Clutch Gone At 12,000 Miles??!!

[Trev69]

I'm a newbie on this site so Hello everyone!!

Just a query about Ford warranties. My Mother bought a Focus CC2 Diesel new in March 09 and it now has 12000 miles on the clock. She mainly uses it to do a 70 mile motorway round trip . Recently the clutch failed and she took it in to a local Ford dealer who has told her the clutch is burnt out and the flywheel is damaged. They told her that this is due to her driving style(which they have never seen) and is general wear and tear. (She has owned Fords all her life and never had a problem in the past on cars with over 70000 miles on).

I for one believe a clutch should last a lot longer than this, what do you think she should do ? The car is in the Ford dealer now stripped and awaiting her further instructions. Any advice would be appreciated!!

[artscot79]

I'm a newbie on this site so Hello everyone!!

Just a query about Ford warranties. My Mother bought a Focus CC2 Diesel new in March 09 and it now has 12000 miles on the clock. She mainly uses it to do a 70 mile motorway round trip . Recently the clutch failed and she took it in to a local Ford dealer who has told her the clutch is burnt out and the flywheel is damaged. They told her that this is due to her driving style(which they have never seen) and is general wear and tear. (She has owned Fords all her life and never had a problem in the past on cars with over 70000 miles on).

I for one believe a clutch should last a lot longer than this, what do you think she should do ? The car is in the Ford dealer now stripped and awaiting her further instructions. Any advice would be appreciated!!

if the clutch is actually burnt out then they are indeed correc t its called riing the clutch driving with the clutch still slightly pressed and does indeed burn the clutch out not to be rude but as youll see from many older people drivinbg they tend to rev the heck out the car and ride the clutch a lot this would indeed damage the flywheel they can tell its her driving style by the damage to the clutch it only burns when its constantly engaged looks like she may well have topay for this ask to see the clutch youreself if its burnt youll clearly see the signs and it smells.

youre mother will need to change her style of driving she clearly didnt do it in the past but has clearly started now wether thats down to the way she drives or the unfimiliarity with the diesel i cant really say

[Trev69]

if the clutch is actually burnt out then they are indeed correc t its called riing the clutch driving with the clutch still slightly pressed and does indeed burn the clutch out not to be rude but as youll see from many older people drivinbg they tend to rev the heck out the car and ride the clutch a lot this would indeed damage the flywheel they can tell its her driving style by the damage to the clutch it only burns when its constantly engaged looks like she may well have topay for this ask to see the clutch youreself if its burnt youll clearly see the signs and it smells.

youre mother will need to change her style of driving she clearly didnt do it in the past but has clearly started now wether thats down to the way she drives or the unfimiliarity with the diesel i cant really say

Thanks for the reply,

I will go to the dealers in the morning and have a look at the clutch. I take on your comment about elderly drivers and I've seen people doing this, however, she doesn't slip the clutch excessively or use too many revs on pulling away. Like I say, she mainly does motorway miles where the clutch would be fully engaged and not succeptable to wear. I'd have thought id would have had to have seen some pretty severe abuse to wear out in 12000 miles. I'd have thought as a gesture of goodwill, Ford would have footed the bill. I've been advised to contact Citizens advice and the Office of Fair trading so I'll do that in the morning as well. The plot thickens.....

[david raptor]

what tipe of fly wheel is it

[catch]

Thanks for the reply,

I will go to the dealers in the morning and have a look at the clutch. I take on your comment about elderly drivers and I've seen people doing this, however, she doesn't slip the clutch excessively or use too many revs on pulling away. Like I say, she mainly does motorway miles where the clutch would be fully engaged and not succeptable to wear. I'd have thought id would have had to have seen some pretty severe abuse to wear out in 12000 miles. I'd have thought as a gesture of goodwill, Ford would have footed the bill. I've been advised to contact Citizens advice and the Office of Fair trading so I'll do that in the morning as well. The plot thickens.....

