Tdci Owners Check Your Oil Levels Now

[catch]

welcome to the forum,

now regards

It had an oil change about a month ago and now this.

all I will say is this.................. it's quite common for mechanics to overfill fluids when renewing same.................see this thread

Hence it is always recommended that you check same on reciept of the vehicle.

Yes I know you pay a Dealer circa £70/80 an hour to do the job properly. But the reality as always in life is .................taking the cynical view, you will be proved right nine times out of ten .

[Junzo]

oil checked on a level surface and it's near max. Also I reset the warning lights and it's not come back on again...yet...so...problem solved .... ha. Guess we'll see.

[johncherokee]

Hi, I've just joined the forum, having just bought a Mondeo TDCi 2002. How can you tell if my car has a Diesel Particulate Filter?

[Flashblade]

Hi. Only just found this thread (and so joinedthe forum!) due to the problems I've had recently. The story starts last September when I had to have a new Turbo fitted (broke as starved of lubrication - I had let the oil get to sludgy :( ). Then in December I had a fuel filter failure. Just mentioning these things as not sure if related to the current issue:

Last Saturday I had a warning light come on during a short journey and car went into limp home mode. AA diags said the DPF was blocked and to take it to a garage as they could regenerate it. The AA man also noted oil level was very high. As it was changed twice around the turbo failure period I presumed it had just been over filled. Anyway, local garage forced a regeneration a few days ago and cleared the warning light in doing so. Why the DPF didn't clear automatically I have no idea as I regularly do longer motorway journeys....I presume there is a fair change it will happen again if the auto-process hasn't been working.

The garage also took some oil out (2 litres so back to Max as it were) and said they would be very surprised if they overfilled it last time (beusing them for years and they are very reliable and trustworthy). They did mention it could be leaking diesel, nut unlikely, and made no relation to the DPF issue - which I have now read about! Two days later, I have checked the oiil and it has risen again - 5mm or so above the max line. What I do not know as I write this is if they took oil out before they did the regeneration, as reading above, logic says the diluted oil level will increase due to the regeneration process.

Maybe this is of help to people - any observations or suggestions welcomed! I think the next step is to lower the oil amount to max again and see if it rises again, now it is running "normally" again. I read above that using supermarket fuel could "irritate" this condition (which I use). Any views on that? Should I stick to a better known brand - any suggestions?

Thanks for your time! By the way, I have 75k on this car and owned for 4 years with very few issues!

Oh, and forgot to mention. Pre new Turbo, I was getting 55/65 mpg motorway consumption. Since new turbo, that came down to under 55 and now - since DPF problem - I am getting 45 mpg on same motorway journey! Painful!

[Spanner 680]

Hello chaps just found this thread and found it most interesting, I'm a mobile tech and have recently been given a mondeo 2.0 Tdci 2009 with this engine oil/fuel problem.

My initial thoughts were to test diesel pump as this is a common problem amongst higher mileage engines, this was found to be ok. The vehicle is doing around 21 mls to the gallon and filling the sump rapidly,I have found myself consulting the web and forums more and more in recent years as the problems i'm facing are the more peculiar problems but ones that i feel are becoming more common. I would like to thank everyone who has had an input to this thread as it's information is invaluable and i'm now a lot clearer as far as the job in hand is concerned.I'm now going to e-mail the chap who was looking to take mazda to court and see what his outcome was (If he is still on his mazda campaign).

My next quest is to find a fix does anyone know if Ford have a software update to this effect??.

[Flashblade]

Hi Newbie. Since I posted the above (yours), further research showed that the options were to replace the DPF (faulty and causing the oil to fill with diesel), get it cleaned chemically, or remove the filter material in the DPF and put it back on. I plumped for the later with a local specialist garage. They re-programmed the ECU so that it thinks no DPF fitted also. Fantastic - no problems since, fuel consumption back to normal, accelerates quicker, engine is quieter - just a complete success!

[FOCA]

Hi Newbie. Since I posted the above (yours), further research showed that the options were to replace the DPF (faulty and causing the oil to fill with diesel), get it cleaned chemically, or remove the filter material in the DPF and put it back on. I plumped for the later with a local specialist garage. They re-programmed the ECU so that it thinks no DPF fitted also. Fantastic - no problems since, fuel consumption back to normal, accelerates quicker, engine is quieter - just a complete success!

And no more DPF related problems - hurrah!

[3putgrb]

Hi Newbie. Since I posted the above (yours), further research showed that the options were to replace the DPF (faulty and causing the oil to fill with diesel), get it cleaned chemically, or remove the filter material in the DPF and put it back on. I plumped for the later with a local specialist garage. They re-programmed the ECU so that it thinks no DPF fitted also. Fantastic - no problems since, fuel consumption back to normal, accelerates quicker, engine is quieter - just a complete success!

