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topgazza
Hi

My sons car's driver seat has a pale "stain" shape. I have tried the usual car upholstery cleaner as well as carpet cleaner but the mark remains. The seat is dark blue with grey sides on a 2006 Zetec Climate. Someone suggested a proper car valeter to see what they can do. It looks like someone has spilt something that has dried its quite subtle but I can see it every time now....missed it when we bought the car...possibly someone cleaned it before with the wrong stuff. If its faded the colour then then the seat will need to be replaced

When the seat is damp during cleaning the mark can't be seen until it dries. Kind of like a limescale mark on stainless steel

Thinking about getting a replacement seat from a breaker but other than describe the seat as dark blue material with grey sides not sure what to call it. The car is a mid metallic blue. I'll try and find its paint colour when my son gets back in. But if anyone has any ideas of what colour the seats are...I would be grateful

Is it difficult to change a car seat and is there anything I need to be aware of....airbag etc ?
artscot79
[quote name='topgazza' post='40268' date='Aug 29 2009, 06:50 PM']Hi

My sons car's driver seat has a pale "stain" shape. I have tried the usual car upholstery cleaner as well as carpet cleaner but the mark remains. The seat is dark blue with grey sides on a 2006 Zetec Climate. Someone suggested a proper car valeter to see what they can do. It looks like someone has spilt something that has dried its quite subtle but I can see it every time now....missed it when we bought the car...possibly someone cleaned it before with the wrong stuff. If its faded the colour then then the seat will need to be replaced

When the seat is damp during cleaning the mark can't be seen until it dries. Kind of like a limescale mark on stainless steel

Thinking about getting a replacement seat from a breaker but other than describe the seat as dark blue material with grey sides not sure what to call it. The car is a mid metallic blue. I'll try and find its paint colour when my son gets back in. But if anyone has any ideas of what colour the seats are...I would be grateful

Is it difficult to change a car seat and is there anything I need to be aware of....airbag etc ?[/quote]
i doubt the valeters would get it out then you have 2 choices apply a fabric dye lightly on a damp cloth to the area or put covers on it i wouldnt go through all the hassle of a new seat for a stain besides breakers seats will need fully cleaned and dried out post a pic of the seat fabric dye will hide it if you get the right colour
topgazza
[quote name='artscot79' post='41245' date='Sep 3 2009, 01:00 PM']i doubt the valeters would get it out then you have 2 choices apply a fabric dye lightly on a damp cloth to the area or put covers on it i wouldnt go through all the hassle of a new seat for a stain besides breakers seats will need fully cleaned and dried out post a pic of the seat fabric dye will hide it if you get the right colour[/quote]


Funny enough a local professional car valeter suggested the same thing regarding the dye. As the seat is a dark blue he reckons he could do it and not affect the general colour. He's done it before. Using diluted dye, as you say, on a damp cloth. Only really works with very dark colours that just need feathering in so to speak.

Might give that a go. Although I'm still cleaning the seat every few days to see if that improves it.

Cheers
catch
I have a 55 plate 1.6 Zetect Cimate, Tonic Blue, now the seats sound exactly the same colour with grey sides. Now I give the car a very good look over inside and out, when I bought it last week from a Ford Dealer. I would have described the condition inside and out as "mint" Yet the next morning both front seats, drivers being the worse appear to me well stained, how could I miss that ? Obviously because I was tricked, you could not miss it otherwise, and I'm betting I would not have bought the car, unless I was offered a couple of hundred quid of it.

Looked at my final invoice, and there it was *SOLD AS SEEN* obviously it has a 12 months warranty. But that term is in relation the look of the vehicle.

Well I think it must be a trick of the trade, motors with worn or faded seats, they just ever so lightly run a damp cloth over them, not enough to feel wet when you sit on them for a test drive. I phoned the dealer to arrange a test drive, and obviously they knew what day I was picking it up, and again the seats looked fine.

At first to me it looked like a couple of builders had sat in the front seats in cement dusty overalls. Gave it a good clean with car upholstery shampoo. Looked great until the seats had dried out completely, no change.

