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cheb

Regen Problums

35 posts in this topic

hi i got a ford focus 1.6 tdci

i fill up the additive tank (next to the fuel tank) with the right stuff

took my car to fords to get it regen, but they are tellling me that the tank if empty.

then someone else told me its the wrong additive i put in witch i know is bullshit,

they said they cant regen it as its a sencor, at a cost of 472, and 350 for the addtive

DOES ANYONE KNOW WHERE I CAN GET SENCORS FROM CHEAPER THAN FORD

AS ANYONE HAD THE SAME PROBLUM AS THIS THANKS ROB

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hi i got a ford focus 1.6 tdci

i fill up the additive tank (next to the fuel tank) with the right stuff

took my car to fords to get it regen, but they are tellling me that the tank if empty.

then someone else told me its the wrong additive i put in witch i know is bullshit,

they said they cant regen it as its a sencor, at a cost of 472, and 350 for the addtive

DOES ANYONE KNOW WHERE I CAN GET SENCORS FROM CHEAPER THAN FORD

AS ANYONE HAD THE SAME PROBLUM AS THIS THANKS ROB

sounds to me like they are attempting to !Removed! you, FRF Motors up the road from you in Swansea, it's a Volvo dealers, But Volvo was owned by Ford when your motor was built, they share many parts, and definitely engines, they will defo sell you the additive hundreds cheaper than that. As to the sensor well can you trust the garage you went to, what's it's part number.......I'd go else where for a second opinion.

Look there is a guy over on the Volvo forum goes by the forum moniker of Rufe, but real name is Simon works in their parts department, forum members including myself swear by him, dead helpful wither you buy through him or not, defo give you a price on the additive.

Simons Link

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thanks for the info mate

will give that simon at frf a call and see what he as to say

see if he can shed some light on this

thanks rob

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thanks for the info mate

will give that simon at frf a call and see what he as to say

see if he can shed some light on this

thanks rob

these dpfs are now on watchdog, cars not regenerating as they should dpfs failing early now manufacturers are telling people if you drive short distances buy a petrol lol. the expert said to regen naturally you need to drive at a high rev ie 2500 rpm constantly for 15 mins so dont drive in 5th drive in 4th instead but if you stop or slow down you have to start the regen all over again

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but if you stop or slow down you have to start the regen all over again

Now so there is no misunderstanding in regard to the above quote:

This does not mean to say easing off at a roundabout or because someone pulls out in front of you. No what is meant by that is, if you reach your destination before the regeneration process has concluded, which in all takes about 15 minutes once the exhaust gasses are up to temperature. Same goes for if you end up in slow moving traffic for the duration of the process. You see it's all about the exhaust temperature gasses being high enough to trigger the process, and burn off the soot that has built up in the DPF.

Rule of thumb is, if all you use your car for is knocking about on short cold engine journeys, then buy a petrol engined car. (school run, local supermarket) But if you clock up decent mileage every three hundred miles or so with journey times circa 20 to 30 minutes. Then the car should undertake a "passive regeneration" of the DPF as per normal if and when required.

If you not do such journeys as the norm, then sell the car and get a petrol one, or take it for a burn up the local bypass circa every 300 miles of usage.

To Conclude.

No need to get the jitters about DPF's understanding you have one and what you need to do is all that is required. We had a Volvo S40 2.0D SE with a DPF (same engine as fitted in the 2.0TDCi Focus and Mondeo) It used to go weeks just plodding 1.75 miles through town rush hour traffic on a cold engine in a morning, and the reverse journey in the early evening. Had it nine months and it never ailed a thing, not so much as a burp out of the DPF, because I knew what it required every 300 mile or so.

In the nine months of our ownership it covered 5,368 mile only. 2,560 miles in three trips to Dorset, Scotland and Devon, the other 2,808 miles where split between town driving and trips to towns or shopping centres no more than 15 miles away. So you see you can live with a DPF easily if you know what your doing.

Most people who come a cropper with DPF fitted cars, the one needing a DPF replacement every 75k/ 6 years and additive top ups very 37.5k /3 years. Are the people who buy [in ignorance] 4/5/6 year old cars that have not had the top ups or replacements done, or are due for doing. And the present owner does not want to bear the rip of fees charged by main dealers to undertake such work, so they shut it to the trade and it's moved on to an unsuspecting new owner.

