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tdci stevie
Ongoing problem ive got here sorry bout all the posts..
2004 2.0TDCi 103bhp 60,000miles.
full service 2,000 miles ago.
auxilary tensioner pulley and auxillary belt changed 400 miles ago.
bottle of wynns injector cleaner E.C.U reset and changed to shell diesel 200 miles ago.....!
EGR cleaned and MAF checked all nice and clean.
Have put it on a diagnostic hand held no DTC's present nor pending.
Problem is when on idle the engine hunts around and below the 750 r.p.m, when i have lights, wipers and blowers on it gets worse?
only happens on idle, runs lovely when driving plenty of power, drives really smooth.
Its only on idle this happens and if the Idle spped is sitting on 800 r.p.m when cold its good no problems.........?
Please and thankyou in advance to any one who can help or suggest the answer to my cars hunting idle problems.......?
chris bowman
[quote name='tdci stevie' post='47879' date='Nov 1 2009, 07:50 PM']Ongoing problem ive got here sorry bout all the posts..
2004 2.0TDCi 103bhp 60,000miles.
full service 2,000 miles ago.
auxilary tensioner pulley and auxillary belt changed 400 miles ago.
bottle of wynns injector cleaner E.C.U reset and changed to shell diesel 200 miles ago.....!
EGR cleaned and MAF checked all nice and clean.
Have put it on a diagnostic hand held no DTC's present nor pending.
Problem is when on idle the engine hunts around and below the 750 r.p.m, when i have lights, wipers and blowers on it gets worse?
only happens on idle, runs lovely when driving plenty of power, drives really smooth.
Its only on idle this happens and if the Idle spped is sitting on 800 r.p.m when cold its good no problems.........?
Please and thankyou in advance to any one who can help or suggest the answer to my cars hunting idle problems.......?[/quote]

check battery and alternator. could simply be that lights wipers etc are drawing to much juice and either the battery isnt too good or the charging circuit isnt supplying enough juice to cover these accesories. is the alternator light staying on or perhaps even glowing dimly?
tdci stevie
Battery is ok, no lights showing not even faintly...?
Since using shell diesel has improved the hunting (DOESNT HAPPEN ALL THE TIME AS BEFORE) but not got rid of hunting 100%
It idles smoothly at 800 rpm or just below 800 rpm (say 775rpm etc)
BUT when it drops it drops it goes as low as 716rpm-750rpm as recorded on live data test.! Thats when it makes the engine hunt :unsure:
Could this be an E.G.R problem but not showing a D.T.C up...?
chris bowman
[quote name='tdci stevie' post='48813' date='Nov 10 2009, 10:53 AM']Battery is ok, no lights showing not even faintly...?
Since using shell diesel has improved the hunting (DOESNT HAPPEN ALL THE TIME AS BEFORE) but not got rid of hunting 100%
It idles smoothly at 800 rpm or just below 800 rpm (say 775rpm etc)
BUT when it drops it drops it goes as low as 716rpm-750rpm as recorded on live data test.! Thats when it makes the engine hunt :unsure:
Could this be an E.G.R problem but not showing a D.T.C up...?[/quote]

have same model same year and same mileage though mine has chain rather than timing belt. ihad stutter at 2000 revs but no probs with idle.
i cleaned the egr and that cured the problem. if ure egr is near the front of the engine on the left it will take less than an hour to clean yourself and put back on. well worth a try and possible it will cure ure problem. shell far excedes the euro standard for fuel whereas all the others only just achieve it. it is the best by far and if u have to use anything else add a tank treatment additive such as forte. this will help ensure clogging in areas such as the egr does not happen.
tdci stevie
Mine is also Timing Chain, its the auxliary alternator belt & tensioner ive changed.
Will look into this EGR... have cleaned it back in July this year when i purchased it maybe i didnt do a good job? or maybe its all the supermarket fuel ive used since july have covered about 5000 miles since...? :unsure:
chris bowman
[quote name='tdci stevie' post='48918' date='Nov 11 2009, 08:47 AM']Mine is also Timing Chain, its the auxliary alternator belt & tensioner ive changed.
Will look into this EGR... have cleaned it back in July this year when i purchased it maybe i didnt do a good job? or maybe its all the supermarket fuel ive used since july have covered about 5000 miles since...? :unsure:[/quote]