So I also thought of trying to dye them, but the wife says what happens if you get into the car when soaking wet?
I suppose best thing to do is try it on the passenger side. Then get a damp cloth, place it on seat and weight it down. Or place very large lady on it whilst sat on a carrier bag. :rolleyes:

Now if I don't get a response to this post, I wont bother contributing any more. Better things to do than waste it talking to myself. Not meaning to come over as being stroppy, I'm just telling it how it is. :ph34r:

To be honest the FFOC is as bad, full of kids blinging motors up if you ask me, very little credible discussion. Only one reply , and that was infantile...has it got a crash bar behind the bumper, what kind of a reply is that. Best Car forum by a country mile is the Volvo one. Like minded people interested in cars and eager to help where they can.
topgazza
Thats sounds the same. After many cleans the seat does look better but I suspect its a problem with the colour/material as I've seen others with the same problem. If you do try teh diluted dye use a colour fast one
artscot79
[quote name='topgazza' post='46889' date='Oct 21 2009, 08:41 PM']Thats sounds the same. After many cleans the seat does look better but I suspect its a problem with the colour/material as I've seen others with the same problem. If you do try teh diluted dye use a colour fast one[/quote]
it is illegal for any trader or dealer to use the phrae sold as seen and does not effect youre rights.under the law he has broken it by using the words sold as seen check out trading standards website you can request it gets fixed and make it known you have spoken to trading standards and he can be prosecuted for using that term.
topgazza
Indeed.

Although essentially "sold as seen " is a legit term and does cover the supplier. Unless there is a material, no pun intended, fact that he has misdescribed or misled the buyer on. Such as colour, service record. Unfortuanatly its down to the buyer to make sure they have had a good look around the item. There is a situation where something cannot be checked and it could be argued that the seller would have been aware of it and the non disclosure element can kick in. Which is what I think the TS site is referring to. To be fair the seller HAS to declare any faults or issues and cannot just rely on "sold as seen". But other than that it is hard to prove once you have driven away. Although an independant engineer check could say that a fault would have been apparent to the seller, suspect brakes that only happen when hot for instance and a short test drive wouldn't prove that. Topping the water up if it empties after a journey shows that he has "hidden" a problem. So yes there is a come back for faults that can be proven to have been hidden or no declared when it is reasonable that the seller would have known about them


Not sure this could be argued or proven in the seat material case as a supplier could just claim it must have happened after the sale and as its something that is in full view.....however...I would go back to the dealer and ask him to rectfy it as I, as in my case, believe its an age thing and wouldn't suddenly appear in a car. Without accusing them they would have valeted the car so perhaps suggest that they unintentionaly covered the fault up by cleaning it before he arrived ?

I would think a main dealer would look at the seat and offer an opinion to back it up

Its not right but the law is designed to protect "honest" sellers against unscrupulous buyers.
catch
Cheers for the replies,

Topgazza, yes I've notice this problem on other Foci, so must be an inherent problem with that time of maunfacture.

This car has only done 32,700 so I would not have expected to see fade issues [if that is indeed what it is] with such little use. I had a T reg 10 year old mk1 Focus 1.8 Zetec with 79K on the clock, which was running well up until 30th Dec 09. Then an idiot failed to take a corner at high speed and crossed to the other side of the road and hit it head on, written off of course. But the seats where showing no sign of wear at all. I was gutted as I had a new clucth and front discs and pads fitted ten days earlier, at a really good price of 400. But what really matters is the wife who was driving and her mother a passenger did not suffer life threatening injuries.

Been spoilt in the seat department since then, as I bought a New shape Volvo S40 on a 54 plate, with heated leather seats. Long story, wife said she would not drive again, unless we got a Volvo, so I did, I loved it to bits, but she said the Focus was easier to drive, so we are back on Foci. What I do for a quite life, women have this capacity to just grind you down, its a gift I suppose.

Artscot79,

That term *sold as seen* appeared hand written on the order form I was given after doing the deal and leaving a deposit. It did not appear on the Invoice I was given on completeion of the deal. And whilst I agree with what you say regards it not having any legal clout behind it. Don't think I'll bother pushing the fade issue, because I don't think I would get far with it. Don't get me wrong I'm up for complaining if the odds are in my favour.

I've won issuse over 10 Focus DIY bog seats afte 2 years of use, Lid parted company from the seat as the screws on the hinges had corroded away. If I get no where at store level, I just go up the food chain so to speak. Retail store managers try and hide behind the 12 month warranty every time. Rubbish, it has to be fit for purpose.

