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Silverdogs

I bought a 2003 Mondeo TDCi estate a couple of months ago. It has a full service history so I wasn't too worried about it having anything seriously wrong with it.

 

I've never owned a diesel before and it drives really well, no problems or strange noises, accelerates nicely thanks to the turbo, but when the engine is idling it sounds rattly until I put the clutch down and then the rattling stops. Should I be concerned? We saved for three months to buy a car after the head gasket went on our Vectra and I bought it on my own with no help, so if anything is seriously wrong it, it's going to be my fault of course!

DanGersFord
Could be the crank shaft pully
Silverdogs

Ok, big job, little job, expensive job?

DanGersFord
Shouldnt be too bad but id take it to a garage and just get them to check it over first theres a few things that could cause a rattle :)
DanGersFord
Can you hear where abouts the noise is coming from?
Silverdogs

The engine! :D

 

Sorry, I'll open the bonnet tomorrow and listen, but I don't really know one engine part from another. I know where to put the oil and water and jump leads, but that's about as far as my knowledge goes and my husband is the same (he wouldn't admit it, though).

DanGersFord
Lol thats what I meant what area of the car is it coming from lol
Frogfoot

clutch release bearing maybe ?  if its worn and vibrating on the clutch pressure plate it could cause the noise, when you press the clutch down the load on the bearing may then cause the noise to go.

Silverdogs

Of course it would sound different when the clutch is pressed, but my ear is not well tuned to the normal sound of a diesel engine and I could be worrying about nothing. There just seems to be something extra that doesn't sound normal. I have taken a video, not sure if it helps or not!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImPKbw6WYzo&feature=youtu.be

dogdays1

If this noise disappears when you dip the clutch it could be the DMF on the way out.Get an opinion from a clutch center then shop around for the best price.

Steelie600

100% clutch release bearing on its way out. Ill bet my mortgage on it!

 

While your having that done id recommend you get the clutch and dual mass flywheel done at the same time.

dogdays1

If you get the DMF and clutch replaced best take a valium before they give you the estimate!

Silverdogs

Thanks. If it was the clutch release bearing wouldn't it make a noise when the clutch was depressed, rather than the other way round?

 

What's a DMF?  :unsure:

Silverdogs

If you get the DMF and clutch replaced best take a valium before they give you the estimate!

OMG I'm scared to even think about that!

Silverdogs

Dual Mass Flywheel of course! Silly me. :rolleyes:

dogdays1

I am afraid to tell you a new DMF and clutch assembly will set you back between £800 and £1300 depending who does the job. Lets hope the DMF is OK ! I had one done this week and it cost me £814, the symptom was a clattering noise at tickover and when the engine shut down. How many miles has your car done?

Silverdogs

Oh.............My...........God, I can't tell my husband! It's done 137k

Silverdogs

Ok just been out to test a couple of things after reading your replies. There is no vibration on the clutch pedal and it doesn't rattle when the engine is switched off. Better start saving again anyway!

dogdays1

We are only assuming its the Clutch/DMF,it could be anything. Its hard to say without actually looking at the car. Best get expert advice from someone in the trade you can trust.

Silverdogs

Yes I will when I have the money to get something done about it, but from what I've read here and elsewhere online it seems to be the most popular diagnosis.

Steelie600

If its not rattling when you switch off the DMF is fine. But I would still recommend a clutch while your in there. 

 

Release bearings make this kind of noise, is noisy when no load on them but shut up when you depress the pedal. Im a technician with over 20 years experience and this is my bread and butter.

 

Parts for the clutch and bearing your only looking about £100-£150 from a parts factor. and to fit its a 6 hour job because the gearbox has to come off.

 

Dont be too dis-heartened its just generalwear and tear its not a sign of other serious issues

dogdays1

Please let us know how this turns out. Good luck

Silverdogs

If its not rattling when you switch off the DMF is fine. But I would still recommend a clutch while your in there. 