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Now so there is no misunderstanding in regard to the above quote:

This does not mean to say easing off at a roundabout or because someone pulls out in front of you. No what is meant by that is, if you reach your destination before the regeneration process has concluded, which in all takes about 15 minutes once the exhaust gasses are up to temperature. Same goes for if you end up in slow moving traffic for the duration of the process. You see it's all about the exhaust temperature gasses being high enough to trigger the process, and burn off the soot that has built up in the DPF.

Rule of thumb is, if all you use your car for is knocking about on short cold engine journeys, then buy a petrol engined car. (school run, local supermarket) But if you clock up decent mileage every three hundred miles or so with journey times circa 20 to 30 minutes. Then the car should undertake a "passive regeneration" of the DPF as per normal if and when required.

If you not do such journeys as the norm, then sell the car and get a petrol one, or take it for a burn up the local bypass circa every 300 miles of usage.

To Conclude.

No need to get the jitters about DPF's understanding you have one and what you need to do is all that is required. We had a Volvo S40 2.0D SE with a DPF (same engine as fitted in the 2.0TDCi Focus and Mondeo) It used to go weeks just plodding 1.75 miles through town rush hour traffic on a cold engine in a morning, and the reverse journey in the early evening. Had it nine months and it never ailed a thing, not so much as a burp out of the DPF, because I knew what it required every 300 mile or so.

In the nine months of our ownership it covered 5,368 mile only. 2,560 miles in three trips to Dorset, Scotland and Devon, the other 2,808 miles where split between town driving and trips to towns or shopping centres no more than 15 miles away. So you see you can live with a DPF easily if you know what your doing.

Most people who come a cropper with DPF fitted cars, the one needing a DPF replacement every 75k/ 6 years and additive top ups very 37.5k /3 years. Are the people who buy [in ignorance] 4/5/6 year old cars that have not had the top ups or replacements done, or are due for doing. And the present owner does not want to bear the rip of fees charged by main dealers to undertake such work, so they shut it to the trade and it's moved on to an unsuspecting new owner.

actually the expert did say that the rpm must be above 2500 for 15 mins if you stop or slow down the revs are not high enough and therefore the regen process cuts off and will have to be started again as it requires continous driving to complete the process they had tested a few cars and found stopping at lights or slowing in traffic switched the regen process off

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thanks for all the info

just to update

went to get my car from fords today (car was driving fine just had engine light on)

after all the bull they told me got in the car and left, and guess what the car as gone into limp mode

i went back and played hell cos it was driving fine when i took it there, now they tell me that i got to pay 170 to find out why the car wont regen

and thats before i know whats wrong with the car, i wish i know about all this stuff before i had the car, i would of got 1.8 or 2.0 instead,i will keep u all posted as to what happens I BET IT WILLL COME BACK THE FILTER NEEDS CHANGING LOL

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actually the expert did say that the rpm must be above 2500 for 15 mins if you stop or slow down the revs are not high enough and therefore the regen process cuts off and will have to be started again as it requires continous driving to complete the process they had tested a few cars and found stopping at lights or slowing in traffic switched the regen process off

Not dissing what your saying Artscot, but I find that totally stupid, who would design a system like that, it's in all probability a software programming issue. As the regen criteria is length of time and exhaust gas temperature, or so I was led to believe. I slow to enter a roundabout, exit a roundabout and continue bombing down the dual carriage way Aire Vally Trunk Road come on.

And if that was the case how come I never had any DPF trouble with the driving conditions our car was doing for all of the 9 months we had it, baring the 19 days it was bombing down to the south coast [2 x 8 days] and a 3 day jaunt up to Lanark in Scotland....answer me that ;)

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im no expert this was from the expert on watchdog apparently they have tested it and dispute the manufacturers way that the regen works they found that as soon as the revs dropped too low and the car stopped the regen process stops also thats why manufacturers tell you to maintain a constant speed and drive down a motorway noy round townsome cars now need 30 mins to regen many people on atchdog are complaining about it and being missold cars all manufacturers stated if you do short trips or town driving you should be advised against buying a diesel and get a petrol

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It was this weeks watchdog wasn't it.

