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AL85
Hi, I'm reluctant to go to ford with this as it's already cost enough!

I have a 2005 mk2 2.0tdci 136 focus. For the last couple of months i've been having problems getting it started from cold. It's had new glow plugs, new EGR valve, new battery, but not fixed.

From cold, it may or may not fire up first time but then after running for a few seconds at idle it dies. I can get around this by reving the engine for a few minutes (not ideal when it's cold!). Sometimes though the revs will drop whilst I still have my foot on the pedal, then pick up again. After revving for a little while it's usually ok and I can set off (once it did die again when i dipped the clutch to change gear just aftyer i'd set off-not ideal in the mioddle of an industrial estate!). After a few minutes it works fine and there is nothing wrong with the performance. The problem doesn't really happen when the engine is warm either. It's been to my local garage (v good, but not diesel specialists), as well as a diesel specialist place-neither can identify the problem, which makes me thionk it's electrical.

I have had a dig around on the forums and it seems like there are loads of potential reasons e.g. cam sensor etc...I don't really want to pay ford to look at it all day then say its a £25 sensor!

Anyone had the same syptoms??

Cheers
Mike77
I'd be checking all the fuel pipes first, as it could be sucking air into the system.
ippy
i just had similar problems had the fuel filter changed and so far no cutting out no warning lites, but she is a pain to start on cold mornin, im gonna try cleanin the egr and see if that helps with the starting in the mornings, but give the fuel filter a look,
Mike77
As above, meant to include that in my original post...


And Ippy, have you replaced the glow plugs ? Common on the focus, especially when its cold as it is now.
Stoney871
Check the fuel filter seal, they're supposed to be replaced when the fuel filter is swapped on a major service but sometimes it doesn't get done.
An old seal will be less pliant and tend to not re-seat properly resulting in air being sucked into the system and causing fuelling problems.
gforce
Hi AL85 and welcome to the forum.

Can't help you with this mate, but I hope someone else can, as I think I have the exact same problems on my 55 plate 2.0 TDCi 136 as well!

Car is lumpy on cold start and needs a bit of revving to make sure it starts, after a minute of making sure I keep the revs just above idle I can take my foot off the pedal and it'll idle lumpy for a while. But when I take off there are absolutley no issues whatsoever with performance, no warning lights and no error codes. Been like it since I got it Nov 2011, and 40k miles later it's the exact same but has never let me down or led to any more serious issues.

When I first test drove the car it was warm so I didn't notice any start-up issues, same when I went to collect it a couple of days later. Then it sat on my drive for a few days til I sold my Mondeo and got insurance swapped over etc. So was a nervy time when I did start using it and noticed the cold start problem.

I took the car to my mechanic for a peace of mind service, genuine Ford filters all round and new glow plugs, and blanked off EGR as well, but made no difference. He was stumped then and still is. It's goin for it's 5th service in my ownership this weekend (Ford filters every time), and it's still the exact same. I've always feared injectors but I don't have any error codes and would have expected it to have given me more serious grief by this stage if it was. Mechanic had offered to flush the fuel system in the past, so might get that done this time round and see if it makes any difference.

What mileage have you on your car and what sort of MPG do you get, if you don't mind me asking?
AL85
Cheers for the replies guys, i'll check out the fuel pipes and filter as soon as I get the chance...

Those symptoms sound very similar to what i'm getting Gforce...not too encouraging that it's not been solved though! I do get error codes thrown out occasionally but they often get wiped and dissapear-I don't know what they are...the gu sat my local garage did mention it, but I can't remember now what it was, should have paid more attention :).
It's got about 137K on the clock, MPG is pretty good, usually 55+, but then again most of it is longer drives rather than around town...
ippy
i think its now a process of ilimination thats wot i have done (am still doing) first i tried injector cleaner in the fuel, but still got the problem and flashing glow plug lite, so then i had abrain wave :rolleyes: checked back through all the cars history im quite lucky its got full service history and i couldnt see any fuel filter changes <_< so i got it changed and :) :) :) so far so good no cutting out, no limp mode and no flashing lites :) and as for the cold start probs im thinking of changing the glow plugs, should i go for bosch ones or would a cheaper set be ok? :mellow: and also are they hard to fit? :blink: and where are they? :blink: also gonna try some egr cleaner spray before trying to take it off,


