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mkelbie
Long shot but I have 4 hours wait for AA so anyone online who can offer suggestions it would be great.

Came to start my car to go for lunch, it started moved about 3 feet in reverse and it cut out and won't start again.

2007 Focus 1.8 TDCI
89K

Just had a full service 3 days ago and got a full tank of shell diesel.

It has been struggling in the morning, never fires up 1st time but 2nd time after coil goes back out it fires up, splutters a bit then is fine. I do a 60mph journey to work and 60 back no problems.

This morning fired up 1st time got here fine and now it won't start :(

It's just had a service, battery seems fine as it turns but just won't start. All electrically work and I have thought the glow plugs may be on the way out but it was running fine this morning and its 2 degrees here and engine was still fairly warm when I came to start it.

I am just worried something bad has happened, so if anyone can rule out major problems I will be put at ease and hopefully it's something simple and more importantly cheap.

Thanks
salsheikh
i wish i could help you but i'm a novice with these cars still
hopefully someone will come along soon

good luck
jeebowhite
Sounds like battery as a potential risk, or diesel gone waxy and clogging the filter to be honest.

When you put headlights on and start the car, do they flicker, and the dash flickers and ticks like mad?

If so, it sounds like the battery has become winters victim...
mkelbie
AA man has been and its my injector pump :-/

A pin has snapped and no where local that can do it. I'm snookered here now
jeebowhite
aaah, thats not too good...

Does your recovery package not get you to a garage of your choice?
salsheikh
bugger mate, i hope its not too expensive to sort out.
mkelbie
No only within 15miles. I am still here :-/

Recovery is sorted now and should be here within next 30mins but not sure about the repair now.

Says engine system fault on the dash now. It's definitely something to do with fuel pump as no fuel is getting through, I just hope it's cheap to repair.
mkelbie
Anyone got any tips for this? It's outside the garage now and going down with the keys in the morning.

Recovery man suspected airlock and almost started it with a squirt of easy start but didn't want to over do it.

I am worried about the cost of diagnosing the fault before paying to repair it
stef123
in the first instance you said the AA man said it was the pump as some pin had snapped? now you dont seem to sure?

if it is the pump, I presume they are coded to the ecu on this model? but unfortunately diesel pumps (high pressure pump) are not cheap im afraid.

at a dealer, expect to pay around £100 for diagnostics.
mkelbie
AA man took a clip off opening a pipe and asked me to try and start it and said no diesel is coming through and when he connected his computer he said the fuel pressure or something is 18 and it should be a lot more than that. His diagnosis was the pump wasn't working and a pin had snapped that powers it. Something like the gear turns and the pin turns the pump passing the fuel through and this was no longer working.


RAC man arrives and after few basic tests he investigates the fuel related issues. He tried a new sensor as he believed a sensor was at fault, this time the ecu was giving an engine fault but when he connected his computer everything was fine including the pressure. He hit the fuel rail a few times with a hammer and removed the battery lead to try clear the ecu fault then said it needs to be took to a garage.

3rd party recovery arrives to take me to the garage, he never tried anything but whilst lifting my car and during the journey he asked what the fault was. I explained had a full service 3days ago, did long trip and filled up last nyt and got to work after 60miles this morning no problem, started it at lunch and got a few yards in reverse and it cut out and hasn't started since. He believes its air locked and said it seems odd it's just died. When we got to the garage he asked could he try start it and with a bit of easy start the engine almost started but the battery was drained. He tried again with a booster connected to the battery but it was just turning and wouldn't fire.

It's left there now until I go back in the morning to find out the damage which I hope isn't mega :-/
stef123
[quote name='mkelbie' timestamp='1358887719' post='229350']
AA man took a clip off opening a pipe and asked me to try and start it and said no diesel is coming through and when he connected his computer he said the fuel pressure or something is 18 and it should be a lot more than that. His diagnosis was the pump wasn't working and a pin had snapped that powers it. Something like the gear turns and the pin turns the pump passing the fuel through and this was no longer working.


RAC man arrives and after few basic tests he investigates the fuel related issues. He tried a new sensor as he believed a sensor was at fault, this time the ecu was giving an engine fault but when he connected his computer everything was fine including the pressure. He hit the fuel rail a few times with a hammer and removed the battery lead to try clear the ecu fault then said it needs to be took to a garage.

3rd party recovery arrives to take me to the garage, he never tried anything but whilst lifting my car and during the journey he asked what the fault was. I explained had a full service 3days ago, did long trip and filled up last nyt and got to work after 60miles this morning no problem, started it at lunch and got a few yards in reverse and it cut out and hasn't started since. He believes its air locked and said it seems odd it's just died. When we got to the garage he asked could he try start it and with a bit of easy start the engine almost started but the battery was drained. He tried again with a booster connected to the battery but it was just turning and wouldn't fire.