After being ignored in reception for 45 minutes, I went outside and blocked the entrance to the Silver Cross pram factory [many many years ago] with my car. Until they fixed a design fault with their latest model of pram, the large wheels on their medium coach built prams were not fit for purpose, they kept buckling. Came out with a new set of wheels on it, fit to go on the Flying Scots Man.

Not long back I got a 70 parking ticket in an Aldi car park, I queued 1hour 45 mins to make sure I got a Media PC on special offer [ I could not build one myself at the price they were asking] Now Aldi only ever stock five per store, even though they do web adverts and take full page adverts in the Red Tops. They were sold out as soon as the first five people crossed the threshold at 9.00:15seconds. [obviously I was first]

I complained to the manager when I got the parking ticket , not interested told me to sort it out myself with the company contracted to manage the parking. I got onto Aldi Head office and told them to sort it, as my contract was with Aldi, not with some third party they have entered into a contract with. Sure enough it got cancelled, funny thing is Aldi do not have any way of contacting customer support on their website, even though they insist customer satisfaction is a top priorty. Back again recently [the manager must love me] bought a "Barber" type waxed jacket, first time out in a light shower, my actual shoulders were wet through, via the stiched seams on the shoulders. He said does it say rainproof on the label, I said for christs sake Aldi are advertising it as a waxed jacket, and as a matter of fact it does say its rain poof on the label....now can we get on
topgazza
I have made some comments on the "sold as seen". I won't repeat them but it does have some legal clout...as opposed to none. However, if it is not stated on the invoice, just the sales doc then you have something to go on. Worth making the call though and politely asking why this wasn't pointed out to you as it isn't a new porblem. If they say "sold as seen mate" then it does become a bit trickier. Is this a main dealer of just a "normal" one ?

If the latter its more of a challenge and as you say probably not worth it.
artscot79
[quote name='topgazza' post='46928' date='Oct 22 2009, 01:14 PM']I have made some comments on the "sold as seen". I won't repeat them but it does have some legal clout...as opposed to none. However, if it is not stated on the invoice, just the sales doc then you have something to go on. Worth making the call though and politely asking why this wasn't pointed out to you as it isn't a new porblem. If they say "sold as seen mate" then it does become a bit trickier. Is this a main dealer of just a "normal" one ?

If the latter its more of a challenge and as you say probably not worth it.[/quote]
after talking to a mate he also suggested the dye idea as well has a valeter and said if the generalk things dont work nothing will so try and use the dye to cover it up though ide shove some seat covers on i reckon
catch
[quote name='topgazza' post='46928' date='Oct 22 2009, 01:14 PM']I have made some comments on the "sold as seen". I won't repeat them but it does have some legal clout...as opposed to none. However, if it is not stated on the invoice, just the sales doc then you have something to go on. Worth making the call though and politely asking why this wasn't pointed out to you as it isn't a new porblem. If they say "sold as seen mate" then it does become a bit trickier. Is this a main dealer of just a "normal" one ?

If the latter its more of a challenge and as you say probably not worth it.[/quote]

Hi Topgazza,

I bought it from a Ford Main Dealer [url="http://www.dews.co.uk/new-ford/"]http://www.dews.co.uk/new-ford/[/url] and I must admit I feel dupped. In that if I did not notice it when I was inspecting the vehicle, it must have been "camoflarged" so to speak. So considering they did that, they will have to follow through by saying they did no such thing.

Now we are off to Turkey tomorrow for a week, but I may just give them a ring before I go, and see what they say.

Thanks for the advice

Artscot 79,

seat covers are not an option because the seats contain airbags, besides I would prefer the dye option. The back seats are fine.
catch
Topgazza, I did as you suggested, gave them a ring spoke to the sales manager Trevor. Like I said, he said they would not attempt a camoflarge trick.

I told him I give cars a good visual going over before I buy them, paying particulare attention to bodywork and the interior. And I told him I did not attempt to knock the price they were asking for the Focus. Because although it was Franchised Dealer book price, it appeared as good as mint in my eyes. And I would not consider it mint if it had a worn or stained interior. I reminded him he tried to get me down from my asking price for my Volvo S40 by saying it was not quite mint. Because he noticed some ever so slight over spray in a wheel arch, obviously an accident repair prior to my ownership. And that if I was aware of the problem with the Focus front seats, I would have just thrown it back at him by stating neither was the Focus he was trying to sell me.

