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Full Version: Mondeo P0251 Injection Pump A - Circuit Malfunction (Cam/rotor/injector)
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AndrewGallon

HI Guys,

ford mondeo tdci 130 zetec s. 120,000 miles.

 

Car keeps cutting out alot just after glow plug light comes on could be a few seconds after setting off or a couple of minutes. totally random but happens more when foot is down and when at higher speeds 50-60. don't go any faster lol. also in limp but not always

 

it wont start off the key when cold it has to be bumped off.

 

Also it dont smoke or anything like that

 

when its warm it will start off the key but the longer you leave it the harder it gets to start.

 

Had an OBD reader on it and it come up with P0251 INJECTION PUMP A - CIRCUIT MALFUNCTION (cam/rotor/injector)

 

 

P1000 undefined code

P1000

 

I have put a grey cam sensor in mine was black..  i have a new fuel filter i am going to put in tomorrow doubt itll fix it but wont do any harm in trying. 

Any experience with these codes??? Any help would be great..Cheers Guys i only bought it 4 days ago and the guy failed to mention these issues apart from he said it wouldn't start off the key. i thought him being a fireman might of been honest never mind eh..

mick85
First thing u need check wiring but sounds like a PCM problem but it also could be pump but start by testing wiring from PCM to injection pump
wase16ll

got to be worth trying a set of glow plugs, or at least test the ones you have

 

ignore the p1000...its a minor code that often appears...something to do with incomplete obd test....doesnt affect engine/running

AndrewGallon

Hi Mick, Thanks for your reply. Please pardon my ignorance but what is a pcm. Is this an easy fix? 

 

It is absolutely doing my head in :(

 

Cheers

AndrewGallon

Cheers wase would faulty glow plugs make it cut out and give that code. I dont rule out thats maybe why its not a good starter :)

mick85
PCM is brain of the car it's ecu ford just call it that but same thing if u don't get anywhere wit the glow plugs let me know if Ur pump is Bosch or Delphi system an I try help u out with were to go next
AndrewGallon

right well i think my next 3 steps are changing fuel filter, checking the wiring and glow plugs.I heard something tonight about some wires that may of corroded as such from the cam sensor.. Is this right ??

 

How much is ECU reprogramming ''roughly'' same as a remap??

mick85
It could easily be down to wires shorting out each other but to be honest there so many possibilities an this just guess work u need to start wit basics an work ur way through has ur car been remapped before any service history a remap is different to an upgrade when u go to ford main dealer with a drivability concern they check for a later calibration to rectify certain concerns they do remap it but when most people say wanna get it remapped to get more power they go to a specialist were they remap to get more power not to fix drivability concern
AndrewGallon

It has a full service history half main dealer, I dont no if it has had a remap or not the guy i bought it off said his brother serviced the car and then it wouldnt start off the key would only bump start but he didnt say it was cutting out or anything to me. just strung me a line one thinks lol.

mintalkin

one of the common causes of P0251 is an injector returning too much fuel, the best thing you can do is get an injector leak off test done, this will confirm if one of the injectors is playing up.

mick85
Right tel me ur year an wat make diesel injection pump is your car is giving u a fault that injection pump fuel metering control circuit malfunction this mean ur problem lies with this circuit so could be an internal fault in ur ecu the wiring bad or ur pump knackered hopefully it's the wiring cause pump an ecu both over a thousand quid could u not throw car back at this chancer that p1000 means someone tried delete faults so he new there was this problem an was off loading it on someone else
AndrewGallon

 how much does that cost roughly, is there much work involved with that  @ mintalkin

Thanks for all  replies guys getting some good info feeling as if there is hope lol.