It's left there now until I go back in the morning to find out the damage which I hope isn't mega :-/
[/quote]

was the fuel filter changed? its a possibility for an air leak if its been disturbed but to be honest im not sure this is your problem...

im not too familiar with the tdci pumps but if there is a pin which locates the drive pulley onto the shaft then i guess this is a possibility. if its snapped then the pulley will just spin without driving the pump
mkelbie
Yes had all filters changed with the service.

What do you think it is then? It's just weird how it was perfect, got to work started then just died
stef123
[quote name='mkelbie' timestamp='1358888216' post='229357']
Yes had all filters changed with the service.

What do you think it is then? It's just weird how it was perfect, got to work started then just died
[/quote]

I would have the fuel filter removed, and the filter and housing inspected. the rubber seal should have been replaced with the filter. then the system will need to be primed with fuel to get it started.
you will want the battery charged up to do this though as it can take a while lol

from what you have said its fuel starvation or lack of fuel pressure?
mkelbie
So do you think it's related to this service and the filter then as my dad has said that from the start but hasn't seen it yet
stef123
[quote name='mkelbie' timestamp='1358888887' post='229366']
So do you think it's related to this service and the filter then as my dad has said that from the start but hasn't seen it yet
[/quote]

it certainly seems plausible to me as the fuel system has been disturbed.

have the starting issues only started after the service?
mkelbie
I hope so too, it just seems to much of a coincidence.

It's never been like this before, never had any problems with it really. I have had a couple of cold start problems. 1st time it starts it cuts out and then starts second time but sounds a bit lumpy cause of the cold but warms up after a few revs and its fine. I assumed that was because it needed a service but told it might be a faulty heater plug or 2
mkelbie
Don't think the heater plugs would cause it to cut out when engine was relatively warm and it didn't sound cold or anything when I got in it this afternoon but just cut out without warning
stef123
[quote name='mkelbie' timestamp='1358889645' post='229376']
I hope so too, it just seems to much of a coincidence.

It's never been like this before, never had any problems with it really. I have had a couple of cold start problems. 1st time it starts it cuts out and then starts second time but sounds a bit lumpy cause of the cold but warms up after a few revs and its fine. I assumed that was because it needed a service but told it might be a faulty heater plug or 2
[/quote]

common rail engines are a bit better for cold starting without needing glow plugs but they do still need them for when its very cold outside. so yes you might find that a set of new glow plugs will sort this issue out.

if its all started since the service, the obvious parts to inspect are those disturbed since the work was carried out

was it serviced with genuine or aftermarket parts?
mkelbie
I hope it is, I ill update thread tomorrow once I know. I just really hope it's cheap.

I will stick new plugs in it tomorrow too just to make the starting easy with this cold weather.

That AA man was convincing though drawing a little diagram of this gear for the pump and how the pin was snapped. Lets hope he's wrong :)
mkelbie
As for the parts, I would hope genuine since he charged 170+VAT. It's a Bosch garage so should be genuine but I will ask
mkelbie
Came back to the garage, he wants to charge me 60 an hour to diagnose it or just change the pump which I waiting for a price for now.
mkelbie
A grand to fix it :-/ new pump for 490 and labour plus change cambelt whilst the cover is off!

This isn't right this, I'm sure there is air in the system from the service. Considering this garage said my coolant was weak, air con wasn't cool and brake fluid needed changing. All of which was done a 2 months ago and verified back at that garage it seems a dodgy garage here
stef123
[quote name='mkelbie' timestamp='1358933409' post='229496']
A grand to fix it :-/ new pump for £490 and labour plus change cambelt whilst the cover is off!

This isn't right this, I'm sure there is air in the system from the service. Considering this garage said my coolant was weak, air con wasn't cool and brake fluid needed changing. All of which was done a 2 months ago and verified back at that garage it seems a dodgy garage here
[/quote]

I would get it recovered to another garage for another opinion personally.
mkelbie
How weird is this, my dad turned up said I will have it running in 5minutes. Towed my brother 200yards and it starts on its own now.

Bit strange this after been asked 1000 for cambelt and pump. I have just took it on motorway and put injector cleaner in.

Went back to garage and was told it shouldn't start and he was saying maybe the AA or RAC let air in the system when testing it but my point is they was only testing it cause it wouldn't start in the 1st place.

I am at kwik fit now and I trust these guys, they are going to change my anti freeze for peace of mind and check the filters.