clean that egr till it shines inside!
the manifold it bolts onto is also quite easy to take off and clean.
click cluck
Why bother about this low ( 750 ) idle - If everything fine at 800 - idle at 800!!? - mine idles at 800 ( 2l tdci 130 ) but is rough even then - smooths out once it gets going.
artscot79
[quote name='click cluck' date='09 March 2010 - 08:52 AM' timestamp='1268124145' post='69870']
Why bother about this low ( 750 ) idle - If everything fine at 800 - idle at 800!!? - mine idles at 800 ( 2l tdci 130 ) but is rough even then - smooths out once it gets going.
[/quote]


the heated screens front and rear are what are called high drain circuits they use a lot of juice withthe car idling these switches are provided with only the current from the battery so when you idle it gives the feeling its hunting its not though its a normal situation when you accelerate the alternator kicks back in and all the electrics are running as they should be simply put at idle the alternator is turning at it lowest speed giving the minimum output when you accelerate the alternator turmns faster to the higher output.

simply if it only does it at idle stoppingf at lights then waht you have is normal the fords are low revving engines many cars run at a higher idle speed 900rpm to compensate for this effect fords dont so its more noticeable than on another car. ive test driven many fords and they are all the same the ford engines particularly zetec were not great at idle speed and low revs hence why ford used dampers and hydraulic mounts to try and hide it
tdci stevie
Yeah sounds about right.
At lights normally ok, it when im idling in trffic for say more than a minute or 2 then it happens... soon as pull away its fine.
I thought it may be E.G.R related as to sitting idling a while.
Just ford for you then, cheers mate.
artscot79
[quote name='tdci stevie' date='10 March 2010 - 09:42 AM' timestamp='1268213530' post='70186']
Yeah sounds about right.
At lights normally ok, it when im idling in trffic for say more than a minute or 2 then it happens... soon as pull away its fine.
I thought it may be E.G.R related as to sitting idling a while.
Just ford for you then, cheers mate.
[/quote]


yeah its a ford thing mate just down to the low idle on fords all cars do it but there idle speed is higher to even it out so you dont notice you get used to it
chris bowman
i dont think any 16 valve engine diesel or petrol likes sitting in traffic on idle anyway.
artscot79
[quote name='chris bowman' date='11 March 2010 - 08:01 AM' timestamp='1268293906' post='70465']
i dont think any 16 valve engine diesel or petrol likes sitting in traffic on idle anyway.
[/quote]


no they dont isnt an issue with 8 valve units but 16v units dont like it nor does it help ford set the idle so low for emission purposes
tdci stevie
Had another inspection of the EGR yestertday and while cleaning it i noticed the black hose/pipe had a split in it so taped it up put all back, and when i was tighting the inlet manifold to EGR 2 bolts down one of them snapped, so off to fords today to see if can get a replacement bolt.
If this split was the cause of my hunting will post as soon as the bolt on and test driven.
chris bowman
if this is the big hose it will cause warm air to get to the turbo which affects the efficiency of diesel burning. u get black smoke when u put ure foot down which is unburnt diesel.
artscot79
[quote name='chris bowman' date='15 March 2010 - 04:02 PM' timestamp='1268668363' post='71568']
if this is the big hose it will cause warm air to get to the turbo which affects the efficiency of diesel burning. u get black smoke when u put ure foot down which is unburnt diesel.
[/quote]


