January 29, 2013, 7:18 am
A month or so ago the engine warning light came on...bugger the dmf must really falling apart now as it's been rattling on and off for about a year.
Scoured the forums and found a sound bit of advice...
[i]These TDCi engines have a number of insidious problems which are all but guaranteed to rear their ugly heads at one stage or another.
Cam and crank sensors (more so cam sensor)
Dual Mass Flywheel
So I thought I better make sure so off it went to Fords for a diagnostic...£54 got me the P2238 warning code and a description of the possible faults as
[i]Damaged or disconnected vacuum hose[/i]
[i]Check for air leaks at the turbo charger[/i]
[i]Vanes on the Turbo charger sticking closed[/i]
[i]Turbo charger defective[/i]
I was advised to give it a good thrash and if the EWL comes back on it'll need a new turbo, I'd also require two new rear suspension arms following a courtesy check at a cost of three hundred odd quid which was complete BS.
Cheap stuff first, checked hoses and change the fuel filter and get some Wynns fuel treatment as well as EGR/Turbo cleaner (same stuff btw). 30 miles later the EWL comes back on, no smoke pouring out the back or noticeable loss of power.
I purchase a diagnostic reader and I have the same error code (P2238), internet search of error code produced this albeit for trucks/vans.
[i]I found this using google.... , may not be totally relevant as its for trucks so use at your own risk
The code 2263 can be cause by the following,
Mechanically stuck variable turbo
Check the air filter to be sure it is not restricted, even if the filter minder shows that it's OK. Replace the filter if needed.[/i]
Odd...thought I'd replace the air filter even though I thought it was quite clean...I did however notice this time that one of the vacuum hoses attached to the air box had a bit of a kink in it, pulled it off gave it blow and reseated it properly so it wasn't kinking.
Hundreds of miles later and no EWL light, thank goodness. Check your hoses properly and change filters regularly, obvious but how many poor saps have been told they needed a new turbo like I was. Hope this is helpful.
January 29, 2013, 9:07 am
This is the problem with "technicians" not mechanics, just going by a fault code spat out by the car.
Proper mechanics seem few and far between nowadays.
January 29, 2013, 9:17 am
[quote name='alexp999' timestamp='1359472034' post='231432']
This is the problem with "technicians" not mechanics, just going by a fault code spat out by the car.
Proper mechanics seem few and far between nowadays.
I have to agree!!
I have a great little mechanic friend that takes the codes and then checks all the little bits first!
January 29, 2013, 9:50 am
Great headsup antdad.I have a small rubber hose going into the airfilter top housing which was not connected because the connector was snapped so I just glued it on.Don't even know what its for.Its made no difference to the running of the car...I too have bought a scanner like you so hopefully save a fortune on diagnostics done by garages etc.
Reluctant Ford owner
February 1, 2013, 6:41 am
When you go into a dealer and the mechanics are called "technicians" you know you are in trouble. A lot of them are just lap top monkeys who don't know their arse from their elbow when it comes to cars. If the computer says "No" they haven't got a clue.
February 1, 2013, 6:59 am
very useful thanks OP
February 1, 2013, 1:49 pm
Interesting comments....... I happen to be a " Technician " and have been for 27 years now...... The companies I have worked for in my career have spent thousands on my training and keeping me up to date with all modern systems....
Anyone can use a code reader...... Anyone can then look up the code on Google so on that most of you should be able to fix your own cars..... Which ultimately will put us " Technicians " on the unemployment list.
I can honestly say in the last few years the amount of people who turn up at our dealership stating they know what is wrong with there car and they know what bit needs to be fitted and insist that we should only fit that bit as no diagnostics are required makes me laugh...... So far not one has been right.
I've also had conversations with customers where they state " my diagnostic scan tool has said this " ...... Ok how much was your scan tool???? A few quid or maybe you have got software on a laptop for a few hundred...... Well why do the dealers pay on average 20k plus for there diagnostic systems and then have to pay for subscribed updates on a weekly basis.
Personally I own a Snap on Solus Ultra..... Cost me just over £2500 with updates at £500 when ever snap on decide to update them.....
So when I see comments that basically put all Technicians in to bracket of being brainless morons who don't know there arse from there elbow it tends to bug me...... Most polite way I will describe it..... And I'm sure I'm not the only Technician who posts on this forum and would feel the same way as I do.
February 1, 2013, 2:00 pm
Welcome to the forum lottysvdub
February 1, 2013, 2:02 pm
I wouldn't ever say technicians are brainless morons. My point is simply that I feel the dealers rely far too heavily on technology and diagnostic systems these days and not enough on someone who is more mechanically trained.