 

 

 
AndrewGallon

Registered year 2004 on a 53 plate and im sure i seen delphi parts on the car on things ive seen i can check tomorrow to be certain, where is the pumps location? part i seen with delphi wrote on it was at the front to the left of the starter motor. cheers for your reply.

mick85
Yeah the pump is at front engine runs off timing chain let me know tomorrow there a lot of helpful people on this who know there stuff I sure u will eventually figure it out u will definitely need a multimeter but to carry out most tests on wiring
wase16ll

there are many common faults on the tdci that can lead to a p0251 code

 

pump...very common..very.expensive if pump has sent filings around the fuel system as the lot will need cleaning/flushing...when you remove the old filter and cut it open, look for metal filings, if you find some be nice to your bank manager

 

filter...blocked

 

fuel pressure sensor or wiring/connection

 

fuel pump sensor or wiring/connection

 

injector/s...carry out a leak off test, will give an idea if faulty

 

injector recoding

 

glow plugs....worth testing as have seen something as simple as this set funny, totally unrelated codes/running issues but at minimum, may help with starting problem

BOF

ford mondeo tdci 130 zetec s. 120,000 miles.

 

Car keeps cutting out alot just after glow plug light comes on could be a few seconds after setting off or a couple of minutes. totally random but happens more when foot is down and when at higher speeds 50-60. don't go any faster lol. also in limp but not always

 

it wont start off the key when cold it has to be bumped off.

 

Had an OBD reader on it and it come up with P0251 INJECTION PUMP A - CIRCUIT MALFUNCTION (cam/rotor/injector)

That sounds as if it might (just might) be an electrical problem with the various speed sensors in the system, and getting inconsistent results from them. It is probably worth pulling out various relevant connectors, spraying with WD40, working the connectors in and out a few times and trying again. That part is so low cost, that it has to be worth a try.

 

After that, I think the best suggestion os a visit to a Diesel Specialist (Bosch, or similar) in your area. The rest of the stuff is so difficult if you don't know what you are doing with diesels that I think it would turn out best. 

 

When you say that it cuts out at up to a couple of minutes after setting out, does that mean that if you ran it at idle, or maybe faster, for a couple of minutes and then set out, it would be ok? That's not general advice for running the car, just that it would be a bit of evidence to know what is happening.

 

it wont start off the key when cold it has to be bumped off.

 

You are saying that the car will crank (at a normal speed) from the key, but that doesn't start it, aren't you?

 

I have put a grey cam sensor in mine was black..  

 

So, you have changed the cam sensor for a new one (?). Did you get this from Ford, or somewhere else? Did this change anything about the symptoms? And, this cam sensor is not the same as the old one, but, as far as you can see it is only the colour that is different? What makes you think that this new sensor is the right one (did whoever sold you this tell you, and do you think that they actually knew)?

 

How did the old sensor look (any evidence of damage, even slight, to the sensing part? any crud at the tip?) and could you examine the teeth that it senses closely to tell anything about their condition?

 

What about the temperature sensor? Does the wiring to it look ok, and does the dash temperature gauge read sensibly (and, if you can read ECU parameters, does it seem to have sensible temperatures that start off from ambient and warm up in roughly the correct way)?

 

And, there are no other mystery electrical problems on the car, are there, that might be indicative of something like a bad earth connection?

 

Sorry about all the questions, but with a car of this age and which has been sold by someone who has been, err, economical with the truth at the time of sale, taking things for granted is rather risky. One of the reasons that a specialist might be best placed to home in on the issues, because there are so many possibilities...

AndrewGallon
Hi BOF, thanks for your info q's I will try and answer as best I can .
The car does crank at a normal speed when trying to start but won't fire up.
When it has been running it will start of a couple of cranks if it try for too long with the key it will stop and bring a flashing glow plug light.
Normally once started and ''driving'' at speeds more than 20 hasn't cut out under that speed.
Any speed about 20 the glow light will come on and will cut out. If I take 1st through its full gear then 2nd at top revs it will have a glow plug light and cut out once in 3 rd gear, it seems to be when I want more power/speed that it does it more regular.
So 3rd 4th 5th 6th glow plug light and cut out.