trust me youll replace the whole engine and never change the hunting its a design characteristic of the zetec engine which is why on the newer models etc the idle speed was increased to 850rpm to flatten the effect out ive seen people replace idle control emidssion pipes egr valve pcv valve maf air filter throttl;e body coil pack leadfs plugs etc etc etc yet every car ive ever driven at work thats a ford zetec has the exact same charecteristic some better/worse than others
tdci stevie
After repairing split to air inlet hose (before EGR and Inlet) the hunting has come back.......? 750rpm and below (as low as 738rpm at times)
Was running better with split in the hose....?
Or is this a co-incidence...?
Any further ides would be appreciated.....?
When the split was in the hose idle was 800-850rpm smooth as heaven...?
Now its back to the 725-750rpm..... Arrrgh...
Annoying and have to apply little more throttle to pull away.
Many Thanks in advance
TDCi 2.0 130bhp 60k
artscot79
[quote name='tdci stevie' date='18 March 2010 - 06:19 PM' timestamp='1268935799' post='72313']
After repairing split to air inlet hose (before EGR and Inlet) the hunting has come back.......? 750rpm and below (as low as 738rpm at times)
Was running better with split in the hose....?
Or is this a co-incidence...?
Any further ides would be appreciated.....?
When the split was in the hose idle was 800-850rpm smooth as heaven...?
Now its back to the 725-750rpm..... Arrrgh...
Annoying and have to apply little more throttle to pull away.
Many Thanks in advance
TDCi 2.0 130bhp 60k
[/quote]


if the idle speed is the same as the focus the idle speed of the car is 750+/-50 rpm so idling at that speed is correct the idle speed is controlled via the ecu its the ecu that determines the speed based on various sensors the reason it was higher is due to the fact the split was letting un,etered air into the engine i hate to say this but if you can find ourt the correct idle speed you may find that what youre getting is normal the zetec is a low idling car mate and wont run at 850/900 rpm like most my 1.8 petrol zetec focus idles anywhere from 700-750 rpm mate and its the same on every ford ive tried
artscot79
well it looks like youre idle may indeed be right i found this My ST24 seems to have a low idle when warm - its 600 - 650 rpm, its a perfect idle (not lumpy etc) just seems a bit low considering the handbook says it should be around [b][u]725ish.[/u][/b] also this from mondeo madness Bare in mind that all 16 valve engines tend to have a rougher idle than 8 valve equivalents. Also the EEC unit on the Mondeo's values low emissions over good running so even on a perfect car, there will be some unevenness of idle as the computer hunts for the lowest emissions and occasionally goes too far and has to increase the revs to compensate and a golf [font="Arial"][size="2"]The Multipoint engine in the Golf has been made more protective to the environment by keeping the
idle speed very low (600-700 rpm). Therefore the idle speed is more noticeable in comparison to the
last model.
[/size][/font]

alsio found this in reference to the correct idle speed on a diesel mondeo ...the car would hunt slighly before stabilizing at 750RPM .

basically all the fords are designed to be low emission cars to create this the idle speed is deliberately low as this burns less fuel keeping the emissions low it is not fixable as the ecu is designed and set up to mauintain these idle speeds the downside is the ecu will constantly be looking for the lowest possible emissions which is what people describe as hunting
tdci stevie
My car is - TDCi (diesel) 2.0 DURATORQ 130 bhp 6 speed box, can i blank the EGR off on these engines,
artscot79
[quote name='tdci stevie' date='18 March 2010 - 07:45 PM' timestamp='1268940944' post='72330']
My car is - TDCi (diesel) 2.0 DURATORQ 130 bhp 6 speed box, can i blank the EGR off on these engines,
[/quote]


you can but as i said the ecu controls the idle so blanking it off will make no difference the ecu idle is set at 750+/- 50 rpm depending on conditions in short theres nothing you can do that will change this
chris bowman
mine seems to behave better on idle when its colder, like during the winter we have just had. no its starting to get warmer it does it sometimes on a cold start for a bit. i put it down to just being the way it is.
artscot79
[quote name='chris bowman' date='19 March 2010 - 10:09 AM' timestamp='1268992776' post='72421']
mine seems to behave better on idle when its colder, like during the winter we have just had. no its starting to get warmer it does it sometimes on a cold start for a bit. i put it down to just being the way it is.
[/quote]