I hear what artscot is saying and for the most part agree with what he is saying. But if your mother has not had a history of burning clutches out, why would her driving style suddenly change ! Ask her in all honesty does she drive whilst having her left foot "hovering" over the clutch pedal. Look I was talking to my mechanic he has an old lady customer that has burnt three clutches out. But to burnt out at 12K your mother must sound like a Jet fighter taking off as she pulls away. Well does she ?

The jury is out on this one as far as I'm concerned, I know all the signs point to it being driving stlye, But her driving history would suggest different. Clutches can and do fail for engineering reason, or being badly set up.

As you say clutches should last a lot longer, I've had two Fords a Mondeo and a Focus [not this one] that where both 10 years old when the original clutches went. One owned by us for 9 years the other 4 years both failed circa 80K. And the wife whilst OK is not up there with the best on the clutch, because she is a bit of a timid driver. 12K as you say would need an idiot driving it to fail at that mileage. the more I think about it the more I'm inclined to believe your mother is an innocent party.

[mintalkin]

this could end up an expensive bill, clutch and dmf £550 +fitting and thats not ford prices.also try ford customer services - 08458411111

[bottletree]

If Ford are taking that attitude i would definitely take this further. 12,000 miles to burn a clutch out and most of the driving is done on the motorway??? I'm sorry,but something is certainly not right here. You will have to pay ford dealers prices to fix the clutch and flywheel :o

Speak to someone in a higher position at Ford. Write a few emails make a few calls.I would not accept this from Ford and i suggest your poor Mum does not either.

[Trev69]

I hear what artscot is saying and for the most part agree with what he is saying. But if your mother has not had a history of burning clutches out, why would her driving style suddenly change ! Ask her in all honesty does she drive whilst having her left foot "hovering" over the clutch pedal. Look I was talking to my mechanic he has an old lady customer that has burnt three clutches out. But to burnt out at 12K your mother must sound like a Jet fighter taking off as she pulls away. Well does she ?

The jury is out on this one as far as I'm concerned, I know all the signs point to it being driving stlye, But her driving history would suggest different. Clutches can and do fail for engineering reason, or being badly set up.

As you say clutches should last a lot longer, I've had two Fords a Mondeo and a Focus [not this one] that where both 10 years old when the original clutches went. One owned by us for 9 years the other 4 years both failed circa 80K. And the wife whilst OK is not up there with the best on the clutch, because she is a bit of a timid driver. 12K as you say would need an idiot driving it to fail at that mileage. the more I think about it the more I'm inclined to believe your mother is an innocent party.

Lol.... I'll be totally honest, she's not the best driver in the world, but hey, who's Mother is!! She drives carefully, but properly. Her last car was a Mazda 323 Sport, she put 45000 miles on it - on the same clutch. The one before that was a Ford Orion, she put 60,000 on that - on the same clutch. The one before that, a Ford Escort - 50,000 miles on the same clutch. I don't believe her driving style has changed at all since she got this Focus 16 months ago. They promise me at the Ford dealership that it's a burnt out clutch through bad use of it. I don't know how I'm going to convince them otherwise, but I'm prepared to give it a !Removed! good go. I bet if it was a Male under 50 with the same problem, the clutch would be changed no questions asked. As it's a 65 year old woman, they take advantage.

Anyway, thanks for the reply. It's appreciated.

[Lenny]

All purely assumptions and various ways a clutch can be burned out but the Mazda 323 sport would have a heavy duty clutch as standard being a sport model would be more designed for rough gear change and abuse building up speed in the slip road to join the traffic,or clutch+accelerates simultaneously, particularly in traffic, (if the motorway becomes a carpark in peak times) or changing up ie.1st to 2nd to 5th or opposite cutting gears to slow down Ouch!! my mechanic says ‘’you could put in a brand new clutch on a Saturday morning and burn it out by 11pm Saturday night, all depends on the driver’(Mikko Hirvonen)

[Trev69]

