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tkeenan2107

hey everyone wondered if anyone could help, 3 days ago I purchased a mondeo mk3 tdci privately, and for the past day or so iv been having problems starting it, I turn the key in the ignition and the immobiliser, flashes away at me, at first it took a few attempts at turning the key to get it to go through and start the engine, I took it down to a local garage and he said what it seems to him is that one key with the 3 buttons opens and locks but the other just turns the ignition barrel so advised me to hold the 3button key close to the barrel, this I thought worked unil today, today I don't think its took less that 15mintes at a time to get it to start, luckily I have a friend who works at ford so iv took it along to him after explaining my problems over the phone and said the key at turns the ignition just wants coding, so after him telling me the price I took it down and he had a go at recoding it, NO LUCK!, the computer he was using to recode was saying there was a fault and it was possibly the PATS module, but told me to eliminate the ring around the ignition first and purchase one of those, after finding out that the £150 inc VAT a ford I went to a local dismantlers that he said was good and got one, come home changed it over still no luck, so the next thing is the PATS module, what Im guessing I need to know now is where is it? can it be fixed? is it simple and is it expensive? as its my work car so need it fixing to earn my bread and butter,

 

hanks for taking the time to read this, and thanks for the replies if any in advance

stooge75

this might be wrong but i just read on another forum that some mk3's had external PATS module beside handbrake & some mk3's have it incorporated into the ECU in tandem with the transceiver around ignition barrel. someone here should know though. I had a similar problem on another car & it drove me crazy!

tkeenan2107

yes its driving me bloody nuts and after having a new key cut at Ford and them programming both keys, on top of purchasing another receiver that goes around the barrel, im trying to eliminate starting from the cheapest and working my way upwards but the only thing I see now it it being what my friend at ford said and that's the Pats module its self, but I haven't a clue when it comes to diagnostics and electrics, so wouldn't even know who to take it to? could it be replaced with another or will it need a whole new ecu?

stooge75

on etis it says:

Principles of Operation

General

The passive anti-theft system (PATS) uses radio frequency identification technology and a unique encryption code to deter a drive away theft. Passive means that it does not require any activity from the user.

Encoded Ignition Key

The PATS uses a specially encoded ignition key. Each encoded ignition key contains a permanently installed electronic device called a transponder. Each transponder contains a unique electronic identification code which may be any one of millions of combinations. Each encoded ignition key must be programmed to the vehicle's PATS control function within the powertrain control module (PCM) before it can be used to start the engine. There are special diagnostic repair procedures outlined in this manual that must be carried out if an encoded ignition key needs to be changed.

The PATS transponder key is identified by a blue insert. Previous PATS transponder keys that have a red insert are not compatible with this vehicle and must not be used.

Only Ford approved ignition keys should be used as some aftermarket encoded ignition keys not purchased from a Ford approved source may fail to operate especially at extreme temperatures.

NOTE: If a non programmed key has been used, further key reading is inhibited for 20 seconds. During this 20 seconds, no ignition key will start the engine.

A minimum of 2 encoded ignition keys must be programmed to a vehicle in order for the engine to start. A maximum of 8 ignition keys may be programmed to a vehicle. The PATS control function within the PCM will enter Anti-Scan Mode if an attempt to start the vehicle with a non programmed ignition key (with the correct mechanical cut) is made.

PATS Control Function

The control functions are contained in the PCM. This module carries out all of the PATS functions, such as receiving the identification code from the encoded key and controlling engine enable. The PCM initiates the encoded key interrogation sequence when the vehicle ignition switch is turned to II or III. When the key is turned to the 0 position, the PCM will remain powered up for approximately five seconds. This is the maximum time allowed for the insertion of a second key to initiate the customer key programming sequence.

Transceiver Module

The transceiver module communicates with the PATS encoded ignition key. This module is located behind the steering column lower shroud and contains an antenna connected to a small electronic module. During each vehicle start sequence the transceiver module reads the encoded ignition key identification code and sends data to the PATS control function within the PCM. No re-initialization needs to occur with the removal or installation of a new PATS transceiver.

hope that makes it a bit clearer. looks like the PATS IS incorporated into the ECU/PCM

 

mate I'd take it to either a good auto-sparky,or to another Ford dealer. When you told me your mate said to look for the module etc,I thought if you went to Ford as a customer,they wouldnt say that. Their IDS/VMM should be able to pinpoint exactly whats up. Hell I know guys on another forum with IDS that'd definitely crack it,but theyre in another country.

