Check Engine Light Again

[jig]

I have a MY56 tdci focus and have had problems since buying it.I have owned it since August of last year.I looked the car over and everything seemed in order also checked it had full service history,which it does from Ford main dealers.On doing a bit of research and reading about Dpfs,I looked under the car for the dpf as suggested by a forum member.As I didnt see the seperate dpf and cat I thought I did;nt have a dpf as there was no mention of dual cat/dpfs.It wasn't until I took the car to my local garage on having a check engine light on,who told me to take it to a diesel specialist that I found out it was dpf and the codes coming up where relating to it needing a regeneration.The car went into limp home mode and a strange whirring sound could be heard.I was told to take it to Fords as they can only do a forced regen.After fords inspected it, i was told that the tubo bearings had gone and a new turbo was needed.this might of explained the whirring sound.The two garage i took it to previously thought it only needed a regen,could running it on a blocked or partly blocked dpf cause turbo failure?

After having the car back with a new turbo and associated parts fitted it ran well for two weeks until now when I noticed the gradual loss of power and now check engine light again.I took it to the diesel specialist again and he pulled the codes:P0100,P0483,P2141,P1622,P0102,P0047,P2458,

exactly the same errors as when I took it before.I have booked it into Fords on Monday and they say that even an inspection cost of £118 will be liable if it is nothing to do with the work they had done.

I had queried them before getting the car back last time wether a regen was done or the work was following the Ford bulletin on replacing a turbo,all they said was everthing that needed doing hasbeen done without any detail.Who would like to bet that the problem the car comes back with is nothing to dom with the last fault and just giving them an open cheque to charge what they want?

The car by the way has 85000 miles on the clock also the oil that was changed went dark brown quickly after I got it back.Any help or any thoughts would be much apprieciated?

[catch]

Forgive me but I'm struggling to understand parts of your post. But I can glean you went into limp home mode and error codes pointed to a dealer induced "Forced Regeneration" being required.

You took it it a Ford main dealer, and they said you turbo needed replacing, which they did. What I'm not sure of is did they do a Forced Regeneration as well or not, which is it?

You say it has a full dealer history, now I know with Volvo's [a Ford owned company that was] any dealer can access the cars history. Meaning if Fords can do the same you should be able to tell if the DPF was changed as per Ford Dealer schedule, on the sixth year annual service or 75K miles, which ever comes first.

Now if I had to put money on it, the car was sold on without the DPF being replaced, and part of replacing the DPF involves refilling the Eloys additive reservoir. As it should be done every three years or every 37.5k. Hence the proper regeneration cycles have not been taking place. But like I say, I'm sure you can find out if that was the case by accessing the cars service history.

So we are back to the 64,000 dollar question, did a force regen take place when you took it in to the garage.And if it did was the Eloys reservoir check and topped up as necessary. If not and the DPF is blocked again, that is most probably why. Of course the garage could say yes it was refilled, but it is now apparent the DPF is beyond salvaging because it is past it's replacement date as per the service schedule, but it was worth a try doing a forced regen last time it was in. Where a professional outfit would have said, look if your planning on keeping it, forget the cost of a forced regen, better you spend your brass on a new DPF.

Anyway what ever, your itemised invoice should have detailed what work was done and what fluids if any were used. Eloys top ups alone can cost anywhere between £100 to £150 depending where you go.

I reckon the £118 is what they charge for the car to be hooked up to the diagnostics computer.

Hope that helps

[dp1987]

Simple answer DONT BUY A DIESEL ;) . Every person i know with a diesel has shelled out one way or another with dpf's of buggered turbo's. So in the long run your not even saving any pennies on the MPG because u have to Shell out for other stuff on it. They also sound horrible and are sluggish taking off. On the other hand the petrol focus's are one of the most reliable cars around full stop.

[jig]

Thanks for your quick response Catch,my post is a bit confusing but I was running between garages being told it was this and another saying it was that.The outcome was only Ford could do a forced regen,so I took it there and they told me it was a blown turbo which was £1100 to fix and then see if all was ok on the diagnostics.There is no mention of a regen on the invoice so I presume it wasn't done. Like yourself I thought the dpf was blocked or partly blocked hence throwing up a check engine light, it being cleared and running alright again for a while then throwing another check engine light after driving another few hundred miles.I phoned up the garage where the servicing was done in Scotland,they told me the dpf was not changed at 75k as they only do it if it needs changing.They also said they had never known a dpf to go wrong.I thought it was part of the service and had to be replaced to stamp the service book.

So chances are it needs a new dpf,Fords are going to want stupid money,is it worth doing as the majority of driving i do is in town?The check engine light is off now but it still feels down on performance

[catch]

Simple answer DONT BUY A DIESEL ;) . Every person i know with a diesel has shelled out one way or another with dpf's of buggered turbo's. So in the long run your not even saving any pennies on the MPG because u have to shell out for other stuff on it. They also sound horrible and are sluggish taking off. On the other hand the petrol focus's are one of the most reliable cars around full stop.

Whilst I agree with the above, especially in the second hand market.

It's only the simple answer, if the question is asked before the car is bought. But the reality is in most cases peeps having only run petrol models, are not aware of the problems you can have with DPF's and lets not forget the good old Dual Mass Fly wheel.