Hi Flashblade, been following this thread with interest and pleased you've found a solution.

Just wondered what effect removing the dpf will have on emissions at the MOT?

[FOCA]

Hi Flashblade, been following this thread with interest and pleased you've found a solution.

Just wondered what effect removing the dpf will have on emissions at the MOT?

The DPF gathers the pariculates that are emitted from the engine and either burns more fuel to burn this off or dumps (some of) the particulates all at once when accelerating hard (often in built up areas etc, near schools etc)

With the DPF removed, the car spreads the particulates around more evenly, and burns less fuel because DPF regen is no longer required, and the car has a better MPG, so overall may have less impact on the enviroment

The overall enviromental impact of the car during its lifetime must be looked at including the energy/ materials used in manufacturing the DPF, CAT & EGR, the extra weight of these items, the (negative) effect on MPG, and the energy/ immisions used to produce all the extra fuel etc

At the momment a DPF is not required for a UK MOT test, only the particulates are measured, as above, removing the DPF may actually help the MOT test, especially if the DPF is old, contaminated or faulty

Same goes for catalytic converters, and EGR systems - (not nessesary for the current UK MOT test as only the particulates are measured) - the EML (engine management light) must not come on after the engine is started (this was an "advisory" but will/ has become a "compulsory" in the test)

This was originally going to be brought in in Jan 2012, but was delayed - i don't know the exact timescale or what is/ isnt applicable and what is an advisory or compulsory

In the future the DPF may be required, but as long as it looks like one is fitted there is no way the tester can tell if it is a functioning DPF or it has been "hollowed out"/ is empty

[3putgrb]

Thanks for that, very useful information!

I have avoided DPF diesels and run a 2.0 tdci Mondeo on a 54 plate which is prooving to be very reliable (Ooops!)

[rick45]

As the thread header suggests, there is concern that Diesel Particulate Filter fitted models have a problem that the regeneration process could be contaminating the engine oil. So it is either complete TOSH you must have the correct viscosity oil, and it all apparently goes out of the window. Either that, or because of the dilution of the oil with diesel, your going to suffer engine wear that was not foreseen when the development of DPF engined cars went into mass production. WHICH IS IT?

So it would be interesting to see if TDCi forum owners with DPF equipped cars could report back on this thread regards their engine oil levels.Are they ending up with more oil in their sumps than what they started off at?

Volvo who share engines with Ford are introducing new oil change fill levels and a software update. And better than me repeating second hand, I advise concerned owners visit the Volvo forum thread on the issue, there are some clued up guys over there. It comprises 39 pages of contribution. That's because it is a very active site, having over a thousand viewings and over 250 post on an average day. Suffice to say you will get the gist of the problem, Volvo's tight lipped response, and their on the hoof remedy to over full oil sumps, by reading the first page of the thread.

But just to show an example of the calibre of some of the contributors on the subject, I'll copy post from one contributor.His credentials are as follows

Anyway here are his first two posts in full: Note his comment on a possible dilution rate of 23.7%

I have presented the posts in bold type for ease of reading, but I consider it better to read said posts on the original thread.The Doc content starts on page six

Not only is it causing wear but if it gets too much diesel to oil mix and the level rises too high the engine WILL start to run on it's sump contents ending in a runaway engine that you cannot stop until it blows up requiring a new engine :( , much cheaper to change the oil and filter :) .

[cuke]

Strange how in three and half years of driving around town in my Mk4 2.0l diesel mondeo never did I have a problem with the oil level, even when I interrupted the regeneration. I know that Mazda 6's suffered from this issue but I never did...

[rick45]

Strange how in three and half years of driving around town in my Mk4 2.0l diesel mondeo never did I have a problem with the oil level, even when I interrupted the regeneration. I know that Mazda 6's suffered from this issue but I never did...

Hi,

I am the same with my zafira 1.9 cdti never had this problem, but then again Vauxhall brought out an update so regen starts at a lower speed for town drivers,

Why haven't Ford done this for their cars.

[FOCA]

Hi,

I am the same with my zafira 1.9 cdti never had this problem, but then again Vauxhall brought out an update so regen starts at a lower speed for town drivers,

Why haven't Ford done this for their cars.

Perhaps Ford, as a forward- thinking manufacturer, secretly want DPF equipped Ford owners to have their DPFs removed, thus eliminating the problem completely? :)

[rick45]

Perhaps Ford, as a forward- thinking manufacturer, secretly want DPF equipped Ford owners to have their DPFs removed, thus eliminating the problem completely? :)

Hi,

yes i think you may be right because diesels DON'T need them anyway YET, removing this DPF would solve many running problems on these modern cars.

[catch]

Not only is it causing wear but if it gets too much diesel to oil mix and the level rises too high the engine WILL start to run on it's sump contents ending in a runaway engine that you cannot stop until it blows up requiring a new engine :( , much cheaper to change the oil and filter :) .