All purely assumptions and various ways a clutch can be burned out but the Mazda 323 sport would have a heavy duty clutch as standard being a sport model would be more designed for rough gear change and abuse building up speed in the slip road to join the traffic,or clutch+accelerates simultaneously, particularly in traffic, (if the motorway becomes a carpark in peak times) or changing up ie.1st to 2nd to 5th or opposite cutting gears to slow down Ouch!! my mechanic says ‘’you could put in a brand new clutch on a Saturday morning and burn it out by 11pm Saturday night, all depends on the driver’(Mikko Hirvonen)

Point taken... so a Focus 2.0 TurboDiesel with a lot more torque (the stuff that would damage a clutch)than a Mazda 2.0 Sport will have a weaker clutch than the aforesaid Mazda?? I think not. I bet the Focus would be quicker in 4th or 5th gear joining a slip road than the Mazda(thus not needing to change gear/use the clutch). As you say, merely assumptions. Motorway traffic is NEVER "a carpark" between Sedgefield and Hebburn and is always freeflowing especially out of peak times when a retired person would be using it.

ps. You don't work for Ford Customer Relations do you?

[catch]

Point taken... so a Focus 2.0 TurboDiesel with a lot more torque (the stuff that would damage a clutch)than a Mazda 2.0 Sport will have a weaker clutch than the aforesaid Mazda?? I think not. I bet the Focus would be quicker in 4th or 5th gear joining a slip road than the Mazda(thus not needing to change gear/use the clutch). As you say, merely assumptions. Motorway traffic is NEVER "a carpark" between Sedgefield and Hebburn and is always freeflowing especially out of peak times when a retired person would be using it.

ps. You don't work for Ford Customer Relations do you?

Yes if the argument is she is riding the clutch to much at gear changes.Then if she is now driving a 2.0 TDCi Ford unit, she will not be inclined to do as much gear shifting and clutch depressing as these diesel units pull like trains. I had that engine in a Volvo S40 2.0D SE, and that is what I liked about it. Pull out in fifth gear put your foot down and away you go. Gone was the need to go down the box and then back up again. Again I'll repeat she would have to drive like a complete idiot to shaft a clutch in 12K. Listening to what you say in regard to her driving history, it proves it is not the case.

Your mother sounds like she drives like my wife :)

Whilst some people never quite learn how to use a clutch properly, no matter how many years they drive. To suggest however that you can some how manage to "unlearn" how to use a clutch properly is absolute !Removed!. And your quite right, they see an old biddy stood before them with a burnt out clutch ........case proven........ my !Removed!.

[hawker]

This sounds like this is your mother's first car that has a clutch with a dual mass flywheel. Although these greatly reduce vibration/judder etc. they are more prone to premature failure.

[Trev69]

Just had a quote from the dealer £1089. They said because she's been a customer of theirs for more than 35 years, they'll give her 10% off. I will NEVER buy another Ford out of principal . That's just taking the pi$$ now.

My Mother has just remembered that sometimes when she changed gear, the clutch pedal didn't return to it's original position and she had to put her foot under the pedal to lift it back up. Why she never mentioned this before now is beyond me, but she's just remembered when I was asking her again whether she drove with her foot on the pedal. This has probably been the cause of the clutch failure, not her driving style, but the fact that the clutch has never been properly disengaging. She's going to let them know at the garage, but unless they find some kind of evidence (which they might I suppose) I don't hold much hope!!

[hawker]

Terrible prices, as per usual from Ford (Eg. See my DPF thread!!!)

Definitely report this to Ford. This is looking an extremely likely candidate for the problem. If you get no joy from them, then get this problem looked at independently from Fords (as Ford may not want to admit the problem with a possible £1000+ about to be thrown their way)

[mintalkin]

if you can get to the car, take a look at the clutch teturn spring on the clutch pedal, its a common fault on the focus for them to break or become disloged which would cause the pedal to not return fully and could be a barganing point if it is broke.

[catch]

Terrible prices, as per usual from Ford (Eg. See my DPF thread!!!)