ps:Ive PM'd you the self-test guide & wiring diagrams for the PCM/Transceiver. As I said if you're no good with a multimeter,an auto-sparky would suss it out 

tkeenan2107

hi yes he works at the Ford dealership in chapletown, and told me that it seems to be the Pats and his boss even had a play and that's what he said too, and that if it was he would expect it to be an expensive job to fix and maybe more than what the cars worth

Stoney871
You should be able to.
It may need pairing to the instrument cluster though as, if a Mondeo's systems are like the Focus, the cluster is an integral part of the immobiliser system.
tkeenan2107
Would it be a case of swapping them over and having it reprogrammed?
stooge75

Would it be a case of swapping them over and having it reprogrammed?

yes.someone who's got IDS/focom etc will be able to prog it all

tkeenan2107
Thanks for the feedback it really is appreciated, iv been and purchased the ecu/pcm and all the barrels, only 1 key though so hoping he will programme my other one, going to have a go at changing them all over in the morning then call out the local auto electrician, i just hope its not a brake in the wiring
stooge75

ok.was it giving you any codes? Is it communicating with ecu & immobiliser? guy on other forum is asking.he thinks you're doing the wrong thing by installing the other ecu etc right away,in case its something else(thats correctable)

upto you though.good luck :)

tkeenan2107
Hi i believe it is communicating as and when it wants to, like i said its been taking about 100 turns of the key and thats not 1 less, it really has become a nightmare and its just a case of pot luck if it starts or not, when my friend had it hooked up to his computer it was coming back as a pats module fault, so i bought a ecu&pcm and all the door locks and matching keys yesterday from a local garage that just deals with ford and he said that he would be amazed if what im doing didnt fix it
tkeenan2107
Well had a pig of a day today got to ecu out to find out i purchased the wrong one but the guy i got it from was good enough to give me a refund so try agaib tomorrow
stooge75

not so good then.

do you know what ecu you need now then? just outta curiosity did it show any codes when it wouldnt start(when the guy at ford hooked it up to IDS?). guy on another forum is asking.

was it communicating with immobiliser system? he seems to think it should have a specific code if its not communicating with PATS. when i told him that its only 1 in 100 turns he maintains its probably not the ECU

Stoney871
I'm inclined to agree, it could just be the transponder ring around the ignition barrel.
stooge75

he replaced the transceiver with one from scrappys though. I have a feeling its something silly.

forgot to ask you. did you do an ECU reset?

also,try having a read of this:http://www.fordpats.com/

the part under where it says new data from our readers

i know its not for mk3 mondeo but its same PATS system.you never know

tkeenan2107
Hi when he hooked it up all it showed was
-pats module fault

so he said go to the scrap yard down the road and purchase another transponder ring for the ignition barrel which i did got it home replaced that amd still no luck! So that left it down to the ecu as the pats is encorperated into it,
yes i purchased a bosch ecu which was wrong as mines a delphi, but with the bosch one i got all the locking barrels to the ecu but the delphi one i havent so the guy i purchased the bosch one from has been kind enough to give me a set just means having 2 seperate keys
Dan62

.

tkeenan2107
the ecu i purchased yesterday only has 1 key with it and not the matching locks just the 3 fob key the matches the ecu so when i purchase the locks ill then have 2 seperate keys
Dan62

.

tkeenan2107
No the original key matches up with the ecu, all the codes matched, but for some reason it wasnt reading them correctly so he ran a test on it and it came back pats module fault,
Stoney871
No need to fit the ignition barrel.
Just use the ECU/ring/fob and swap the key blades over so the key still operates the door locks and ignition.
A type 2 (horseshoe) key has the transponder chip in the fob whereas a type 3 (flip) key has the transponder in the removable blade section.
tkeenan2107
Funny you should just say that, the brother in law has just rang to say we will do that today, and hopefully get the auto electrician out
Stoney871
Daft to faff about changing the barrel when all that needs doing is the transponder etc.
Saves about an hours work and having the pain of two different keys to the car.
tkeenan2107
Funny you should just say that, the brother in law has just rang to say we will do that today, and hopefully get the auto electrician out
tkeenan2107
Ya think thats what ill do and just get another key cut for backup!
Dan62

.