It was on but I was doing something else at the time.......DPF issues....old story as far as I personally was concerned so was not watching or listening intently.......might re watch it on BBC iPlayer

Art I did not mean I was expecting you to answer my rhetorical question, hence I put a wink smiley at the end of it. It was just my way of disputing what they had said with my real life driving experience.

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Hi Folks

I think we all need to calm down here. :ph34r:

We are doing what people did when catytic converters came in around 92-93 (not me as i was only 7-8) :ph34r:

Just Drive the car. Keep it well maintained. B)

I know i was fussed about what type of dpf i had but now iam like shrugging my shoulders and just getting on driving the car. :rolleyes:

Jamie

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Hi Folks

I think we all need to calm down here. :ph34r:

We are doing what people did when catytic converters came in around 92-93 (not me as i was only 7-8) :ph34r:

Just Drive the car. Keep it well maintained. B)

I know i was fussed about what type of dpf i had but now iam like shrugging my shoulders and just getting on driving the car. :rolleyes:

Jamie

just a nice discussion to be honest no arguing or disputing simply sharing opinions. its those who worry about the big bill and the fact they feel ripped off that we discuss this topic

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hi artscot

I just flicked through the manual for my car and it only has a short piece on dpf filters.

According to the manual page 121 on the owners handbook (the version i have on the back of the book is ADA04/10 which must be the revision number)

It States

Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF)

The DPF forms part of the emissions reductions systems fitted to your vehicle. It filters harmful diesel particulates (soot) from the exhaust gas.

Regeneration

Do not park or idle your vehicle over dry leaves, dry grass or other cumbustible materials. The DPF regeneration process creates very high exhaust gas temperatures and the exhaust will radiate a considerable amount

of heat during and after the DPF regeneration.

And After you have switched the engine off.

This is a potential fire hazard.

Caution

Avoid Running out of fuel

Note After you have switched off your engine the fans may continue to run for a short period of time.

Unlike a normal filter which requires periodic replacement, the DPF has been designed to regenerate, or clean itself to maintain operating efficiency.

The regeneration process takes place automatically. However, some driving conditions mean that you may need to support the regeneration process.

If you drive only short distances or your journeys contain frequent stopping and starting. where there is increased acceleration and deceleration, occasional trips with the following conditions could assist the regeneration process:

  • Drive your vehicle at a constant speed, preferebly on a main road or motorway, for up to 20 minutes.
  • Avoid prolong idling and always observe speed limits and road conditions.
  • Do not switch off the ignition.
  • Use a lower gear than normalto maintain a higher engine speed during this journey, where appropriate.

This was taken from the 04/10 version of the users manual.

My car with help from the forum has a Coated DPF which requires no fluid whatsoever and is a for life filter

This is because my car is a Stage V 109ps 1.6 TDCI engine. If your Car is a Stage IV car then it will be fitted with a Different type of DPF where in which a additive tank will have been installed next to the fuel tank and you will need the

additive tank topping up with fluid at the 37500 mile service (correct me if iam wrong)

The DPF Forms part of the exhaust system. When the DPF fails it is usally around 75k miles or longer depending on how it is driven A NEW DPF will be required (Aftermarket or OEM)

I Hope You Will Find This Helpful Let Me Know Your Thoughts And Vote This Post Up If You Do

Jamie :-)

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Can I ask a quick question?

When you are referring to Stage IV and Stage V cars are you referring to Euro IV and Euro V cars or something else?

I have just put a deposit down on a 2008 1.6 TDCi Style (110 DPF) with 44k on the clock so would be interested in finding out whether the car has a need for the top up or not.

Having looked at it, I think it is the revision of the last shape (if that makes sense) ie. the one with the chrome tipped front grill and revised (clear) rear lights.

Collection won't be a few weeks, so accessing the owners manual is a bit of a no-no at the moment. I do however have the chassis number, if there are any clues to be gained from that?

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Can I ask a quick question?

When you are referring to Stage IV and Stage V cars are you referring to Euro IV and Euro V cars

yes

I have just put a deposit down on a 2008 1.6 TDCi Style (110 DPF) with 44k on the clock so would be interested in finding out whether the car has a need for the top up or not.

