtle and it knocks.

From idle, stomp it to bit over 2000rmp, and release throtle... and you get the knock... so it knocks on rapid decelarion and over 3000rpms...

Injectors ?
Carl0s
Progress update:

Acording to the bits of information ive found from the web, the number 1 suspect for the issue is worn injectors. I'l try to do a leakoff test this weekend to confirm it.


If it comes down to that, i've found some reasonably priced injector sets from ebay, and i think i just go for those. Any tips for the injector change? I guess i need to get seal kit from the dealer, but does these require any injector coding?

Ive read around the web, and some places say that they need to be recoded like delphi, some says that you only need to reset the PCM, and some say just plug'em in, the PCM will learn the new injectors quite quick.
stef123
As far as I know all tdci injectors need to be coded
Carl0s
[quote name='stef123' timestamp='1357993422' post='225997']
As far as I know all tdci injectors need to be coded
[/quote]

thats the cach, example this: http://www.autodiagnos.com/sites/default/files/ford_injector_programming_tdci_ad.pdf clearly states that the injectors need to be coded. but then again, by googling "1.6 tdci injector coding" and "1.6 hdi injector coding" you find the "flame wars" between "code'em!", "reset'em!" and "just smack'em in and ride like you stole it!"

You see why im getting confused? =)
TDCiST
ah, you've quoted TDOCUK!

Yeah your injectors will need coding to make sure the ECU knows how much to inject and how long to etc etc AS each injector is different... not masiively but when running on such fine tolerances as these do....

I'll see if i can find the article i read on injector tolerances, and why they need coding... It made for interesting reading!
Carl0s
Well well, after pocking hang-overed brother whit a stick (he's manager on automotive shop that i use as a garage) i got to the garage planing on doing the leak-off test.

I washed the enginebay on wednesday, and havent realy looked under the bonnet after that. Well, gotted the car in, popped the hood and took an eye on the injectors... No need for leak off test. Injectors 1 & 3 were wet from the root, and injectors 2 & 4 were dry ( pics: [url="http://imgur.com/a/32CIS"]http://imgur.com/a/32CIS[/url] - the numbering starts from the cam belt side).

So, skipped the leak-off test and were planning to check the turbos oil-pipe mesh... but in order to get our hands on it, it seems like you need to take the turbo and exhaust manifold of. But, the on the upper end of the feeder pipe, all looked good. There was oil, and it looked pretty much same as on the dipstick. Also checked the mesh on the vacuum pump, and it was clean.

So, i guess next step is to get the seal kit from the dealer, and mondeospares sayd theyll be in contact if they can get theyr hands on for a propper set of 1.6tdci injectors.

That leaves me for coding? What would be the ideal way? buy my own ForDiag, FSuper, FO-COM or change the injectors, hope it starts and drive it to dealer?


EDIT: Forgot, as you can see, someone has allready done something to the injectors since they are all numbered... Would be nice to know what it might been. The car has full Ford service record, but there is no mention on the book that theyve mendled whit the injectors (but there is notes like "wheel bearings changed etc etc)

EDIT2:

Or what do you think? Should i just buy the seal kit, and clean the injectors, witch saves me from recoding them (i got industrial ultrasonic cleaner at work that i could use to clean em) or buy new used set?
Carl0s
Allright, update:

Friend loaned me a commonral leakoff test kit, so im planning to do a leakoff test today, in order to determine if i should just change the seals, or change the injectors while im at it.

Anyone has any info what the leakoff should be, in example 300sec intervall? I found leakoff test for mondeo (30sec idle, 30sec 2,5k rpm, 30sec idle, etc etc) that should give 25ml whit propper injectors... Anything like that for focus ?
Carl0s
Did the leakoff test.

Cylinders counted from the timing case, 120sec period

1: 37.5ml
2: 34ml
3: 65ml
4: 37.5ml


I guess there's my problem... :)
stef123
Safe to say you found your answer then...

Are you any further forward with injector coding?
Carl0s
[quote name='stef123' timestamp='1358356158' post='227413']
Safe to say you found your answer then...

Are you any further forward with injector coding?
[/quote]

I contacted Tomas from ForDiag abaut the coding. Atm the software does not support bosch injector coding, but he has all the required information for doing it. He promised to check how much labour is needed, and then he calls back.

The last resort is, if it does not eaven start, to tow it acros the street from my garage to Ford for recoding... cant be more then 1h labour... cant...
Carl0s
Update:

Got the "new" injectors http://imgur.com/a/KlKiG

Now i just need to wedge some spare time to change them... Any pro-tips? anything special i should know, or is it just pretty straight forward, unbolt old ones, clean, clean, clean your seats, gently whit some rag. reclean, add new seals and install new injectors. Fix to 5Nm + 45deg. Change the fuel filter, fill it whit diesel cleaner and just crank it up untill it fires?