you are indeed correct chris thats the way it is mate ive seen people spend hundreds replacing bits to fix something that isnt even faulty or needing fixed basic homework will tell you thats the way these cars and many others are designed now low emissions on idle is the main aim so low revs at idle is common nowadays many vw 600-700rpm the mondeo in petrol or diesel form is 725-750rpm
chris bowman
i just thought diesel engines used to be extremely reliable because of the lack of reliance on electrics years ago. Now to get better performance out of them we have at least as much electronics controlling the running as any petrol car, which like all electrics tend to play up from time to time and of course it dont like getting wet!
tdci stevie
Yes when the engine is cold it runs smoothly at 800 rpm when it warms it then drops to just over 750 rpm which is still fine... then you stop at lights or somewhere and there it goes drops to nearly 700 rpm....
Wots puzzled me is that it was idling better with the split in the main inlet hose...?
Any one done the blank off EGr mod..?
corbz9
[quote name='tdci stevie' date='01 November 2009 - 06:50 PM' timestamp='1257100812' post='47879']
Ongoing problem ive got here sorry bout all the posts..
2004 2.0TDCi 103bhp 60,000miles.
full service 2,000 miles ago.
auxilary tensioner pulley and auxillary belt changed 400 miles ago.
bottle of wynns injector cleaner E.C.U reset and changed to shell diesel 200 miles ago.....!
EGR cleaned and MAF checked all nice and clean.
Have put it on a diagnostic hand held no DTC's present nor pending.
Problem is when on idle the engine hunts around and below the 750 r.p.m, when i have lights, wipers and blowers on it gets worse?
only happens on idle, runs lovely when driving plenty of power, drives really smooth.
Its only on idle this happens and if the Idle spped is sitting on 800 r.p.m when cold its good no problems.........?
Please and thankyou in advance to any one who can help or suggest the answer to my cars hunting idle problems.......?
[/quote]
My advise get shut the 103bhp engines are crap and wunt pull you outa bed on a morning :) go for the beefier 130bhp zetec s or even better the 150 st.
tdci stevie
[quote name='corbz9' date='23 March 2010 - 11:28 AM' timestamp='1269343087' post='73407']
My advise get shut the 103bhp engines are crap and wunt pull you outa bed on a morning :) go for the beefier 130bhp zetec s or even better the 150 st.
[/quote]
Sorry my spelling mistake is a 130 Bhp Ghia 2.0 96w TDCi
artscot79
[quote name='tdci stevie' date='23 March 2010 - 01:23 PM' timestamp='1269350000' post='73419']
Sorry my spelling mistake is a 130 Bhp Ghia 2.0 96w TDCi
[/quote]


the reason the idle drops to 700rpm is that that is how ford designed it to give out low emissions when idling therefore when the ecu senses that you are standing still the ecu hunts for the lowest possible rpm to reduce emissions the system can detect you slowing down from all the sensors then whern you stoip it reduces rpm accordingly the longer you sit there the more it will try to reduce the emissions ie lower the rpm

its not uncommon in fact the majority of cars out now do exactly the same its all about emissions which manufacturers rate higher now than driveability they say that the lumpiness and hunting as you call it is worth it to reduce the emissions, they have to get it within a certain criteria nowadays its not hunting really basically the ecu sensors and idle control are all working together to get the rpm as low as possible since an engine never runs smoothly ie the air doesnt take a smooth path to the engine it varies the hunting you get is when the air is varying and the ecu has to keep making constant calculations to reduce the emissions through the rpm so it will basically bounce up and down as the air varies the split meant that there was unfiltered air that wasnt being read by any sensors getting into the engine therefore the ecu couldnt get the revs to drop low as it doesnt know where the air is coming from none of its sensors are registering it effectively it was infecting the system and as we know unfiltered air isnt good for any engine.

theres debate as to wether the egr blank off causes any damage or not oin the vws it was common to do it yet many reverted back to the originaol set up after running issues and on the vw it would set off the emission light so every mot it had to be put back to standard.blanking off the egr will not adjust the hunting feeling you get there will be no unmetered air getting into the system so the rpm will do what it was designed to do with the ecu and sensors and look for the lowest emissions


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