Definitely report this to Ford. This is looking an extremely likely candidate for the problem. If you get no joy from them, then get this problem looked at independently from Fords (as Ford may not want to admit the problem with a possible £1000+ about to be thrown their way)

spot on mate.

Yes she should have reported it to the garage. But there again it should have been spotted by Fords at pre inspection, or when it was in for servicing. They can argue all they want, but even if the fault developed after it's last service, there is no getting away from the fact it was a mechanical failure that led to the failure of the clutch and DMF, so as such it's a warranty issue. I think they should do the right thing and stand the cost......If it was me I would not even consider any other option of settling the issue.

[Trev69]

spot on mate.

Yes she should have reported it to the garage. But there again it should have been spotted by Fords at pre inspection, or when it was in for servicing. They can argue all they want, but even if the fault developed after it's last service, there is no getting away from the fact it was a mechanical failure that led to the failure of the clutch and DMF, so as such it's a warranty issue. I think they should do the right thing and stand the cost......If it was me I would not even consider any other option of settling the issue.

Ah well, looks like she's gonna have to contact someone higher up in Ford. Our local dealer rang tonight and said they'd sent pics of the damaged parts to their "specialists" and they had said there was nothing they could do. They are now saying that because she hadn't reported the sticking pedal earlier, it's her fault. (Even though she'd had it booked in where she bought the car to look at the clutch before it finally gave up!). So errr, it's not her driving style any more....mmmm. No apology there then. Thought not.

Anyway, I've told her to ring Ford head office and speak to someone higher and explain no uncertain terms that she will not be paying for the repairs as she is not at fault. She paid a lot of money to buy this car on retiring, thinking it would be OK for a good 3 years as you would. If they don't do something about it, I'm going to go down to the dealer and tell them to put the car back together and I'll get it fixed elsewhere. I'll contact Local and National Press as well as Watchdog and Top Gear (they love stories like this). The results of this will cost Ford a damn site more than a thousand pounds. I'll also email people at work (I work for one of the biggest Pharmaceutical companies in the World) informing them what has happened, they can make their own minds up. I've already made mine up.

[artscot79]

Ah well, looks like she's gonna have to contact someone higher up in Ford. Our local dealer rang tonight and said they'd sent pics of the damaged parts to their "specialists" and they had said there was nothing they could do. They are now saying that because she hadn't reported the sticking pedal earlier, it's her fault. (Even though she'd had it booked in where she bought the car to look at the clutch before it finally gave up!). So errr, it's not her driving style any more....mmmm. No apology there then. Thought not.

Anyway, I've told her to ring Ford head office and speak to someone higher and explain no uncertain terms that she will not be paying for the repairs as she is not at fault. She paid a lot of money to buy this car on retiring, thinking it would be OK for a good 3 years as you would. If they don't do something about it, I'm going to go down to the dealer and tell them to put the car back together and I'll get it fixed elsewhere. I'll contact Local and National Press as well as Watchdog and Top Gear (they love stories like this). The results of this will cost Ford a damn site more than a thousand pounds. I'll also email people at work (I work for one of the biggest Pharmaceutical companies in the World) informing them what has happened, they can make their own minds up. I've already made mine up.

as was said with the given info it was most likely her driving style now we know it was a mechanical issue however im afraid you wont get far the reason for this is simple trading standards will tell you that if the spring was sticking and it was known then you should not have driven the car buy driving the car you caused the damage the dealer would have had to arrange a collection for the car to fix the fault so technically it is her fault be carefull who you threaten and what you do as you can find youreself in a lot of hot water if you look at the facts.

1.they will state that the car was booked in to look at the fault therefore the fault was known and yet the car was continually driven as trading standards will say you or youre mother continued to drifve a car with a known defect.

2.the specialists word will always be ragarded than youre opinion hes a specialist and therefore what he says goes if he states that the clutch was burned out due to a mechanical fault then thats what they will listen to.

the evidence isnt in youre favour the car has been proved to have been driven despite knowing about the fault this continual driving has caused the clutch to burn out not fords fault im afraid trust me worked with trading standards

[catch]

1.they will state that the car was booked in to look at the fault therefore the fault was known and yet the car was continually driven as trading standards will say you or youre mother continued to drifve a car with a known defect.