tkeenan2107

right guys great news fitted the new ecu in and central locking unit and switched the key fobs over and BAM it starts right up, every turn of the key the immobiliser goes off the car started up but I have been told 2 things one that the pumps and injectors will need recoding to the new ecu, but someone who works on only fords has told me that if it has started up then its the same codes because if it wasn't the same codes the immobiliser would go off but the car wouldn't start which it has so he said I was very lucky in the fact its all got the same codes! but do I get the auto electrician out just to be on the safe side?

stooge75

right guys great news fitted the new ecu in and central locking unit and switched the key fobs over and BAM it starts right up, every turn of the key the immobiliser goes off the car started up but I have been told 2 things one that the pumps and injectors will need recoding to the new ecu, but someone who works on only fords has told me that if it has started up then its the same codes because if it wasn't the same codes the immobiliser would go off but the car wouldn't start which it has so he said I was very lucky in the fact its all got the same codes! but do I get the auto electrician out just to be on the safe side?

excellent mate. nah if it runs it runs.ive never heard of someone having that kinda luck tho before

tkeenan2107
Me too! But going to get the auto electrician out just to be on the safe side
tkeenan2107
So got the auto electrician out and because it fires straight up he said its a virgin ecu which means its blank so he said he doesnt need to touch it so just had to pay the call out fee
Stoney871
I'd say that was a good result.
Everything running as it should?
tkeenan2107
Ok so after running it for a while the EML came on so got the auto electrician out again and the following faults came up

injection meter reading
injection pressure low
injection pump

He said to put some diesel in it with some injection cleaner take it for a run if that doesnt help then its going to cost a small fortune to fix didnt think i could get anymore bad luck
Stoney871
Could be that the injectors need coding to the new ECU.

Sent using Ford OC mobile app

stooge75

Could be that the injectors need coding to the new ECU.

Sent using Ford OC mobile app

even if its firing up stoney?

tkeenan2107
when he first connected it up he said for it to fire up it means you have a virgin ecu which means the codes are blank so will pair up to any others, so nothing needed coding! But then i ran it to the shops and back and noticed it was hesitant and the eml came on so called him back out and he put his fault code computer on it and it came back with those
Dan62

.

stooge75
Suppose its worth a shot at reprogramming them. Do you know anyone with an F-Super cable & use formidable software thats free online. Should be done on a stone cold engine though.
Only takes 1min to programme.see if the auto-sparky will do it as a 'goodwill'😱
tkeenan2107
Cheers guys much appreciated i will give him a call in the morning and see what he thinks
tkeenan2107
Right guys manage to sort it out infact it wasnt the injector pump or sensor, but just the pipe from egr to intercooler that was split and with the added air being sucked it was sending all the sensors nuts, and driving like a dog with its nuts tied! But took it for its mot and bang FAILURE, failed on a few things so spent best part of today sorting it out so retest this week
stooge75

ah good.glad you got to the bottom of it though. yeah mines failed mot 2 days ago on both fr to rear brake pipes corroded & unbelievably a tyre was fitted the wrong way round. all sound now though :lol:

tkeenan2107
Ah mines failed on rear brake pads, handbrake cable, anti roll bar dust cap, nearside brake light out, and the previous owner changed the front parking lights to blue so failed me on that too, drivers door handle not correctly opening, and my steering column, who ever had the car before me must have took the gear box and what not out and about the uj to the steering column theres a triangular piece with a piece of white plastic in it, well thats dropped out and they havent put it back in so they was about 4 in of play in the steering wheel either way before it actually turned the wheels so iv replaced that! So a productive day
stooge75

quite a bit eh. your door problem could be that theres a little c-clip that,over the years, moves so needs to be set-up correctly again. (quite a pain,from what i hear).i hate doing door problems.not got the patience for em. once i did my golf door module & got so frustrated with it,broke 2 little plastic rivets,so ended-up putting it into VW as i knew it'd be done right(inc the door sealing card etc). kicked myself when i got the bill=£84,all because of impatience lol.  

which part on steering column?

untitled_zpseb748891.png

tkeenan2107
Wow how did you get that picture? That would save me tonnes of searching!
Its the part between 6 and 7 its a triangular piece that slide up and down but on the inside its plastic, and its the plastic piece that was missing so iv replaced it now with another
stooge75
Lol.its from Mcat the Ford parts software. Ive had it for a while now. I got Mcat,etis,&autodata on another forum. Its SO handy,even gives part no's etc.
tkeenan2107

thats great stuff, really handy to have



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