February 1, 2013, 2:27 pm
At the end of the day the diagnostic tool is just what it says...... It's a tool..... If you don't know how to use it then maybe the said technicians require more training. With modern cars with multiplex electronics with digital signals etc etc you need a system that can work quickly enough to capture all the live data necessary.
I could agree more with the OP comments regarding the missed vacuum pipe and this to be honest is a lot more common than people realise. But if you have been unfortunate enough to have been treated like this in a dealer its unfortunate.
But being a motor trade technician in this day and age isn't as simple as it sounds... Maybe people should be looking for dealers who have accredited ATA technicians who are licensed.
But saying that most franchised dealers have to work to ATA standards or equivalent...
Sorry if my 1st post seemed like a rant...... Actually it was but only because people tend to look down there noses at people in the trade..... Like anyone in the trade is a criminal.
Reluctant Ford owner
February 7, 2013, 6:49 am
[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]lottysvdub, [/font]I'm not saying everyone in in the trade is a crook or a moron, it's just hard to find people you can trust who are any good. I have yet to have a satisfactory experience whenever I have had to take any of my cars to a main dealer and it's not Fords I'm talking about. You pay a lot of money and things never seem to get resolved. Part of the problem is you never speak to the person who works on the car, you get it third hand from a dopey receptionist who doesn't have a clue. So straight away it feels like you are being fobbed off. The other part of the problem is that cars have become ever more complex and difficult to work on. Plus you never get as much time to look at a car as you would really need, so I do feel sorry for the mechanics, it is a high pressure job.
As someone said above, I think there is too much reliance on self diagnostics, which tend to overlook simple mechanical problems.You have been in the business long enough that you have experience of pre self diagnostic days, which I imagine sets you apart from most of the people working in main dealer garages these days.
February 7, 2013, 9:58 am
I think some of the problem is that main agents of all makes tend to spend most of their time looking after newer vehicles and don't get to see a lot of the common faults that certain models are prone to. Also of course at the very high labour rates charged it's uneconomical to spend a long time investigating a minor fault
February 7, 2013, 5:42 pm
Bit of a harsh statement about Tech's.
[i][color=#282828][font=sans-serif]"This is the problem with "technicians" not mechanics, just going by a fault code spat out by the car.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=sans-serif]Proper mechanics seem few and far between nowadays."[/font][/color][/i]
[i][color=#282828][font=sans-serif]"[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=sans-serif]When you go into a dealer and the mechanics are called "technicians" you know you are in trouble. A lot of them are just [/font][/color][url="http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?&_nkw=lap+top"]lap top[/url][color=#282828][font=sans-serif] monkeys who don't know their arse from their elbow when it comes to cars. If the computer says "No" they haven't got a clue. "[/font][/color][/i]
[font="sans-serif"][color="#282828"]I am a tech for Ford Motor Co, I use diagnostic equipment on automated process controlled equipment, So many systems interact with each other that sometimes using the tool/laptop/human machine interface, is the basis for direction of the fault. My field is building your vehicles.[/color][/font]
[color=#282828][font=sans-serif]Car's are complex these days so many systems, that sometimes it is difficult to locate a fault at first and it maybe [/font][/color]intermittent requiring long monitoring.
I think perhaps you certainly need to retract your statements, the tech's would have been trained to a high standard at FORD dunton CEME. Complete ignorance / offence in your comments.
I assume you had to train for your job, well the guys your referring to would have too?
My company sent me to be trained by the RN and REME, so the level of training I have had is to a very high standard and by HM!
February 8, 2013, 12:54 am
Very well said indeed...... Mayo10uk
Technicians of today's standard are a different breed from the so called old school mechanics.....
Yes I served my apprenticeship working on cars with plugs / points / condensers etc etc..... I now work on hybrid cars and I am 1 of a handful of techs in the psa group in the area who is authorised to do so.
Some people don't realise that today's tech isn't just a mechanic..... They have to be competent in electronics, hydraulics, pneumatics as well as having to deal with A/C systems and upholstery..... Then you get the normal mechanical stuff to.deal with....
Most techs will be assessed in house via online tests as well as having to travel away to.training centres..... Normally at the cost £350 a day with an exam at the end of the course...... If you fail your dealer gets fined and you have to pay to re sit the course and exam.....
February 8, 2013, 2:49 am
The products you all drive are world class built. Quality systems in place are to a highist standard.
I have worked with some of the best engineers.
They have the best innovation and tech that other factors dont.
You should be proud to drive them.
You will not receive a better service from anyone else, yes I concur I've had 'middle man' issues with after sales dealers.
It usually ends in seeing there manager and putting your point across in the correct manner. If you are specific and state what you
want you will get that only.