I would always advise people to contact Trading Standards, but I would never presume to know what Trading Standards stance would be on the issue.

2.the specialists word will always be ragarded than youre opinion hes a specialist and therefore what he says goes if he states that the clutch was burned out due to a mechanical fault then thats what they will listen to.

I don't think anybody would argue with that statement. But all we know is this " Our local dealer rang tonight and said they'd sent pics of the damaged parts to their "specialists" and they had said there was nothing they could do" All that implies is "they" I presume the garage is not prepared to put the car right. What is at dispute here is liability for the damage.

the evidence isnt in youre favour the car has been proved to have been driven despite knowing about the fault this continual driving has caused the clutch to burn out not fords fault im afraid trust me worked with trading standards

Well I would argue that as the old lady concerned is not a qualified engineer. And as such would not be expected to know about the workings of a clutch plate and DMF. Or the potential damage that could be done due to a faulty return spring on the clutch pedal. She obviously in her engineering ignorance thought though it may need adjusting it was drivable. Indeed this fault may not have been as pronounce as it obviously later became, but was still contributing to the eventual failure of the clutch.

And the garage once being made aware of the problem, well they had not told her to immediately stop driving the car, but to bring it in to be looked at. Yet you seem to expect a lay person with no background in engineering should know better, when obviously the people who service and repair said vehicles obviously did not.

Fact is a component obviously not fit for purpose in this instance, caused the complete failure of the clutch plate and DMF, it's a warranty issue. No one is disputing the fact that the garage do not wish to treat it as such. But that in it's self does not mean they are right.

[artscot79]

I would always advise people to contact Trading Standards, but I would never presume to know what Trading Standards stance would be on the issue.

I don't think anybody would argue with that statement. But all we know is this " Our local dealer rang tonight and said they'd sent pics of the damaged parts to their "specialists" and they had said there was nothing they could do" All that implies is "they" I presume the garage is not prepared to put the car right. What is at dispute here is liability for the damage.

Well I would argue that as the old lady concerned is not a qualified engineer. And as such would not be expected to know about the workings of a clutch plate and DMF. Or the potential damage that could be done due to a faulty return spring on the clutch pedal. She obviously in her engineering ignorance thought though it may need adjusting it was drivable. Indeed this fault may not have been as pronounce as it obviously later became, but was still contributing to the eventual failure of the clutch.

And the garage once being made aware of the problem, well they had not told her to immediately stop driving the car, but to bring it in to be looked at. Yet you seem to expect a lay person with no background in engineering should know better, when obviously the people who service and repair said vehicles obviously did not.

Fact is a component obviously not fit for purpose in this instance, caused the complete failure of the clutch plate and DMF, it's a warranty issue. No one is disputing the fact that the garage do not wish to treat it as such. But that in it's self does not mean they are right.

i agree with what yioure saying mate but be prepared for a long fight you never know they may give up ide take whats written here and put it to them true she isnt a mechanic or an engineer and a faulty spring caused the damage so make a fuss in the sales room

[Trev69]

Ah well, we did try. What a waste of time and effort. Ford are simply not interested. I hope noone else has a problem like this cos it's a pain in the butt. Ford customer services are a total waste of space. You get through to some clown on the switchboard who can't put you through to anyone higher. Ever phoning Head office gets you promptly re-directed back to customer services.

My Mam's having to pay the bill. She's going to sell the car once fixed in case this happens again. She'll buy a differemt make this time. I'm going to get rid of my 2009 Focus as well in case it happens to me. I too will try a better manufacturer.

I will also make a point of telling everyone I know what has happened. There's a lad I work with just cancelled his order for a new Mondeo and is going to buy a year old Audi instead on hearing Fords reaction. Hopefully many more will follow.

Thanks to everyone for their good advice!!

Trev.