Oh yeah, whats the easyest way to depreasurize the injection system? Or does it depreasurize it automaticly after you shut it down?
Carl0s
Hey, can anyone tell me for sure, can i use F-Super USB adapter, and Formidable to code the new injectors for the 1.6 TDCi Focus? All info that i can find is for mondeo, but nothing for focus... :/
stef123
[quote name='Carl0s' timestamp='1358627807' post='228477']

Oh yeah, whats the easyest way to depreasurize the injection system? Or does it depreasurize it automaticly after you shut it down?
[/quote]

All i can say is be very careful when working on a common rail, the pressures are ridiculously high.

i would be tempted to get the car in position for where you are working on it and leave it over night and start in the morning
Carl0s
Well, got the injectors changed. used my BT-OBD to monitor the Commonrail preasure after shutdown, and it went nearly imediatly to ~4bars, so i just released the rest of it from the injector pipes.

The injectors came out nicely when you losened the fixing bolts, and gave it a nice litle spin from the starter.

There was also nice suprise, injector holes 1 and 3 were full of "sealant glue"... *golf clap*

but anyhow, changed the injectors, and the problem stayd the same. Still knocking after 3k rpm... Tho, now it starts up way better, and pulls way better. Also, i think the commonrail preasures have gone up from ~600bar to over 1000bar...

Can anyone tell me for sure, does these injectors require coding?!

So far ive heard:

-All TDCi injectors after -03 need to be coded. Otherwise the car gives out engine error light, goes to limp and wount rev over 3k

-No need to code, just PCM reset

-No need for coding or reset, ecu will learn the new injectors by its own.


Well, gues what... i only changed the injectors, and nope, i got no limp, no engine light, everything works nicely apart the knock... what got me thinking, if these indeed require coding, and someone has previously done somehting to the injectors whitout coding, could that be the issue. Also, could it be that it requires coding, but doesent show it anyway?

And last, tryed to eyeball the injectors, and i could not find any "code" from them that would mach the sayd 8 digit description... :/


Like here you can see the 8 digid code: http://www.tdocuk.com/download/file.php?id=2634&mode=view

But mine, new and the old ones has 9 digid code instead... ?
stef123
I think if they require to be coded then it would run like a bag of spanners right now?

good job though mate :)
Carl0s
[quote name='stef123' timestamp='1358803689' post='229119']
I think if they require to be coded then it would run like a bag of spanners right now?

good job though mate :)
[/quote]

well, it does quite run like a bag of spanners, but only after 3k ;)
Carl0s
Took some videos, first one idling hood up, second one is from the inside (earphones recomended), you can clearly hear the knock after 3000rpm

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZw8daxjop0&feature=youtu.be[/media]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpCeGAJ9WQI&feature=youtu.be[/media]

Any ideas ?
Carl0s
[b]CASE CLOSED![/b]

Tooked the valve cover off today, and founded out that 2 cam followers had slipped away from the cam / valve and were klocking around. So, atleast 2 busted followers, totaled cam shaft and possibly few bended valves... Il guess ill just try to find whole cylinder head as used part.

"Funny story" the guy from who i bough my injectors, had exacly same on his parrents HDi... Were knocking (tho, that one knocked all the time), and when he took the valve cover off, 2 followers had slipped away, and few bended valves.

He took the head to machinery for valve change, and when he got it back, he noticed that _all_ of the followers had loose bearings... New ones are 40€ each, so he just bought whole engine from parted car...
stef123
Ouch! That's really not good! Can you post up any pics of the damage?
Carl0s
http://imgur.com/a/NBDZx

few pics taken from the inspection cover. The follower on the second picture is bit hard to spot, but you can see it lying horizontaly right behind the firs nose of the cam...

hmm... From ford, followers 40€ each, so that would be 640€ euros only for the followers, + cams + valve work... Replacement engines: 1800€ euros, still some polls out for few heads, but im starting to feel that this knock just got realy expensive... :(

But for the bright side, im quite suprised how nicely it drives whit only 14 valves ;)
stef123
[quote name='Carl0s' timestamp='1358972157' post='229674']
[url="http://imgur.com/a/NBDZx"]http://imgur.com/a/NBDZx[/url]

few pics taken from the inspection cover. The follower on the second picture is bit hard to spot, but you can see it lying horizontaly right behind the firs nose of the cam...

hmm... From ford, followers 40€ each, so that would be 640€ euros only for the followers, + cams + valve work... Replacement engines: 1800€ euros, still some polls out for few heads, but im starting to feel that this knock just got realy expensive... :(

But for the bright side, im quite suprised how nicely it drives whit only 14 valves ;)
[/quote]

thats mad!

is a second hand head an option?
Carl0s
[quote name='stef123' timestamp='1358977604' post='229745']
thats mad!

is a second hand head an option?
[/quote]

Yeah, after i heard the cost for the can followers, i decided that i go for second hand parts... The replacement engine was also secondhand, and was driven 180k km, and the guy selling the second hand head (90k km on it) havent awnsered yet,,, ;(

There is few reasonable priced heads on ebay, but they are not realy jumping for happines about mailing parts to finland...


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