Cam sensor looks exactly the same give my reg and he give me that one no visual damage to old sensor that's visible
I have changed my fuel filter today now from what looks to me as some one said in earlier post metal filings. Only a few though cut filter open and found not on the filter and there was another 2 on the bottom.
I am going to look up where the temperature sensor and variable speed sensors are. Cheers guys
BOF

OK, I don't know to make of this, but it is really odd that it seems to depend on vehicle speed rather than engine revs.

 

'Bad' sensing of the cam is the kind of thing that can cause this type of fault, but that could be

  • bad cam sensor, itself
  • bad (badly corroded, out of round) cam toothed wheel
  • incorrect clearance between sensor and toothed wheel
  • bad wiring back to the module

(and basically the same stuff on the crank sensor, because all that has to happen is for the two to disagree for the controller to know that there is a problem and not know which is wrong).

 

If the temp sensor is reporting the wrong engine temperature (and not just slightly out, but considerably out) then the engine controller could be doing the wrong thing for the temperature that actually exists at the engine - if it is only slightly out, the engine will run a bit less well (maybe a minor loss of fuel economy, wrong idle speed or something), but it won't do this, so it would have to be pretty bad for this to be a cause.

 

Just one off-the-wall question; the car hasn't recently had the clutch and/or the dmf done recently, has it (as far as you know - maybe, the car came with bills and a service record)? Sometimes, if the clutch assembly disintegrates before it dies, it sheds enough metallic bits to stick to the crank sensor, and that can cause all sorts of weird symptoms.

 

Because it could be all sorts of odd things, it doesn't really make sense to go around changing all of the things that it might be until you find the right one - better to get someone with test equipment and experience on the job, if you can find someone that you trust.

wase16ll

would agree with a lot of what BOF said there....its a code that can be triggered by so many things.

 

would go through the simple/cheap tests and checks and deal with anything you find..if that doesnt sort it then diesel specialist is the best next port of call

 

wiring/connections...can dig out some voltage/resistence tests you can do with a simple meter if you want.

cam/crank sensors visual/volt/resistence tests

fuel pressure/pump sensor volt/resistence

injector leak off ( if not done before is fairly straightforward and easy to set up)

filter...already changed but needs to be a quality filter...plus you mentioned swarf in old one, not good sign but not necessarily terminal for pump either.

coding injectors...very simple if you can get hold of equipment to carry it out

glow plugs...trust me, well worth carrying out voltage/resistence test.

 

bear in mind that if it does end up going to diesel specialist, they will do all above anyway,  but the more you do and record all results the cheaper your bill will be.

AndrewGallon
Update guys changed the fuel filter very few of what looked like metal filings about 6 of them the size of fleas lol took the crank sensor out and it is absolutely covered in filings of the flywheel I have cleaned it but it don't look up to much. Think it is going to have to be a new one. Would this cause my issue...

I NEED MORE DAYLIGHT
wase16ll

quite possibly

could be sign of mass flywheel going unless been changed recently, also recommend removal of starter to thoroughly clean around the bendix as filings can ruin that too.

BOF

Update guys changed the fuel filter very few of what looked like metal filings about 6 of them the size of fleas lol took the crank sensor out and it is absolutely covered in filings of the flywheel I have cleaned it but it don't look up to much. Think it is going to have to be a new one. Would this cause my issue...

 

Bits of metal will divert the magnetic lines of flux and reduce the signal out of the crank sensor. If the signal is reduced enough, it could cause precisely this kind of problem.

 

Unfortunately, that's not a guarantee that you've found the problem (sort of assuming that it is a single problem, but, if we really don't trust the previous owner as a serial bodger, rather than thinking the he was just an unfortunate in a tricky situation, could be any combination of things wrong....which isn't really good news), but there is clearly a chance. You may not even need a new sensor (although, if there has been any mechanical damage to the sensor, then you probably do need a new sensor).



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