I'll be honest I didn't when I bought my Volvo S40 2.0D SE, but on finding out and considering the mileage I do. Well it was a no brainer, no way was I likely to save money. I only needed to have to fork out for a replacement DPF and a DMF if I was unlucky to be quids out for years and years. So after nine months I moved it on with 63k on the clock, it was on a 54 plate. The 72K [DPF replacement] service was known as the £1000 service on the Volvo forum.

Now my petrol Focus service set me back £72 in October. OK not a major service that could set me back another £20 on top :D

No the OP is where he is now, he is the owner and as such was asking for advice.

[catch]

I phoned up the garage where the servicing was done in Scotland,they told me the dpf was not changed at 75k as they only do it if it needs changing.

And how do they know when that is? When it gives out miles from home, that's why Ford have it down for changing at 75K.

They also said they had never known a dpf to go wrong.

Pollacks

I thought it was part of the service and had to be replaced to stamp the service book.

Well reality goes something like this...right Mr Smith 75K service it is then, oh by the way Ford states the DPF should be replaced, should we do it. What's one of them for, and how much does it cost....HOW MUCH... no way forget the DPF........fortnight later it's in Auto Trader

So chances are it needs a new dpf,Fords are going to want stupid money,is it worth doing as the majority of driving i do is in town?The check engine light is off now but it still feels down on performance

Well that's the question, now when you take into consideration how much it has depreciated since you bought it and adding in the £1000 loss on dealer PX price to purchase price and the £1100 on the new turbo.Or will be cheaper to swallow the cheaper DPF replacement price, because it should be good for another six years, before you need to move it on. But only you can make that decision, as you will have to live with any consequences of that decision. There's an old saying, better the devil you know, than the devil you don't.

[pugboy]

I thought only the 1.6 and 2.0 had a DPF?....

Either way you have just forked out loads of money to Ford to fix it and they obviously have not cured it so its back over to them.

[jig]

Just thought I would add an update to whats happening.I picked up the car this morning all running well.Fords told me that the only code which required attention was the airmass meter.This had been cleaned out and put back on diagnostics and all was fine,the next stage was a long trip to see if the codes come up again.I asked them about the DPF renewal at 75k and they told me the same as the other dealer.It does not get renewed at any stage of the service,it only gets topped up with EOLYS fluid if needed.My service book doesn't list all work to be carried out on each service but I do have each service check sheet for all the milage and there is no mention of dpf renewal at 75K only fluid top up.Why Ford etis is saying this needs doing as extended period maintenance I don't know.

If anyone has had problems with dpfs maybe they can shed some light on this.Fords told me they have issues with the bigger engine 2.0l etc doing stop start journeys,mine is a 1.6 and that an occasional hard drive for half to one hour at high revs should be ok

[catch]

They are bullsh@ting you

read this thread by Hawker Dpf Is Knackered 2006 1.6 TDCi

And it ended thus, same poster Goodbye Focus, Hello Mazda 6 but to be honest he had every thing go wrong with that car.

[jig]

I emailed support at Ford etis and asked about the dpf renewal they have as part of the extended period maintenance at 75000 miles,they replied that that couldn't supply any further information and to contact a Ford dealer or Ford Customer Relations Centre. I already know what two Ford dealers have told me as in previous posts,so contacted Customer Relations who after getting on to the technical department confirmed it does want replacing at 75k. So there you have it then,total confusion

[catch]

No it's not total "confusion" it is there in black and white in the extended maintenance section.

It's like I said total "bullsh@t" by two Ford Main dealers.

Truth of the matter is half the peeps who buy DPF equipped cars, would not do so if they were aware of the type of driving that is needed to ensure they will be by and large trouble free. Come on there are thousands of motors out there with DPF's fitted that are not experiencing problems. If you do the mileage, there are big savings to be made in fuel costs. But if you do a lot of short journeys, and low mileage your unlikely to benefit from the fuel savings, because it will all be eaten up in garage bills.

Honest John says This and when asked again This What is the problem with people ?

[catch]

In the first link I provided, the guy says he does 7,000 miles a year, and estimated he would save £1,700 a year!!!!

Well how about some real world figures, I now run a 1.6 petrol Focus, but briefly for 9 months I was the proud owner of a S40 2.0D SE, full leather, heated seats, traction control...all the toys. Now when I had the Volvo, if I had run it for a full twelve months I would have covered 6,000 miles.

Now I'm running the 1.6 petrol, same type of mileage and journeys, the annual MPG difference is 6.70 mpg. Yes that's right, in the Focus I'm getting 6.70 mpg to the gallon less than I did in the Volvo.

But if I extend the mileage to 7,000 and do the maths it's a saving of £166 in fuel running the diesel . Road Tax same, insurance £49 less on Focus. So that brings the savings down to £117. But hang on factor in £140 per year cost over a six year DPF life cycle, not forgetting the 35K Eloys top up. And surprise sunrise, on those comparisons alone its a £23 saving a year running the Focus. Meaning the £1,700 saving buffer was not there in case any of the other components were to fail on the diesel variant. Plus dirt cheap servicing for the Focus.

Got to qualify the above as not a like for like comparison , 1.6 petrol against a 2.0 turbo diesel. But you get the picture.