p.s i do apologise if i offended any1 in my previous post :)
AL85
Yep same here Ippy, the cleaner didn't help...I don't know if one brand of glow plugs would be better than another? It's a 4 spanner job in Haynes (as is changing the EGR), I only trust myself up to 3 ^_^. I think it also depends on how old they are - if you've got loads of mileage then the glow plugs can become a bit deformed (so i'm told)..this can make them really tricky to get out-if you break them it could be mega-cost to have them drilled out.
I'll have a go at the fuel filter this weekend when there is a bit of spare light!
ippy
well i changed the plugs last nite and it started on the button this mornin (thats after i managed to get in, the doors were frozen) so good time to check and all seemed ok apart from i only replaced three the one behind the dipstick i couldnt get to and i was wet cold hungry and it snowed, :( oh yeah i also dropped my little socket that was just rite for getting them out :angry: and the car has eaten it :o so im gonna have to try that another day :rolleyes: also the problem started again (flashing plug lite 'eml' limp mode :angry: :angry: ) its in the garage now as i type (gettin fed up with this ) i wonder why these things happen when the warrantys run out <_<


([size=3]still thinkin corsa)[/size]
ippy
:( ok just got car back from my garage and he has read these codes p1211, p0251, and p0191, can any1 tell me wot these are please, (sounds expensive) :(
Mike77
Did the garage not tell you what the codes were ??? If not, what were you paying for.

P1211 is injector control pressure sensor.
P0251 is injection pump fuel metering control.
P0191 is fuel rail pressure sensor circuit range/performance.

Hope this helps.
ippy
[i]it just went in for oil serv i asked them if they could check it over for me they read the codes (as a favour £0) i need to know the best course of action now im not sure wot to do first (apart from get rid) :( [/i]
Stoney871
New fuel rail tbh.
ippy
i have spoken to the garage where i got the car and he is going to take it to a bosch garage where he had the fuel filter changed ive given him the codes and he is going to see wot he can do for me as it is ongoing from before warranty run out :) :) appy days hopefully :)
ippy
oh and are fuel rails expensive?
AL85
Ok, so I've now changed the fuel filter...primimg it was a bit of a pain and gave the battery a bit of abuse...Eventually got it to start again though and left it running to helpout the battery a bit. Whilst it was running i noticed that a load of bubbles were going through the outlet pipe every 10 to 15 seconds. Is this normal, or does it indicate i've got air getting in somewhere-which may well be the cause of the original starting problem like mike suggested...not had time to check the fuellines yet though....they also look like a pain to get to :wacko:
AL85
p.s. I only changed the filter itself, not the housing
AL85
ok, i've check the fuel lines as best i can-no leaks that i can see. Less bubbles are coming through now anyway....BUT car STILL doesn't start properly! Just ordered a cam shaft position sensor from euro carparts so will see if that makes a difference. If not will have to concede and to to ford :(
Mike77
This is the problem with 'holes' in fuel lines, I had one on my last fiesta tdci, and it was a pain in the rear. I knew there was one there, but took me over a week to find it. It was even smaller than a pin hole, but enough to draw air into the system overnight and becoming impossible to start in the morning. The only bonus on the fiesta was the fact it had a priming bulb built in with the fuel system, so I could physically hear the slight sucking noise, which then gave me a rough area to check. Was still a total pain. Wish you luck with your problem.
AL85
That sounds exactly like my problem Mike-I had a look at the fuel lines, but I can't get to them all, finding a hole (if it's therer!) is going to be tricky!
Ant81
Hi All

Just been reading through all the comments as I'm currently going through the same problems and thought I'd find some tips here.
I first thought it was electrical as had a new alternator fitted by an uncle on the drive and then replaced the battery - still had the problem and so thought it needed a service and maybe the alternator hadn't been fitted properly. Had that done yesterday, the garage cleared a load of crap out of the fuel filter, have checked the glow plugs (they were all good) and we're still at a loss. Have been referred to a diesel specialist next which who I'll be calling tomorrow but will mention the fuel line and see if they can find anything wrong there.
vibeone
Very slight thread hijack...

I've read in multiple places that in the UK the ford diesels don't need the glow plugs. This always seemed a load of rubbish to me - especially as changing them fixed a cold start problem I had with my old tdci. I'm assuming from the comments in this thread, they are needed, and need to work in the winter!
Stoney871
Definitely needed, if they don't work then the engine throws a hissy fit.
Tanktop3
Hi bit off topic but my focus MK2.5 1.6 TDI was running rough on tick over. just had it serviced so all new parts on it, but running rough you could see the revs going up and down did not sound to well, I fill up at sainsburys and have done for a long time, but last fill up I used BP just normal Diesel, and now no rough tick over revs are steady so now will be using BP stations to fill up from now on.
so it may be the fuel were you fill up if you use the same one all the time. just a thought.


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