Anyway short story is, he wants me to take it over, but said he cannot promise anything.....a that's a 1.5 hour round trip, anyway I'll see what they have to say.
topgazza
Good luck with that. Its worth a go. obviously I can't see the seat but my sons just looks like someone has been sitting in it in shorts and seat has affected the seat. I do think that its a design problem with the seat material as it is too much of a coincidence. The drivers seat always gets the most use.

I don't think they would camouflage it either but a main dealer doing a "sold as seen" is slightly unusual I would have thought. Adding "sold as seen" after you've done the deal is obviously wrong though I suspect it would your word against theirs. Its possible...just for arguments sake, that you missed it but they should have pointed out any defects, obvious or not. And those defects should have been stated on the order form. They can't just rely on you spotting anything, especially as it is so "obvious" so to speak.

But I'm sure a rational conversation on the subject would get you a result. Staying polite but firm usually does it of course. But you know that. Hopefully they will sort it out for free, maybe offer a contribution to the seat cost replacement, or some money off.

Enjoy your holiday by the way. Heres some useful info. That confirms that sold as seen is not allowed as such. However the first one is from my local councils legal advice website targeted at car dealers. Its not all good news as you will see when you read it as a visible defect is considered a mitigation . Although "sold as seen " is not legal.

[u]"Question:[/u]I sold a car yesterday to a consumer for 500. At such a low price, I told him it was 'sold as seen'. He accepted this. Now, he's complained because the exhaust has fallen off, and he sys the clutch is going. I've told him that he agreed it was sold as seen and he hasn't any comeback.

[u]Answer[/u]: 'Sold as seen' in this context is a meaningless statement. You can only apply this reasonably to the way the car looks, or something that can be easily seen on a visual inspection, perhaps scratched or dented bodywork for example. However, it is not reasonable to expect a faulty exhaust or clutch to be picked up on the basis of a visual examination, and the consumer is probably entitled to complain. This soon into the contract, the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) would most likely allow him to reject the car and have a full refund.

Using the term 'sold as seen' in these circumstances may also be a criminal offence under the Consumer Transactions (Restrictions on Statements) Order, as it would be seen as an attempt to restrict a consumer's legal rights. If you want to use any disclaimers, either in contracts or in signs on the garage premises, it is best to seek advice from Trading Standards or your company solicitor first. "



"The dealer cannot contract out of the Sale of Goods Act 1979. There is an implied warranty in the act that the dealer has good title to sell the goods, that the goods should be free from minor defects, be fit for the purpose intended, and has various other implied terms." or

"Under the Consumer Transactions (Restrictions on Statements) Order 1976 it's a criminal offence for a motor trader to use a statement such as 'sold as seen':
[url="http://www.hants.gov.uk/regulatory/tradingstan"]http://www.hants.gov.uk/regulatory/tradingstan[/url] dards/motortrader.html

The statement made by the dealer who sold you the car is therefore automatically void.

There is no obligation upon any dealer to provide a 'warranty' (in the sense that the word is usually used with reference to car sales) with the sale of any vehicle (even if it was a brand new Lamborghini). A warranty is a 'gift' from the retailer (or manufacturer). However, you still retain your basic contractual rights (which Stu Dent refers to) in respect of the purchase.

For further advice, contact your local Trading Standards office:
[url="http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/search/dbas"]http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/search/dbas[/url] e/searchlocal.cfm "


and this

"If the fault is specifically drawn to the attention of the buyer, or the buyer has inspected the car, knows the fault is there, but buys it anyway, he has no claim on the seller for that fault. Otherwise, the buyer has a right to reject the car or demand it is repaired at the seller's expense - be it forecourt, trade-in, or even at auction. "

These were all pulled from various legal advice web sites so they are educated information and it at least confrims that the dealer has to sort it out. Trading Standards is a good place to start if you get any aggro. Laws for dealers are specific and they all come under the sale of goods act so sold as seen from a trader is null and void. reading more it does seem that this can only be reasonably applied in terms of cosmetics...like the seat...but it is a grey area and doesn't appear on the invoice which was produced AFTER you paid deposit and then picked car up so it could be argued it happened in between. Silly I know but its an argument that has some merit. If its not going well then drop in the sold as seen as being invalid under the sale of goods act and is illegal to be used by a trader. Smiling as you say it


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