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Ford Focus 1.6Tdci (56) - Loss Of Power


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#1 Satanspants

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 11:47 AM

Hello - Could I have some help/advice please?

I have a 56 Ford Focus 1.6TDCi which I bought 18 months ago with 62K on the clock, I had a Ford main dealer service done at 75K (inc. additive for fuel tank) now I am up to 83K (I regularly drive round the M25 to Slough) the only thing I have not replaced is the DPF, looking on Google the advice seems to be unless you have an issue this is not necessary.

Yesterday (& Friday) I was driving locally when the car acted like it had stalled, all the warning lights came on the dash and the car lost almost all power (limp mode) when I restarted the car later it was fine, I took it to a local (friendly) garage who put a code reader on the car, but there was not any codes to download. They advised me to take it to Fords if it does it again, however my local Ford main dealer charge 86.00+VAT just to check the codes - which I know there are not any.

Has anyone encountered this and knows what it good be? - I don't want to risk the M25 if my car suddenly does the same thing again, in rush hour it would be a guaranteed pile up!

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#2 Satanspants

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 11:17 AM

Sorry to bump this - but I really could do with some advice, I have looked through this forum and also done some research via Google, I suspect it is a mechanical rather than electronic issue (because of the lack of codes) but there does seem to a more than a few things that could cause this. :(

#3 jeebowhite

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 12:29 PM

OK, first of all the codes you can see on the trip computer are only half the story, you may well need a diag to see other codes built up in the memory.

Secondly, whichever fools on the internet say that you dont need to replace the DPF until theres a fault, on this particular model and year, are idiots :) This is meant to be replaced at 75000 Miles as a matter of course. The fact that the car goes into limp home would suggest that the car has detected a fault, potentially too much back pressure being caused by a blocked DPF.

The best thing you can do is take your car out in third gear down the motorway, get it high up the rev range and leave it there, you may notice some smoke, this is normal, you are trying to do a forced regen, however you will still need to get the car into the garage.

I would suggest...

Do a basic service replace oil, air and fuel filters, check the quality of the oil, may be worth replacing that too sounds irrelevant, but a filter can cause blockages if its in a poor condition, and can cause flow problems, possibly throwing your car into limp home...

... Check all fluids, make sure they appear the right colour, if anything appears dirty that probably wont help, baring in mind any one sensor could set the car into limp home mode it could be anything not necessarily related to the engine directly.

... Definately throw your car into third and leave it there on a motorway, that way you will at least get the exhaust up to temperature, that should help to burn off and get loose some of the cack in the exhaust. - for safety reasons - dont do this on the M25 if you can avoid it, if it is pressure related, you could end up in limp home mode again (worst case scenario)

Try this if no one else can suggest anything else, try it then let us know how it goes.

#4 Satanspants

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 02:06 PM

Thanks for the advice - I will do as you say and get it to do a forced regen.

I will also give it a service as well, as you say best to cover all bases, check fluids etc.

As for the DPF I will have to try and find somewhere in Essex other than Ford's to replace it, I cannot justify the £1000 plus bill they charge for this, I know this part of owning a diesel Focus but it still hurts!

If you or someone else knows or could recommend a garage that could a perform a DPF replacement I would appreciate a pointer...

Thanks again...

#5 bottletree

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 03:58 PM

Satanspants(lol great name by the way), I was recently thinking of changing my 1.6 tdci because of the DPF. A friend suggested i bite the bullet and pay the cost of the new DPF and i will have no more major costs hopefully. I have heard this particular garage cleans out DPF'S and other garages can get rid altogether. There are no 2 ways about this I'm afraid. Get Ford to replace it. Get it done with a guarantee and with the correct computer software.I know it sounds horrendous the costs, but Ford made a massive boo boo with this thing.

#6 jeebowhite

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Posted 29 June 2011 - 04:40 PM

Or, review my thread on removing the DPF, and make your own call as to whether you want to full out get it pulled out by an alternate company :)

Thread located... http://www.fordowner...__1#entry110629

I truely hope that you were caught out by the DPF problem, as I was, as opposed to being made aware of the cost, and being misled by others (i.e. dealers!) lol

Either replace it with Ford, or get it removed by another company. I could have had mine removed, and bypassed for a third of what Ford wanted to replace. In the end I swapped the Focus for a Kia Cee'd petrol. Havent looked back, but I was struggling to decide wether or not to just get the damn thing removed...

... My investigation with the DfT is what threw me slightly away from it...


If nothing else my DPF removal thread makes interesting reading!

#7 Satanspants

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Posted 30 June 2011 - 05:42 PM

Jesus! - Talk about a minefield, I thought I had done my homework on this, out of all the companies mentioned on the DPF Removal thread only one of them still offers the service - seeing as it is technically illegal I dont think I will be doing that..

Seems I might have to do some saving if I cannot find an alternate to the money grabbing Ford dealer option.

Such a shame as this has been the most reliable and all round nicest car I have owned - obviously comes at a price! :(

#8 cuke

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Posted 30 June 2011 - 06:13 PM

Hi, well whether, or whether not, the dpf does need replacing, Ford have made a less of a 'boo boo' with their dpf then other manufacturers. Mazda 6's on failed regens will throw diesel fuel into the sump causing a hydraulic lock with the resulting blown engine. Unfortunantly there is no simple solution for having to have a dpf. You cannot remove it, as suggested elsewhere in this thread, because the new MOT regs coming in 1/12 will mean the car will not pass. We have to have them, whether you like it or not, they remove carcinogens, thus do something positive.
Personally I'd make sure it really is the dpf before replacing it, if it is then I'd have a go at replacing it myself.
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#9 jeebowhite

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Posted 30 June 2011 - 07:07 PM

Cuke, I agree and disagree with you. The emissions tests are based on tighter "tolerances" than they currently are, no one will take the exhaust apart to confirm that the DPF filter is still present/original. However I agree that the carcinogens may be detectable, but I cant see every MOT station in the UK paying to upgrade their hardware to detect the new traces that are required to be... As long as the tuning of the vehicle is done correctly AND can actually keep the emissions to how they are now, then you could technically get away with it... Technically...