 

Release bearings make this kind of noise, is noisy when no load on them but shut up when you depress the pedal. Im a technician with over 20 years experience and this is my bread and butter.

 

Parts for the clutch and bearing your only looking about £100-£150 from a parts factor. and to fit its a 6 hour job because the gearbox has to come off.

 

Dont be too dis-heartened its just generalwear and tear its not a sign of other serious issues

Thanks Kev! :) So how much am I looking at for a new clutch fitted? Are these release bearing thingies part of the clutch or something separate?

 

Love your avatar btw!

Silverdogs

Please let us know how this turns out. Good luck

Thanks for your help, that's another thing to add to my knowledge about cars. :D

Steelie600

expect to pay about £300 is for a clutch AND release bearing fitted at a decent independant. Stay away from national chains. Your purse will thank you for that later!

Silverdogs

Thanks Kev, that's more bearable. :)

Silverdogs

So far I've had a quote for £900 and one person has said if I keep driving it, not only the clutch will go, but the starter motor, too. Another has said the clutch will go, but as we're going to replace the clutch anyway it's not such a big problem if it can hold out until we have the money saved. Just about to phone a local garage I trust for another quote.

dogdays1

If you can get a flywheel ( same type  as Ford fitted) , a full clutch and concentric release bearing kit  fitted for £900 including the VAT you are doing quite well. Do not even consider a solid fly wheel as you will regret it later, when you drive the car. 137000 miles is not bad for a DMF as they are considered a service item like brakes and exhausts. Remember the labour is a big part of this job so get good bits fitted.

 I had mine done at Mr Clutch in Wycombe. I know them quite well and they have always treated me fairly.  

Silverdogs

Well I'm confused now! What was Kev talking about when he said £300? :wacko:

DanGersFord
Is it a kindve squeeky rattle?
Silverdogs

No, not squeaky. :)

dogdays1

I really don't know. I think he was talking about a clutch / flywheel kit you see on Ebay, but what they are like I don't know.

  Its the  fitting labour that costs the money, so why risk cheap parts that may fail.  Years of working as service engineer on bottling plant  has taught me, that you do the job once and do it properly!

DanGersFord

No, not squeaky. :)


Just incase it was somethin daft like the heatshield or something I had that on mine spent ages trying to figure out where it was coming from and found that the heat sheild for the exhaust had rusted where it joined to the car and came loose
Silverdogs

Got a quote from Ford for comparison and they said £595 & more than likely you will also need a Dual Mass Flywheel which will be £492.36. I thought the DMF was part of the clutch! :wacko: 

dogdays1

The clutch assembly  bolts onto the DMF, but is not included with the DMF.

Does this price include the release bearing , fluids, and VAT?

I suppose a reputable garage has heard the clatter and agreed its the DMF? They will know instantly they hear it. 

Silverdogs

So I may not need the clutch assembly but just the DMF? I'll take it down today and get them to listen to it.

Silverdogs

Took it down to a trusted garage for him to listen and it's definitely the DMF. He will get me some prices to replace the whole lot but said it wouldn't be £1000. Well that's a tiny glimmer of hope. :unsure:  He said if I drove it too long it wear somethingorother on the gearbox but it will take us months to save up the money so I guess I'll only have to use it when absolutely necessary. We seem to be back to the same position we were in a few months ago when the last car broke and we were saving for a new one. but that's a pitfall of having to drive a 10 year old car.

dogdays1

Having just been through this problem with the Focus I know exactly what you mean. Hopefully I can keep the Focus till all my house refurbing projects are done, then get shot of both the old cars and buy a new one.

 

As a matter of interest. Honest John at the Daily Telegraph reckons that the next generation of cars will only be good for 7 years, after that the repairs will cost more than the cars worth. I suspect this will put motoring  beyond the pocket of many people.

Silverdogs

Probably a bid to get people out of their cars and on to awful public transport.