I am really unsure what to do now, had today off work but need to commute to Wales again tomorrow but I'm worried my car is faulty
jeebowhite
You have some sort of breakdown package which is the key factor at this time. The odd start scenario is certainly a reason to worry, but I would say just drive it, if it fails, it cant be helped, maybe get it recovered to another garage, or Ford, and see what they say. £1000 seems FAR too steep, even by dealers standards!
mkelbie
Yes but I need to upgrade it so I am covered nationwide.

It's running so that's a good sign, fords are booked until next week but said use it if these is no faults.

Big test is will it start in the morning.

It's shocking how someone was going to take 1000 off me and my dad who isn't even a mechanic started my car instantly.
mkelbie
I did take out an extended warranty with warranty wise recently but cancelled it as I didn't feel they would honour any claims.

I am about to ring up and upgrade my AA so they will bring me home and not local if something happens again. Given that my car appears to be fine now and it's running if I upgrade to the repair cover (500 max) would they honour any repairs if something happens again?
Pete80
My father had a similar problem, his was an air lock in the fuel system, he was told this was probably caused by a diesel pump that hasnt been maintained properly, he has since changed to another petrol station and had no other problems since (touch wood)
mkelbie
[quote name='Pete80' timestamp='1358962685' post='229613']
My father had a similar problem, his was an air lock in the fuel system, he was told this was probably caused by a diesel pump that hasnt been maintained properly, he has since changed to another petrol station and had no other problems since (touch wood)
[/quote]

It was actually shell where I filled up. I hope the problem has now gone away, I guess i will know in the morning when I start my car after its been stood over night.

I think this AA cover will help me out, £150 and I get everything including a 3day hire car and £500 towards repairs. Hopefully I never use it but it would of cost me £150+ just to get my car recovered yesterday so its something I am willing to pay, not paying some company like warranty wise £500 for a similar cover.
salsheikh
use quidco or topcash as if you get your cover thru them you get some cash back and i got £45 from RAC. i dont renew, just start a new account everytime.
mkelbie
I'm soo annoyed. My car worked last night, started at half 6 this morning and got me to Wales and just did the exact same thing as Tuesday.

Pulled out of the bay and it cut out and won't start again :@ pump can't be gone as its been working so the AA man was wrong but what else could it be
jeebowhite
You waiting for the recovery truck now?

Its hard to help without knowing error codes... Can you do the dashboard trick now and see what codes come back?
dogdays1
I sugest it either had a blocked fuel filter or was not primed properly when they changed the filter. You can check the pump pressure using the obd port when the car is running.

P.S heavy handed fitters can strip the thread on the bowl causing an air leak.
mkelbie
There is no dash warnings. I am not stuck thank god, squirt if easy start and it fired right up and made the 60 mile journey home.

Been to the garage they have refitted the filter with a new seal. Hopefully this does it now, it's running again.
dogdays1
Sounds to me that you will be OK now. The TDCI 1800 gives no warning on the dashboard for low fuel pressure, it just will not start, then try again later and off she goes as if nothings wrong.If you have a lap top you can buy a simple OBD cable like the ELM on ebay. You can then check these things out for yourself.

P.S Did the AA check the fuel pressure when he came out?
mkelbie
I hope it is OK now, I have stopped and started a few times now and its had 30-60 mins rest before I tried it again. But it did this yesterday and started this morning in freezing temperatures after being stood over night and got me to wales.

I won't get the cable until next week and would have to borrow a laptop but I think I may order 1 at weekend if it still has issues.

Yes he checked it and said it was 18 but the RAC man never said anything about it. The AA man said it was the pump and a pin had snapped so I was going no where and he wasn't even pointing to the pump, he was pointing to the spider shaped rail that files the injectors, point is if it was gone then how have I done 200+ miles since.

I just wish it was sorted as its causing issues with work and I am debating on just selling it now.
mkelbie
Can you link me to a good cable and do I need software?

Will they work on OSX or is it Windows only
dogdays1
I use the ELM 327 Interface which I bought on ebay. You will need a program for the computer which has to be I think a windows machine. The program I use is Easyobd. You down load for free the simple version ( V2) to make sure it works. Once you prove it can connect OK to your car you pay a small license fee and upgrade on line( V3) to increase functionality. It works fine on my laptop and I have connected to various cars.
It tells you such things as the temperature of the coolant, the Inlet boost air pressure and temperature, fuel flow and pressure, alternator output and of course the sensor performance and any stored engine fault codes. It can read a heck of a lot more but the Ford Diesel is quite a simple car really. You can then go online and see what the warning code relates to ( there is a list of Ford codes). Frankly you need this sort of device to diagnose faults on modern cars as its all electronic these days. All modern cars have obd sockets on them, the Fords is underneath the steering wheel to the right. You cannot miss it.

