Customer Service Confusion

[Dylanblues]

Morning all,

Hope someone may be able to clear something up for me. I bought a 2006 Focus TDCi 1.6 last year with a full service history - mileage at purchase was 95k is now at 105k. Have had the requisite nightmare with DPF, clearly didn't do enough homework here, and, after the car went into limp mode, I have just been advised by an independent garage that the Eloys fluid is empty and will cost me about £250-00 for a complete refill. They also mentioned that it should have been done as part of the 72k service.

So, I dutifully contact the Ford garage where all servicing has been undertaken and they advise me that the additive was not topped up as this is an 'optional component' of the service. Looking at the service schedule this does not seem to be the case. The garage are insistent and have agreed to provide confirmation in writing. Can anyone confirm whether or not this is the case?

The DPF was not been changed either at 72k, can anyone confirm whether this is something that I will HAVE to have done and, if so, whether I'm better off just getting it back on the road with tis 'top up' and getting shot of it. The guy who has the car at the moment thinks the top up should ensure all is OK until the end of the car's life .

Sorry to waffle but any help would be greatly appreciated.

[catch]

Welcome to the forum,

Well the top up is part of the 3 year / 37.5K service which ever comes soonest. And every 3 years / 37.5k thereafter.

Now saying it is part of Fords service schedule, is one thing, but ensuring it was done is another. There is a cost element to the top up being done, on top of the usual servicing requirements, oil, filters and the like. And once being made aware of these additional costs, there is nothing to stop the owner of the car saying, nope leave as is thank you. Then they can decide to move the vehicle on.

As to the cost of getting the eloys additive topped up, it is circa £120/£150, of course if the garage have to do a "forced regeneration" of your DPF to make the car fit for purpose, then there is a cost attached to doing that. But if it's just a top up, look to pay circa £150. [it's called a "top up" but in fact it will be close to empty anyhow, so don't let the garage who quoted you £250 on the grounds of it being empty, pull a fast one] Like I say they may also be quoting for a Forced Regeneration in that price.

As to the DPF lasting the life of the car, not so all Mk2 /Mk2.5 Focus 1.6 TDCi are fitted with the DPF that needs replacing at some point after 75K. If your on 105K your well and truly on borrowed time, in fact if the DPF has not already been Forced Regenerated, you may find, when it is attempted it may fail. So that could be £100/150 wasted that could be better spent going towards replacing the DPF.

The 2.0 ltr TDCI's after 2008 were fitted with the non renewable, none eloys additive, CDP type filter.

Hope above clears a few points up for you. But remember you don't need to go down the Main Dealer route for a DPF replacement, there are other cheaper options. But you will need the ECU reset done by a dealer, after the Eloys Additive has been topped up. So that said, I'd let them do that bit of the job, once you have had the DPF replaced by a "cheaper" independent garage. See here for DPF prices

[Dylanblues]

Catch

That has been incredibly helpful thanks a million; you'd have thought buying from a Lease company would have ensured all work was carried out in full *sigh*. I'm confident that there is a forced regeneration incorporated into that price and trust the guy implicitly, I was just a bit confused as I could see the prices of the fluid for myself online; forced regen would explain the price tag.

Just a couple more things!

Do you know if the DPF needs to be replaced or can it be cleaned out? And, if the ECU has to be reprogrammed by a Ford Dealer any guess on price for that?

It's a good job that money is no object to me.........!

Thanks again.

[catch]

Here to help mate, you know what they say, what comes round goes round.

The reset it just, resetting the eloys additive injection counter in the ECU. The cost is included in the figures I quoted earlier.

As to washing DPF's out, well I've heard of some peeps trying it, but I would not waste your time. Because the DPF for the Focus 1.6 TDCi is a DPF/CAT combo.

Bite the bullet mate, hell likely hood is six/seven years from now you wont even own the car. So you wont have to face replacing the DPF again. And think on, compared to petrol, you'll be saving a fortune in fuel over the years to come.

You've then just to keep your fingers crossed your DMF does not decried to go "walk about"

[jeebowhite]

The DPF technically "can" be cleaned out, I have heard of some people who managed to pressure wash the cack out of it, and then use the filter for a good few thousand miles before it packed up. aside the environmental implications its not really adviseable, but it theoretically can be done. The ECU most likely will require a reset, as once the DPF has been replaced then the car may well need to be told about it, and also get the car out of limp home mode and clear any errors assosciated with it, unfortunately that would come with the diagnostics cost + vat, tends to be around the £60 + VAT mark, but its dealer dependant.