 

We paid £1500 for the car and that was really more than we could afford, I knocked him down from £1700 and thought we'd be ok for a while because it had a full service history. We had to sell our 2001 Vectra for a few hundred because the head gasket went and it would have cost more than the car was worth for a new engine. If the head gasket hadn't gone it would have been something else by now. My husband is complaining bitterly about it needing a new clutch already but it's 10 years old and was bound to need something done to it within a few months. I work from home and rarely go out of Reading which keeps the mileage down. If I had to commute to work it would probably be worse, but that's my optimistic view and he's a pessimist. :angry:

dogdays1

Sometimes I think that a smaller petrol car of around the 1300cc mark is the better bet when you are on a budget. We had 2002 Toyota  petrol Yaris from new, and it was superb. My wife hit a new Mercedes and it was written off at 9 years old, but in the time we had it, all it only was needed servicing,brakes and tyres. It never even needed a new bulb in its lamps and it still had the original battery.

The replacement  petrol Yaris ( 2010 optimal drive) does a few miles less MPG (about 47 on a run) than the Focus Diesel but its smooth and quiet and goes well down the motorways. Our Border Collie is also happy on the back seat when we drive to Cornwall.

Silverdogs

I have two male Weimaraners and will always have an estate. When we got our first we had a Ford Cougar which I really liked and Enzo travelled on the back seat, but the hair got everywhere and he kept tangling himself up in the seatbelt and harness. Now he's 10 and has arthritis, he needs a bit of comfort, although would be happy for his younger brother to travel on the back seat and for him to have the boot to himself. :lol: I don't think I could put up with the barking right in my ear, either. At least if they're in the boot it's a bit further away!

Frogfoot

has anyone gone down the route of getting the parts from ebay ? seams to be a few dmf,s listed for a 2003 mondeo

Silverdogs

I'd be concerned about the quality. My mechanic said there were several options on parts and they differ in price so I presume they differ in quality.

dogdays1

They certainly do differ in quality. The people who did mine insist on fitting the same manufacturer as was originally used by Ford. They also refuse to fit the solid type replacement flywheels, as they feel that customers will only come back and complain.

 

I also doubt the garage would be very happy about you sourcing your own bits for them to fit. I think eBay bits are ok if you can do the job yourself at home and can take the risk, or if you are getting shot of the vehicle quickly.

Silverdogs

Best price from my trusted garage is £600 + VAT, so that's alot better than the £900/£1000 I've been told before. He said he does alot of them and can do them quite quickly. I'm a little happier now, but still have to raise £700 and can't drive it too much because it could affect the starter motor and gearbox.

dogdays1

This £600+Vat is very reasonable. I suppose they are using good quality parts and changing all the bits including the concentric release bearing assembly? Before taking the car in best check this.

 

The car will certainly be better when its done. It will be smoother and the clutch will be lighter.

Silverdogs

Yes I will check, thanks. I think the labour is not as high as the other quotes because he does alot of them and he and one of his mechanics can do them quite quickly together. Some garages don't seem keen on doing the job but it seems quite a common job for him. I've known him for 15 years and I can trust him.

Silverdogs

Got another quote from Mr. Clutch for comparison.

 

Replacement clutch, concentric slave cylinder and dual mass £826.35 including VAT parts and labour.

 

What is a concentric slave cylinder, none of the others have mentioned it?

dogdays1

The concentric cylinder is the modern version of the hydraulic cylinder and release bearing. The cylinder used to live outside on the gearbox bell housing and work a pivoted lever that went to the release bearing  inside the gearbox housing. Nowadays its built into and inside the unit and is impossible to get to without the complete dismantling of the power unit/clutch assembly, which you will be having done to replace the DMF.  That's why it needs to be changed, even if there is nothing wrong with it.

Silverdogs

Oh that's ok then, I thought it would another bit I'd have to pay for! Thanks. :)



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