Well according to Fords Maintenance Schedule the Eloy's additive reservoir [which your car has] should be refilled at it's third annual and every sixth year service and so one or every 37.5k whichever comes first. The car in question being on 44k, well I doubt in all honesty that it will have been done. Lets be fair if you were moving your motor on after three years ownership, you would not pay for a service prior to selling it. Nor would you spend the additional £150 or more that dealers are asking to refill the additive reservoir and the ECU reset.

If I were you having it done would be part of the deal, and I'd want a stamp on the log book stating it had been done prior to you taking delivery of the car. Research the cost of "Forced Regenerations" or replacement Filters and you will understand why I'm telling you it's important that it is known to have been done.

Read link in my sig relating to DPF's.

Forget the £1,000 service quoted in the opening post on the linked to thread, peeps on here have recently had quotes of over £1,500 for DPF replacement.

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yes

Well according to Fords Maintenance Schedule the Eloy's additive reservoir [which your car has] should be refilled at it's third annual and every sixth year service and so one or every 37.5k whichever comes first. The car in question being on 44k, well I doubt in all honesty that it will have been done. Lets be fair if you were moving your motor on after three years ownership, you would not pay for a service prior to selling it. Nor would you spend the additional £150 or more that dealers are asking to refill the additive reservoir and the ECU reset.

If I were you having it done would be part of the deal, and I'd want a stamp on the log book stating it had been done prior to you taking delivery of the car. Research the cost of "Forced Regenerations" or replacement Filters and you will understand why I'm telling you it's important that it is known to have been done.

Read link in my sig relating to DPF's.

Forget the £1,000 service quoted in the opening post on the linked to thread, peeps on here have recently had quotes of over £1,500 for DPF replacement.

Cheers for the reply. I am buying the car from a car supermarket (not Carcraft) so will have to investigate what has been done already, though I doubt there is any wriggle-room to get them to do it, as they operate a very strict policy on negotiations (ie they just don't do it) so it may have to be something I get done as soon as I collect it.

However, other than it being recorded in the log book, is there any visible checks an owner can do to check whether it has already been topped up?

I apologise for all the questions, I have been reading up on what I can find out, but searching on my phone isn't the easiest thing to do.

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though I doubt there is any wriggle-room to get them to do it, as they operate a very strict policy on negotiations (ie they just don't do it) so it may have to be something I get done as soon as I collect it.

That old chestnut....everybody deals if they want my trade, I even haggle in the likes of Comet only been refused it once, the salesman was young and inexperenced. He missed a sale, and like I said to him no worries I'll buy it cheaper elsewhere on line ...which I did. Me personally I'd be walking away from the deal, but obviously you money is your money.

However, other than it being recorded in the log book, is there any visible checks an owner can do to check whether it has already been topped up?

In all reality I would say no.

When I had my Volvo you could go into any Volvo dealer give them your reg number and they could look up it's service history on their system. Now wither you can with Fords I don't know, but a quick call to a Ford dealers would answer that particular question for you, and possibly the one wither it has been done or not. And on top of that if it was found not to have been done you could get a quote for the 3 year major service, plus the Eloys top up and reset charge. That way you would know how much this deal is going to cost you in real terms.....

You can appear to be getting a good deal at some dealers only because your getting a motor that is not being sold to you with the relevant Ford services having been done.

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I did manage to squeeze a deal, but I did have to really push very very hard... Not that I am afraid to do so, as again I also haggle pretty much on anything/everything.

Bit of a pity that there is no way of checking as there was no specific mention of it in the car's paperwork at the garage (think the salesman was a bit worried when I was waiting outside the door waiting for them to open this morning - which is always a good thing when they will have already sent off the V5 for my reg-plate transfer ;) as the outcome of me defaulting on the final deal would leave them out of pocket).

I also got the details of the garage who did the 3rd year service (@37,200 miles) and am planning to ring them at lucnch and see if they had done it.

I also popped into the Ford Main Dealers round the corner this morning and asked about electronic service records, but it was a nope. However the service manager did say they could/would do a bleed and replace of the DPF fluid for £92 (all inclusive) for me.

The manager there also said that the cars should have enough fluid to do an extra 5-10k miles over the 37.5k service spell, but the car would just throw an EML fault code when it ran out anyway and he would recommend just waiting until that happened (hmmm... Not my way)

Also he said that changing the DPF was an expensive job and realistically they expect them to survive well past the 75k mark if the fluids are maintained and the car driven properly. Again it would be a matter of just replacing the DPF when it fails, rather than 'because it it is due'.