If money truely is no object to you then you can just buy the DPF, or just buy a nice shiny really new Focus, with either CDPF or Petrol :) lol

Unfortunately the DPF is one thing that for messed up on, and unfortunately its as much down to the owner to get it sorted as the dealer, as Catch said, you can always say no thanks and walk away, im surprised that as a previous lease car it was abused so much...

Hope this is of some help :)

[Dylanblues]

'Here to help mate, you know what they say, what comes round goes round.

The reset it just, resetting the eloys additive injection counter in the ECU. The cost is included in the figures I quoted earlier.

As to washing DPF's out, well I've heard of some peeps trying it, but I would not waste your time. Because the DPF for the Focus 1.6 TDCi is a DPF/CAT combo.

Bite the bullet mate, hell likely hood is six/seven years from now you wont even own the car. So you wont have to face replacing the DPF again. And think on, compared to petrol, you'll be saving a fortune in fuel over the years to come.

You've then just to keep your fingers crossed your DMF does not decried to go "walk about"'

Ah OK, so that's all built into the £250-00; I should probably clarify that the top up and regen is to be done by my independent guy who is also able to reprogram the ECU.

I think you're spot on with biting the bullet, I just wish I could get in touch with my garage to let him know; I'm just waiting for the inevitable call from him to tell me it hasn't worked and I'll have an additional £500-00 bill coming my way

I've just googled DMF and broke into a cold sweat :o .......thanks for that

Thanks for all your advice again Catch.

The DPF technically "can" be cleaned out, I have heard of some people who managed to pressure wash the cack out of it, and then use the filter for a good few thousand miles before it packed up. aside the environmental implications its not really adviseable, but it theoretically can be done. The ECU most likely will require a reset, as once the DPF has been replaced then the car may well need to be told about it, and also get the car out of limp home mode and clear any errors assosciated with it, unfortunately that would come with the diagnostics cost + vat, tends to be around the £60 + VAT mark, but its dealer dependant.

Hi Jeebo, for the sake of a few thousand miles it doesn't seem worth it really and, being something of a wooly environmentalist, if cleaning it out will cause a problem in that area it's just another tick in the column to replace.

If money truely is no object to you then you can just buy the DPF, or just buy a nice shiny really new Focus, with either CDPF or Petrol :) lol

Sadly, in reality, I'm just a poor boy....... :P

Thanks for your help with this guys.....you've done your good deeds for the day!

[Dylanblues]

Hello again,

I've just got the bill in for the work doen and it's come out at £370!!

My man at the garage has said that Ford have charged £220-00 plus VAT for the Eloys fluid (they've said it's only available in 5litre cans). Does this sound right to anyone!!!???

[johnH]

sorry i didnt come in sooner on this one...

anyways for that price you could of got the DPF and additive fully removed and the car re-mapped to give same emmisions, possibly even cheaper and you wouldnt have had to worry about the DPF ever again.

people say it is illegal but a discussion on another forum, which included a traffic cop, say there is no way that a garage will check or even discover that it has been removed. it goes on but thats a brief run of it.

as with everything there are people who will say positive and other neg...

[artscot79]

sorry i didnt come in sooner on this one...

anyways for that price you could of got the DPF and additive fully removed and the car re-mapped to give same emmisions, possibly even cheaper and you wouldnt have had to worry about the DPF ever again.

people say it is illegal but a discussion on another forum, which included a traffic cop, say there is no way that a garage will check or even discover that it has been removed. it goes on but thats a brief run of it.

as with everything there are people who will say positive and other neg...

is it worth the risk since vosa regularly set up check points and they can tell the law states Some companies have offered a “guarantee” that when they remove the DPF they will re-calibrate the ECU to ensure that it passes the emissions test for MOT. One specific company has offered a two year guarantee to ensure that this is the case.

If a vehicle is modified and passes the emissions test at a time of MOT, does this class as sufficient coverage to ensure that act 61A has been adhered to? No it does not.

And would the emissions have to meet exactly the standard as it was when it left the factory, or is a case that the vehicle must still pass the emissions, whereby as long as the vehicle does not fail the emissions test, then is this considered legal as per the quoted below? The requirement is that the vehicle must not be modified in a manner which increases its emissions beyond the emissions standard it was required to meet when new.

I wonder this as I know as years go on the vehicles will lose efficiency and emissions will likely change as the vehicle and components age, and I don’t understand how the vehicle must abide to section 61A as it will age and surely will not be as efficient as the date it left the factory? As noted above its modifications that increase emissions that are prohibited. Normal gradual deterioration would be acceptable.

Does this mean that in fact the DPF removal service offered by some companies is in fact an illegal? Yes we believe that it is.

