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spannerman

new member here. I am rebuilding a 52 plate mondeo estate, 130 tdci engine. it had a bent rod which is now replaced. my problem is the following. ___  set cams as per Haynes manual using 6mm pins fuel pump set using coloured links on chain,  I cannot set crank due to the following  timing pin should be in flywheel at 50 deg, i.e. crank position sensor hole.  manual stated 36 lugs, with one missing for 50 deg position. ????  I have 58 pick up points+ 2 that are missing.  engine was running, but smokey, due to low compression on one cylinder,  before I started on it.  why a different number of pickups and how to set crank to valves, any suggestion  /   advice please.  sorry about the typing in advance

BOF

I cannot set crank due to the following  timing pin should be in flywheel at 50 deg, i.e. crank position sensor hole.  manual stated 36 lugs, with one missing for 50 deg position. ????  I have 58 pick up points+ 2 that are missing.  engine was running, but smokey, due to low compression on one cylinder,  before I started on it.  why a different number of pickups and how to set crank to valves, any suggestion  /   advice please.  sorry about the typing in advance

 

Well, I can't tell you what to do about it, but the reason for the increased number of 'teeth' in the counting system is to increase accuracy and repeatability of the timing of, eg, the fuel injection. The 36 (minus one) system allows for a raw timing resolution of 5 degrees (crank) and the 60 (minus two) system allows for 3 degrees. Now while there is interpolation that occurs after this, you are better off starting from the finer resolution and interpolating from there.

 

Don't know what to do about the fact the the Haynes appears to be wrong for your vehicle. Maybe a search will find you something on-line.

wase16ll
where are the two missing lugs....are the 180 degs apart?
if i understand your problem correctly, why not turn crank to tdc, then using an angular torque wrench, turn back 50 degs, fit the locking pin...job jobbed:)
spannerman
hello tony

the two missing lugs are next to each other. I have now set the engine to tdc, then turned back 50 deg, and put the chain on at this position. engine now back in car, tries to start, but wll not run.
checked using formidable - according to lap top, two injectors have values, the other two have all zeros.
I am now thinking that the two with all zeros are not firing at all ????
wase16ll
try reprogramming the injectors.
if they were removed, were they refitted in same cylinder they came from
spannerman

try reprogramming the injectors.
if they were removed, were they refitted in same cylinder they came from

all the injectors are where they should be. I have read in all the codes to the car using formidable, using the codes from the injectors. car will still not start. traced the fuel pump solenoid wiring back to the main engine connection multiplug. checked for continuity from multiplug to solenoid plug on injection pump, all ok. broke into the cables at the multiplug to check for voltage. when cranking no voltage, when stop cranking, I get 12v for @ 2 seconds only. would still like to be sure valve timing is ok I cannot find any information on crank setting, with flywheel having 58 pick-ups, with two missing, same flywheel is listed on ebay as mondeo tdci
wase16ll
autodata doesnt tell you how many teeth on flywheel, but on your engine, still states crank at 50deg btdc.
i wouldnt take haynes as gospel with regards to number of teeth, this will vary on auto or manual, wether it has a dmf or solid flywheel for eg.

got to go back to work, but if there is doubt about fuel system, try using easy start, see what happens.
spannerman
tried easy start.it ran for @ 5 seconds, but rough. did a compression test originally cranking pressures were :-


cylinder 1 200lbs 2/3/4 all 400lbs so had a bent rod, which i replaced

now cylinder 1/2/3 around 300lbs cylinder 4 100lbs
so I think that maybe timing is one tooth out on the crank. when engine rebuilt it was turned over by hand to check piston / valve contact, and it did not appear to have a problem, so I hope that I have not bent any valves it has a dual mass flywheel with a 5 speed manual gearbox 130bhp. I have used formidable to reprogramme the injectors. no fault codes in pcm diagnostics
wase16ll
cant really think straight right now mate, just had some expensive gear stolen this pm...
but would have thought compression would be down on both 1 and 4 if timing wrong...sounds like you have a problem on 4 no doubt, but thought it would still be enough to get engine going....
did you make a note of how many piston strokes it took to get up to compression, i.e...did no 1 take more strokes than 2&3?
spannerman
it took @ three strokes to get the readings. before I rebuilt the engine, cylinder no1 was at 200psi, due to sucking in water and the car put out a white smoke screen for the first 10 minutes of running from cold, with a definite engine shake. not sure what is problem now. I want to be 100% on the correct valve timing before stripping down again
wase16ll
well, as you know, definitely have a problem on 4
just double checked on another list, says the same, 50deg btdc, so just take your time getting that spot on.

wouldnt hold too much faith in haynes regards the teeth, but maybe worth a call to a ford dealer for info to be sure.
spannerman

down loaded a manual for an x-type jag, fitted with tdci engine. same information about crank setting, i.e. 50 deg before tdc, but in much more detail than the Haynes manual

I have now pulled the engine back out of the car. I will double check the valve timing first. I can do a compression test out of the car.  do not want to take the head off. unless it is really necessary. might try loosening off the rocker shaft next. just in case a valve clearance is a bit tight

spannerman
valve timing was spot on. took the head off and found the smallest speck of carbon on the valve on cylinder no4. decided to grind in all valves. did a compression test in garage, all cylinders @ 320 lbs. engine now in the car again. recoded all the injectors again. tries to start, but wont. driving me mad. never had so much problems with a engine
wase16ll
i know how you feel when after putting so much work in, niggles can really get to you

so now you can forget about timing and compression
sounds like a fueling problem, going back to previous about injectors showing zero value...you still getting this now...

anything showing on scanner
what happens with a dose of easy squirt
spannerman
checked with the scanner, no codes found. tried some easy start - engine started and ran, very badly. pulled the electrical plugs off the injectors, one at a time with the engine running cylinders 1 and 2 have no apparent effect. cylinders 3 and 4 have a noticeable effect. so appears that 1 and 2 cylinders are not firing. checked compression again, all ok, checked heater plugs, all failed. were ok when I started the job, so I may have killed them, with the long cranking sessions. so 4 heater plugs now on order. next might try swapping 1+2 for 3+4, and reprogramming to see if cylinders 1 and 2 run ok ??
wase16ll
seems fair enough.
can your scanner read live data..might help show something out on cranking
spannerman

I sorted the problem at last.  the engine ran on cylinders 3 + 4 only for around 5 minutes, then decided to stop shaking too much on tick over. ran for @ 3 minutes at 2500 rpm, then tick over seemed a little better. took a chance and slowly drove down the road, ran but still shaking. put my boot down, crept up to @ 2000 rpm, let out a large grey / white cloud of exhaust smoke. then took off like a rocket ship. drove @ the block, tick over still a little bit shakey . went around the block a couple of times, now running perfectly fine, with no problems at all. 

  thank you for all the advice given by various members 

 

                                                                                      spannerman

wase16ll
good for you mate.
its recommended to drive car when injectors are recoded so values get relearnt....but have never seen them as bad as you experienced so wouldnt have expected that result...learn something everyday :)
stooge75

so what was it then? seems odd that injectors would run so rough,then all of a sudden,run ok lol.

glad that youre sorted mate.Its a right headache when something like that happens.



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