Good luck and keep us all posted
mkelbie
I am thinking one of those devices may become useful but my machine has been on computer 3 times and hasn't shown a single fault code.

I went out before to try start it and it started, I really don't want to have to pay a lot for repairs or sell my car. I do too many miles to maintain a new car so really need to get another 2 years out of my focus

Andy H Dibley
Someone more clued up on modern Focus dervs - Do they have a pump in the tank or just one in the bay?

Just wondering if you may have an intermittent fault with it being supplied to the bay and the engine driven pump?
mkelbie
Pretty sure there isn't electric pump in the tank.

The engine driven pump was what I was told was to blame by AA but he was pointing to the distributor pipes. I can't see it being the pump as if the gear was broke then it wouldn't work at all.

I had the seal done again and the filter primed and worked last night.

Started again this morning in -1 1st time and got me to Wales.

I don't know what to do
dogdays1
No its a mechanical pump on the 1800 situated left front on the engine. The other thing worth thinking about is the fuel pressure sensor that gives the signal to the ECU. Thats why I say you need to connect up when running to check the pressure it should be around 1600 bar. Much less and she wont start. I wonder what sort of guy your AA man was!!!
mkelbie
I will see if it starts now, going to go out to it and test.

Do you think it could be a sensor then as opposed to the actually mechanics of the pump? Sensor sounds cheaper.

dogdays1
A sensor will certainly be cheaper but you need to find the fault before throwing money about. How many miles has this car done? Anyway, before you get involved with rocket science lets see if a filter air leak or air-locking has been the problem. If all else fails you could have a talk with your Ford service agent if you still have problems, though they charge £80 to do a test.
mkelbie
It's done 89,000. I'm 2nd owner and I got it 12months/30K+ ago.

It just got me to McDonald's for lunch so it didn't mind starting today. Maybe it was leaking air and now it's sealed

Next time it does it I'm going fords and will gladly pay the £80 if they tell me the fault

dogdays1
The reason I know about this fault is that it happened to me . My Focus would not start one morning so I got the AA out. The car started for him but he did his diagnostic and suggested that it was either the EGR jammed or fuel issues.. So I took it to Ford. They found a blocked fuel filter and also the air was not very good either, they also cleaned the EGR. All this 3 months after a service. Since then starting has never been a problem.Though the EGR did stick once on the Motorway.
mkelbie
Mine is still starting now after a new seal on the fuel filter. Hopefully it continues but any issues again I am going to have to pay ford prices to find the fault
jeebowhite
fuel filter seal sounds about right, with any fortune it should stay well, but do keep us in the know, it will be good to know thats the issue for definate as we can add it to a general fix list :P
Stoney871
It is always recommended to change the fuel filter seal at the same time as the filter, over time the seal loses flexibility and when undone and retightened it doesn't always seat properly.
Even a tiny bit of air into the filter housing will cause fuelling problems and starting problems.
mkelbie

Thought I would update this thread and see if anyone thinks there's a connection. Car is having problems again :(

 

 

I had the fault with it not starting and the fix seemed to be the fuel filter seal but now I have the same engine warning but experiencing a different issue.

 

A month ago I had a similar problem and I called the AA out who said no fault code was being given so they took it into Halfords because I have the repair cover. They told me a pipe was split and they replaced that, AA paid the warranty, I paid the £35 excess and since then I haven't had power loss issues or anything like that until today.

 

Upon leaving work today my car shuddered slightly and the engine light came on and loss of power, no smoke or anything pouring out the back but it just felt lagged, its shuddered again and light went off power resorted. I got about 5 miles and it did the same thing again only this time it stayed on and I had loss of power so I stopped on the hard shoulder. The AA came out and couldn't find any faults nor was the ecu giving a fault code so they have recovered me to the Halfords again.

 

I am just a bit worried now whats happened, the car starts 1st time and doesn't throw out any smoke (it does 1st start in the morning) but I don't understand why it works for a minute then the fault comes and I have a loss of power. I was recovered to the garage drove round the Halfords perfect then when I parked the car the warning came back so there is definitely a fault, I just hope its not expensive.

 

If anyone has ideas I would be grateful because Halfords will charge me a fortune in diagnostics fees if they cant find the fault.

 

Car has done 97,266 miles now and isn't due a service, cam belt is due around 120K/10years but I will get then done relatively soon from now if I can fix this power issue.

 

Any help would be great!! I suspect turbo or EGR valve like suggested with my previous fault, air lock is out the question as it starts of the key.

 

Thanks



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