[catch]

OH NO John what have you done....The remove the DPF debate should have it's own thread.....even though it has been done to death many times. If fact better to link to a discussion on the subject, I think Jeeb researched doing that.

All I'll say to Dylan is there are legal implications regards the DVLA and your Insurance being null and void. You quote somebody stating he is a copper, said this or that. I love to see that stand up in a court of law, !Removed! your implying all coppers are intelligent.......well I've news for you, I've come across as many stupid ones as I have intelligent ones. But they survive, because most of their client base is stupid, hence our prisons are full

Back on topic, Dylan you were ripped off, SEE HERERead the post, I had a Volvo with a DPF, Rufe is his posting name over on the Volvo forum, but name is Simon and he is a straight bloke.

Ring the number, ask them for a price on eloys fluid and don't forget to quote the discount code:C3

Ford and Volvo where the same company until recently, they share engines. I know somebody over on the Volvo forum back in 2009 was supplied with the eloys for £60 from Simon.

But considering the deed is done already, ask for the reminder of the eloys from you man, it appears to be worth more than Posh Spices bath water ;)

[artscot79]

OH NO John what have you done....The remove the DPF debate should have it's own thread.....even though it has been done to death many times. If fact better to link to a discussion on the subject, I think Jeeb researched doing that.

All I'll say to Dylan is there are legal implications regards the DVLA and your Insurance being null and void. You quote somebody stating he is a copper, said this or that. I love to see that stand up in a court of law, !Removed! your implying all coppers are intelligent.......well I've news for you, I've come across as many stupid ones as I have intelligent ones. But they survive, because most of their client base is stupid, hence our prisons are full

Back on topic, Dylan you were ripped off, SEE HERERead the post, I had a Volvo with a DPF, Rufe is his posting name over on the Volvo forum, but name is Simon and he is a straight bloke.

Ring the number, ask them for a price on eloys fluid and don't forget to quote the discount code:C3

Ford and Volvo where the same company until recently, they share engines. I know somebody over on the Volvo forum back in 2009 was supplied with the eloys for £60 from Simon.

But considering the deed is done already, ask for the reminder of the eloys from you man, it appears to be worth more than Posh Spices bath water ;)

indeed i agree from what i can gather yep you were overcharged i still think that it should be part of the service and not extra makes no sense that

[johnH]

sorry for opening a whole can of worms and im trying my hardest not to sound a complete bell (ring ring ) here but:

on another forum, aswell as this one, we discussed the removal of the DPF or as the french call it the FAP filter and its legal implications. from what we have gathered and from what we have seen is that consumers here in the mainland and across the lake in ireland have carried this out and under no circumstances met with opposition from the dark forces of the government and other agencies...infact the opposite has been said...even by the techies from said manufacturer dealerships...who highly recommend it

the copper on another hand, is like jee or catch (sorry cant remember which) who stays in contact with said manufacturer on problems etc and know his rights inside and out...really knows his stuff kinda guy. his previous occupation (or so claimed by himself) was a long serving mechy in a UK based independants so you would think he knows what he chirps onna bout mechanically wise etc. but yeah he laughed at the notion of VOSA discovering you have had this done etc, especially if done pro.

on another note, we have a vosa checkpoint every now supported by our police so will even walk in (like hell im taking my car ) and ask if it is something they specifically look for and can discover easily...will post results on other thread.

in the end, if it was me personally, i would remove that DPF faster than you could say. i wonder how many people in the UK have had this done and been caught? ;)

[catch]

sorry for opening a whole can of worms and im trying my hardest not to sound a complete bell (ring ring ) here but:

on another forum,

..........................................................................................................

in the end, if it was me personally, i would remove that DPF faster than you could say. i wonder how many people in the UK have had this done and been caught? ;)

What John meant to say was......... fair do's here are some links to related threads. :P

But I will just say this, I'm not doubting it can be done and is not likely to be found out. But that does not alter the fact of it's illegality. You could end up fending off massive financial liabilities, if your insurance company found out. DVLA finds out [tax evasion] You sell the car on, third party who bought it counters sues, when he is sued by his insurance. What will you say to the wife when you have to sell your house to settle the Barristers bills?

You'll be sat there in your half of a card board box [Wife took the other half in the divorce settlement] thinking to yourself....I brought all this !Removed! on my head, just to save £200 .......FFS [£200 difference between DPF replacement cost minus DPF removal cost...see below]

And the amazing thing is, all these guys who have sweat this debate for hours on end on the interweb. Never sat down to do the maths. Year six you pay an independent to replace the DPF, come year twelve when the next one is due. It's somebody else's problem because the reality is you will have sold said legitimate car on, a couple of years back.