On the other hand after all my investigations into the DPF, I did in fact decide against it also, however I have made the decision, when I am to purchase my next car (unlikely to be for a while!) If I get diesel - any minor ounce of maintenance and its going to be the petrol equivelant, I will not be buying another cack DPF filter like Ford offered on these Foci' - the new model - well - time will tell how many posts are present on the forum complaining of the new CDPF.

On a plus note SP, you could technically buy a none Ford DPF and get it fitted yourself, cant guarantee the performance, or any affects it would have with the fluid used, so you would have to do the best you can to get a close match - on the plus side you could still save up to 2/3s of what Ford would charge.

#10 bottletree

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Posted 30 June 2011 - 07:28 PM

Lets hope the price of replacing the DPF in a few years time comes down in price.I think the price at the moment is a disgrace, rip off and a shambles. Disgusted with Ford about this.

#11 cuke

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Posted 30 June 2011 - 08:41 PM

Hi, is not the presence of a dpf physically obvious, thus the new mot legisation will be just a visual one. The problem with the particulates from a diesel engine are that they can pass through brick walls. http://en.wikipedia..../Diesel_exhaust thus should we be removing these filters? As I have previously said, the implemtation that Ford has chosen for the mk4 mondeo is virtually maintenance free whilst the one fitted to the Mk3 Foci appears to be even more sophisticated in it's diagnostic ability, if the dash read outs are to be believed, taken from the manual:

Starting the engine
Message Action
Message indicator
Drive to clean exhaust amber SeeDieselparticulatefilter(DPF) (page 128).
filter check handbook
Exhaust filter full amber SeeDieselparticulatefilter(DPF) (page 128).
service now
Engine malfunction amber SeeDieselparticulatefilter(DPF) (page 128).

Chris

#12 artscot79

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Posted 30 June 2011 - 08:55 PM

Hi, is not the presence of a dpf physically obvious, thus the new mot legisation will be just a visual one. The problem with the particulates from a diesel engine are that they can pass through brick walls. http://en.wikipedia..../Diesel_exhaust thus should we be removing these filters? As I have previously said, the implemtation that Ford has chosen for the mk4 mondeo is virtually maintenance free whilst the one fitted to the Mk3 Foci appears to be even more sophisticated in it's diagnostic ability, if the dash read outs are to be believed, taken from the manual:

Starting the engine
Message Action
Message indicator
Drive to clean exhaust amber SeeDieselparticulatefilter(DPF) (page 128).
filter check handbook
Exhaust filter full amber SeeDieselparticulatefilter(DPF) (page 128).
service now
Engine malfunction amber SeeDieselparticulatefilter(DPF) (page 128).

Chris


mot stations have the software to detect if the dpf is there as part of the test the car will be hot enough to begin regen mode. dpfs are a pain to all there are people with renaults having to disconnect the car battery as the dpf starts regenerating as they get home and switch the car off causing the engine fan to run for up to half an hour ford state in there brochures that newer diesels are not suitable for short trip stop start driving and actually tell you to take a 20 mile trip down the motorway all dpfs are failing long before they should and yes its illegal to remove and the test station gets a printout before the mot of what to check the dpf being one my mate has an mot station

#13 jeebowhite

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 10:18 AM

Learn something new everyday! and I was advised that (and have seen that) the DPF is hidden behind a heat sheild, so without taking it apart, you cannot physically tell by looking at the car that the filter is or is not present, without taking the heatshield off, which is not going to be done by the MOT team.

However some "bodge" repairs of the DPF mean that some drill through the DPF Filter and also the heat shielf - much more obvious!

As for the particulates and brick walls, we are talking about high concentrations of these particulates, driving down the road is not going to kill everyone behind brick walls, I personally am of the opinion that if the 1.8 did not require a DPF, and the 2.0 did not require a DPF, the 1.6 could have done without it as well, thus at the same time, unless they are going to run the VIN through a system to confirm wether or not the VIN did or did not have a DPF at production, and check wether present or not.

I'm certainly not arguing, and agree that the fact its illegal (unbeknown to me at the time I started that investigation!) meant that it seemed a feasible option, I just dont understand why the same diesel fuel will be put through an engine with either 1600,1800 or 2000CC, and in the smaller of those engines it would dispose of more carcinogens than the exact same combustion process in a slightly larger engine where the DPF was optional...

#14 cuke

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 11:29 AM

Hi, I'm not arguing either, just stating we might as well get used to them because, at the moment, they are here to stay. I was assuming, having never actually looked at a filter, there would an obvious sign of the device, like that of the cat. It seems that this is incorrect assumption. Although it does seem that any sign of how the filter is removed is dependant on the method used. If it is done correctly and professionally then there should be no sign of any tampering, either physical, or through the software.
This learning process is what forums are for.... :D
Chris

#15 jeebowhite

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 01:32 PM

Mores the pity the damned items are a nuisance espcially at 1000 a shot!

I did like driving my TDCI focus, but the DPF is the one real bugbare that really caused the final trade in... Aside the fact it was the runt of the litter I still liked it!

I still fail to understand why Ford release three engines, and one is mandatory, one doesnt need it at all, and one was optional... Well Done Ford!

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