Lottysvb -- I know the feeling -skill sets have to high and multiskilled- robotics, complete welding systems, mechanical transfer devices, electronics, hv switch gear. The list goes on. If you ever explore a factory maintaining the kit and fault finding on these systems is mind blowing. ;-) I've just updated my CV try and put it on 2 pages... Ekkkk.
Getting back to original poster you. Good work & useful info.
In summary bold statements made on here can offend people in that sector.
It's like everyone's job, you may have a bad experience from someone in retail/banking/insurance for example.
However we all work to earn money to play.
February 8, 2013, 2:53 am
I'm not going to retract what I said. I have already clarified that I feel there is simply too much reliance on technology, too much reliance on the car telling you what is wrong with main dealers.
This thread is not a witch hunt on technicians but the OP itself proves my point. They went to the dealer and paid £54 to be told a fault code, it's description and that it would need a new turbo if the problem persisted, while all along it was just a kinked hose.
Sure technicians are needed with cars getting ever more complicated but as has been proved with peoples experience with main dealers, but sometimes you just need to find what the car and diagnostic has missed.
February 8, 2013, 4:51 am
In all fairness to the OP has had a bad experience and fortunately managed to find the problem. If the dealer concerned had properly trained techs they would have had to follow a set procedure for diagnosing the problem correctly.... Now this normally involves being online direct to the manufacturer where they watch everything you do so if your trying to make a warranty claim they can make sure your diagnosis is correct. If not they reject any claim and will not pay or authorise any repair work.
But it's also very time consuming and expensive to do this.
Chances are the OP was booked in and given an 1/2 hour slot to run a basic global ecu check to see if it was a simple fault or a ghost code...
If it's more involved the customer is normally then given the option to have a couple of hours spent on further investigation..... If the fault is found within the time all is good and well..... Most problems are solved well within that time and if like the OP found a damaged vac pipe its normally repaired at the same time at no extra cost.
Biggest problems I've seen are mechanics not being given the right amount of time to diagnose these problems..... These types of jobs are quite often given out to a tech who already has a job on the go and told to run a quick scan on that...... They quite often report back with the fault codes and ask for more time and then the service advisors simply bill the customer for the diagnosis and tell the customer that there car is knackered and they need to spend XYand Z on it to.sort it.
I've also seen in the past service receptionists and service managers plug cars in to diagnostic systems as the workshops too busy to cater for the booked in waiting diagnostic faults.
So I totally understand why so many of you think what you do of technicians and of dealerships...... But I wouldn't always point the finger at the technician who has looked at the car...... Between him and the customer there are normally 2 other ports of call and information and direction gets misinterpreted and then your problem becomes a personal dig at the technician.
I will also.say there are hundreds of so called technicians who are no good at there job..... I know I've worked with enough in the last 27 years but please don't tar all of us with the same brush...... There are thousands who are very highly skilled.... Who work ridiculous hours for a very poor pay packet and very little gratitude.
February 8, 2013, 5:11 am
That's fair enough and while my initial comment did make a bit too much of a sweeping generalisation, from your comments and the experiences people have had with main dealers, there is clearly a problem in the policies and way problems are handled at main dealers.
The difference I guess is that you never actually speak to the person doing the work on your car unlike an independent. For example when I booked my car in for a service last time at a main dealer I asked the person I handed the keys to, to change the wheels over so the tyres on the front lasted a bit longer. It never happened. It is experiences like that which leaves you the feeling that unless the computer says to do something it won't get done. Although clearly there can also be communication break downs somewhere along the line.
February 8, 2013, 8:51 am
February 8, 2013, 9:05 am
Even the most experienced or highly trained mechanics or individuals can have a bad day, and thats the way you have to see negative encounters. These are all personal views at the end of the day, and god knows - we will all have a gripe with our dealership at one time or another, and it can certainly lead to complete negative feelings about the group (tar them with the same brush).
Cars today are much more different than yesteryear, and what was old school mechanics is now 75% electrical readouts, and diagnostics via computer and 25% taking the car apart and putting it together again. That is inevitable and a sign of progress, but I can understand Alex's point, communication between a PC and the operator is one thing, communication between human's is a bit more difficult to manage
Never the less, its a great deal and a terrible shame that we move towards electronics controlling everything, it can be a perfect answer and can make life easier - take park assist for example - its brilliant if you cant park for toffee.... but if one sensor goes wrong, you could end up having park assist, park you into an expensive bill! I miss the days of a spanner and a bucket of grease being the answer to all my cars prayers, now it costs £60 plus a lot more for the computer to tell me what its doing wrong!
February 8, 2013, 11:06 am
Skynet is here
Deal with it!
February 11, 2013, 9:15 am
lol, I could just imagine my car impersonating terminator
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