Funnily enough I said as much in an earlier post I made on this thread back on 21st May 2013 ;)

So the problem is indeed real and ongoing, and think on never mind

diesel destroying the lubricating properties of the engine oil. In worst

cases, it could lead to self fuelling of the engine.......... a runaway

car. Just think wife's out in the car and that happens!

[catch]

Strange how in three and half years of driving around town in my Mk4 2.0l diesel mondeo never did I have a problem with the oil level, even when I interrupted the regeneration. I know that Mazda 6's suffered from this issue but I never did...

cuke me old muker,

what year was your Mk4 Mondeo? I'm not sure when Ford started fitting the later CDPF [i think it's refered to] being the one that is giving the trouble. I know Volvo being a Ford company at the time started replacing the eloys top up type DPF with the newer problematic ones. back end 2008 approximately. on the 2.0l model engines.

Anyhow, I just popped inside to check my emails and saw there were replyies to this thread I started way back. as it's a to bleeding hot 32C out here in Turkey. Bing weather reckons it will be 25C tomorrow, now thars more like it for me and the Misses.

Another ten days of this ...........but somebody has to do it............ :D

[simlock]

On 9/10/2010 at 4:39 PM, catch said:

apparently it has something to do with ordinary diesel containing around 5 to 7% of biodiesel in it.Theory is during forced regeneration cycle, as against during passive regeneration [engine running hot enough to burn off soot deposits in the DPF]some of the extra diesel squirted in to the engine, gets past the piston rings and ends up diluting the engine oil. At 20% dilution of the lubricating oil, the lubricating values of the oil falls out of the permitted range that the oil in question was evaluated at, as being needed to protect your engine. Opinion has it that the biodiesel component does not burn off completely in the combustion process.

And in a few cases it has been reported that when the sump is overfilled with this dilute oil/fuel mixture it can find it's way into the combustion parts of the engine. Causing it to maintain or increase the speed of the vehicle even with your foot removed from the accelerator.

So in regard to engine wear and possible "self fuelling" this could cost the auto industry millions in compensation claims So no wonder the industry are not admitting there is a problem..............

And in the mean time Volvo has introduced a double whammy solution to the problem

1. is at service under fill with oil, allowing for 0.5lt of diesel to contaminate the lubricating oil, when oil on the dip stick reads MAX, above Max and the dilution is greater.

2. Software upgrade it restrict the amount of extra fuelling during forced regeneration.

So you could end up with a engine prematurely wearing out due to poor lubrication. And DPF's failing to remove the soot and failing............but look on the bright side your MPG should improve slightly

I must state they are saying only certain cars are affected at the moment, some S40' owners amongst others [shared engine with Focus] are being called in for the software fix.

Hi everyone,

I need some advice, if anyone can help, why did i buy a Mondeo? meant to be one of the most reliable car ? ok i have a 2008 2.0 6 speed model only had it a short while, the car has been perfect up until now, i bought the car to travel long distance as thats' what my job entails, anyway i have been using it fine, until i last time i checked the oil, as i was leaving to pick my daughter up from holiday, the time before i checked the oil, it was low and thought better keep an eye on it, this time is it high, and the car does over run and when you take your foot off the throttle, it keeps going for a round a second after you have lifted off, the oil level is about 5 millimeters over the highest mark of full on the dip stick,now and i am quite concerned, i have spoke to ford in whales as this is where i bought the car, but it was from a local trader, they said it maybe injectors or fuel pump? the car did cut out on me only once a few weeks ago but not since, and i did think then perhaps this is the problem, i bough the car just after 1,500 miles of the last full service, can i get nay advice please on what to do? also will removing the cat help with this problem, if that is whats causing the problem, the dealer said its fuel pump or injectors, and that i should take it to fords to be looked at but am reluctant to be stung from them. I did forget to mention that the oil service light is now on too.

[Tdci-Peter]

14 hours ago, simlock said:

also will removing the cat help with this problem, if that is whats causing the problem

Unfortunately, removing the CDPF (Catalytic Diesel Particulate Filter) would not really be possible. It would be an MoT fail, the engine would come up with errors, and probably reduced power mode.

It would be best to get the oil changed ASAP. I would run some diagnostics on the car (DIY if possible, as Ford will charge up to £100 just to look), to see if there was a problem with the DPF regen system.

I am not sure if the 08 Mondy has a CDPF, or the older Eolys additive system. Regens should not normally add so much fuel it gets into the oil. It could have run out of additive, or a sensor could have failed, or the (C)DPF could be faulty / clogged.

If it was injectors or pump, I think you would notice that in normal driving. An active regen only happens for a few minutes every few hundred miles, when working properly. That is when the extra fuel is put into the cylinders, to heat up the DPF.