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Rough Idle And Lpg Problem


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#1 andy_1984

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 08:26 PM

Thanks for taking the time to read this post.

i have just bought a 2002 ford focus lx estate, ex police car with vialle autogas systems (lpg) conversion with 117k miles on the clock from my boss.

while he had the car its always had a strange problem i cant seem to figure out how to resolve as ill explain and the garage he took it to basicly told him to write it off and claim the insurance......after spending a grands worth of work with them and for them to tell him in the end it was a faulty piston of which im not so sure it is (dodgy garage) its a sweet ride and prety certain its been remaped as well as suspension upgrade.

so on to the problem. when running on petrol it has a rough idle a sort of sputtering or flapping like slowly blowing through a straw in to water but sounds much much deeper in sound and can be heard from around the air filter box (not actually inside the box). whilst this is happening the head lights, cabin light and instrument lights flicker slightly in sync with the sound. also the heater blowers will slow down then speed up again (not in sync with the sound though) and one doesnt blow at all.

from what i have gathered this could be the egr valve so i searched for the egr valve but could not find it but did find something plugged up with a little round black thing that resembles the shape of where the egr valve might be (not sure of exact location couldnt find pics online of my engine) plus the lpg conversion makes it hard to get any deeper in to the car.

also when running on petrol and idling, sometimes the revs will dip bellow 1k then back up to 1k within 2 secs, this happens randomly.

now on to the lpg, the lpg system is liquid injection, no vaporizor.

when you press the button to switch to lpg whilst the engine is running the system goes in to a standby mode then when you rev it switches to lpg standby (a sort of secondery standby untill you rev again or try to move it fully enables.

when you try to move the car the revs drop steadily, loose power and then either stalls or switches back to petrol again.

hope someone can help me out a little here

Regards

- Andy

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#2 andy_1984

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 09:10 PM

after reading something on focus fanatics im sure im also missing my maf, on this model i just want to make sure....... it does connect from the air cleaner outlet to the air cleaner housing cover right ?

oh and also the resinator.......

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#3 artscot79

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 09:14 PM

after reading something on focus fanatics im sure im also missing my maf, on this model i just want to make sure....... it does connect from the air cleaner outlet to the air cleaner housing cover right ?

oh and also the resinator.......

Posted Image



you need an l;pg specialist mate ive no idea how it works but many things could have been removed for the conversion no idea why they removed the resinator and casnt understand why they would take the maf off but you should have both

#4 andy_1984

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 09:23 PM

heresd a pic of my engine oh and in the other pic, should thast be connected to something i cant find anywhere it might go........ im thinking it could have been something to do with police computer or what ever, doesnt look standard to me, but then again i could be wrong.

by the way just to let you know, the lpg wasnt installed by the dodgy garage they mearly ripped him off trying to service it, lpg was installed by qualified garage

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#5 Slugsy

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 07:38 AM

in relation the the rough idle going by what you've described with the noise in the air box it could be a cat on its way to blocking up! Also the idle drop when running on petrol could be something to do with a particular vacuum pipe it had weakened on the bend of the pipe and was collapsing when on idle...although sorry to not be much help i cant remember what one it is as your engine bay us different to my old one!

As for the LPG its a very specific thing and i'd get it checked...a mate had many a problems with his and it turned out to be injectors constantly going down

#6 stef123

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 08:27 AM

ford and lpg have never been a great thing.

Ive heard of the zetec engines suffering from burnt or sticking valves, could be a cause of bad idle?

as for the maf sensor, not all the focus' had them.

#7 andy_1984

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 07:35 PM

good news, got the lpg working, took a volt meter to the power connection to the lpg pump and it came apart in my hand, pushed back in and is now working perfectly, you would never know it was running on lpg apart from the fact that ive done 50 miles and its used 0 petrol.

the only noticable difference is the power output from the engine but to be honest on a rating of 1 to 5 (5 being normal power output) the lpg feels like 4.5 and actually is a bit nippier in 2nd & 3rd when in the 3k revs region.

still got a prob with the rough idle someone who heard it suggested it may be the idle control valve.

still trying to find out what that plug is for in pic 2

#8 artscot79

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 09:05 PM

good news, got the lpg working, took a volt meter to the power connection to the lpg pump and it came apart in my hand, pushed back in and is now working perfectly, you would never know it was running on lpg apart from the fact that ive done 50 miles and its used 0 petrol.

the only noticable difference is the power output from the engine but to be honest on a rating of 1 to 5 (5 being normal power output) the lpg feels like 4.5 and actually is a bit nippier in 2nd & 3rd when in the 3k revs region.

still got a prob with the rough idle someone who heard it suggested it may be the idle control valve.

still trying to find out what that plug is for in pic 2



may be a diagnostic plug for the lpg it doesnt look familiar idle control valve is a good place to start and check the emission hose hasnt collapsed i beleive from youre pics its at the front somewhere

#9 andy_1984

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 02:43 PM

sorry for the late response and thanks for everyones input but im back again to try and get this resolved.

been looking all over the engine bay for the egr valve and emission hose and just cant find them....... i think the egr has been removed just like the maf, i did locate the idle air control valve but getting to that is a right pain in the !Removed!, i would need to remove the lpg pump as it sits right in front of it which im quite scared to do as im sure you can imagine.

i also tried a tip from artscot by running a wire from the multiplug on the alternator to the battery which never solved the issue.


my engine bays a mess trying to locate anything is a nightmare, do you reckon thats the way my engine came from the factory its like spaghetti junction in there!

#10 artscot79

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 05:02 PM

sorry for the late response and thanks for everyones input but im back again to try and get this resolved.

been looking all over the engine bay for the egr valve and emission hose and just cant find them....... i think the egr has been removed just like the maf, i did locate the idle air control valve but getting to that is a right pain in the !Removed!, i would need to remove the lpg pump as it sits right in front of it which im quite scared to do as im sure you can imagine.

i also tried a tip from artscot by running a wire from the multiplug on the alternator to the battery which never solved the issue.


my engine bays a mess trying to locate anything is a nightmare, do you reckon thats the way my engine came from the factory its like spaghetti junction in there!


it wont have been like that the lpg was added by a company or by the police mechanics themselves and involves a lot of wiring unfortunately from what ive read the only way to get it checked is from an lpg fitter though ive read the foci does not like lpg conversions

#11 focusestatebifuel

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 10:53 AM

Hi,

I've got a 1.8 2000 focus estate running on factory fitted lpg (liquid injection) and its been brilliant. Bought with 100k miles, now 150k and just started misfiring on lpg. I'm almost certain its fuel, maybe the LPG pump, I think its in the middle of the donut tank. I'll try the pump connections like andy.

QUESTION - Also there may be a gas line filter somewhere. Anyone know where it is located ?

Finally, I've got ideas on fitting a traction control brake valve off a scrap car. Anyone ever done this. Does the computer need resetting do you reckon ? Then raise the suspension with longer springs and some proper snow tyres.

richardstow@onetel.com

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