The car was however a very good deal and having had cars from them before reassures me somewhat.

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As catch has said, there are things to be wary of, you need to be forearmed why buy a car for 2500 when its going to cost you an extra 1500 or 2000 to get the fluid and dpf done, when you could walk away and buy on for 3500 all done, and all cared for. Its your choice what you want to do, but i would say, althought you like the 'focus' do you like 'that car' or could you spend a little more time and visit a few other retailers and maybe get the model you want but a better deal???

Its ultimately your decision, remember you have time to cancel the deal as a cooling off period is always available subject to 'reasonable use' and theres no more reasonable use than not collecting your car!

As for the dpf, your right to ask questions, i made the first and final mistake of buying without researching my focus and its dpf, had i known a fraction of what i do now (thanks to those on this forum and specifically catch!) i would have been following my advice at the time of buying :)

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Agreed.

Being doing more research into the DPF scenarios and also what other options are available to me. The car I have put a deposit on looks to be absolutely bang on, other than the one question over the DPF.

The bonus for me, I suppose, is that I do a fair amount of motorway miles which should hopefully mean lots of chances for the DPF to go through passive regenerations, rather than having to rely on the car choosing to do an active regeneration and being blocked from doing it due to driving conditions.

Again, I have plenty of time to consider my options, but I also do wonder whether the dreaded DPF problems are as commonplace as it would appear - as forums ALWAYS focus on the negatives and can make a reasonable problem sound like a much bigger one. Not that I am saying that this is the case here, but I would be interested to know what the actual failure rate is as a proportion of the volume of cars sold is.

I have also come from owning a 9yo Vauxhall VX220 with 70k+ miles on the clock so having to maintain a car is not really a new scenario to me (and that has a dedicated 'what to look out for' webpage with a list as long as your arm... But is simply the best peice of machinery I have ever had the pleasure of seeing / using).

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oh you flatter me Jeeb, :rolleyes:

Chutney, like I said in my conclusions in post five on this thread

No need to get the jitters about DPF's understanding you have one and what you need to do is all that is required.

And yes we know Fords build into their maintenance schedules a safe margin prior to component failure. Naturally they don't expect vehicles to be falling over three years and two months into year four, or failing DPF's in week eight of it's seventh year......We know of peeps on here getting circa 85/95k out of their DPF's before they fail.

But the fact is your at/near when certain expenditure regards the DPF should have been spent or is due to be spent, and we are just making you aware of that fact.

Some people stretch to get a nice car, and unfortunately in some cases a couple of months down the road, they are stood at a main dealer service desk being told they need to spend £200 to £1,600 on DPF issues. And as a result feel robbed and gutted......if only they had know is all they can say to themselves.......

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All feedback is being greatfully received and if it isn't vomit across that way then I apologise.

As once said a knowledgeable man is a wise man and should be followed. Ignorance is dangerous.

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All feedback is being greatfully received and if it isn't vomit across that way then I apologise.

Chutney,

You've nothing to apologise for, if your happy with the car then go for it. I dare say the next car I get may well be another diesel, as even on our low mileage, we should save circa £500 a year in fuel and road tax.

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did anyone read my post i mean i actualy bothered to take the time to read the manual ? I did want some feedback

Jamie

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did anyone read my post i mean i actualy bothered to take the time to read the manual ? I did want some feedback

Jamie

apologies we get carried away ive heard of people getting stuff from these guys Chester Exhausts on 01244 372555there are 2 types of additive One is the Adblue (Urea) that reduces the Nitric Oxides and the other is Cerenium (III) Oxide that is mixed directly with the fuel and lowers the oxidisation temperature of the soot (Diesel Particulates) so that the DPF can get hot enough to reburn them which one ford uses is anyones guess but you may find a volvo dealer or pugeot will have the same stuff cheaper i read my mates manual and it doesnt give specific info on the additive.

i found this on ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l2736&_nkw=Eolys+fluid

Peugeot/Citroen also use eloys 176 which usally costs between €130-150 for 3 litres. allegedly this is the same as ford cost incl service and reset ecu is more than 200 hopefully this is of some use to you mate

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