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#16 Chutney

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 07:34 AM

yes



Well according to Fords Maintenance Schedule the Eloy's additive reservoir [which your car has] should be refilled at it's third annual and every sixth year service and so one or every 37.5k whichever comes first. The car in question being on 44k, well I doubt in all honesty that it will have been done. Lets be fair if you were moving your motor on after three years ownership, you would not pay for a service prior to selling it. Nor would you spend the additional 150 or more that dealers are asking to refill the additive reservoir and the ECU reset.

If I were you having it done would be part of the deal, and I'd want a stamp on the log book stating it had been done prior to you taking delivery of the car. Research the cost of "Forced Regenerations" or replacement Filters and you will understand why I'm telling you it's important that it is known to have been done.

Read link in my sig relating to DPF's.

Forget the 1,000 service quoted in the opening post on the linked to thread, peeps on here have recently had quotes of over 1,500 for DPF replacement.


Cheers for the reply. I am buying the car from a car supermarket (not Carcraft) so will have to investigate what has been done already, though I doubt there is any wriggle-room to get them to do it, as they operate a very strict policy on negotiations (ie they just don't do it) so it may have to be something I get done as soon as I collect it.

However, other than it being recorded in the log book, is there any visible checks an owner can do to check whether it has already been topped up?

I apologise for all the questions, I have been reading up on what I can find out, but searching on my phone isn't the easiest thing to do.

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#17 catch

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 11:31 AM

though I doubt there is any wriggle-room to get them to do it, as they operate a very strict policy on negotiations (ie they just don't do it) so it may have to be something I get done as soon as I collect it.



That old chestnut....everybody deals if they want my trade, I even haggle in the likes of Comet only been refused it once, the salesman was young and inexperenced. He missed a sale, and like I said to him no worries I'll buy it cheaper elsewhere on line ...which I did. Me personally I'd be walking away from the deal, but obviously you money is your money.

However, other than it being recorded in the log book, is there any visible checks an owner can do to check whether it has already been topped up?


In all reality I would say no.

When I had my Volvo you could go into any Volvo dealer give them your reg number and they could look up it's service history on their system. Now wither you can with Fords I don't know, but a quick call to a Ford dealers would answer that particular question for you, and possibly the one wither it has been done or not. And on top of that if it was found not to have been done you could get a quote for the 3 year major service, plus the Eloys top up and reset charge. That way you would know how much this deal is going to cost you in real terms.....

You can appear to be getting a good deal at some dealers only because your getting a motor that is not being sold to you with the relevant Ford services having been done.

#18 Chutney

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 12:20 PM

I did manage to squeeze a deal, but I did have to really push very very hard... Not that I am afraid to do so, as again I also haggle pretty much on anything/everything.

Bit of a pity that there is no way of checking as there was no specific mention of it in the car's paperwork at the garage (think the salesman was a bit worried when I was waiting outside the door waiting for them to open this morning - which is always a good thing when they will have already sent off the V5 for my reg-plate transfer ;) as the outcome of me defaulting on the final deal would leave them out of pocket).

I also got the details of the garage who did the 3rd year service (@37,200 miles) and am planning to ring them at lucnch and see if they had done it.

I also popped into the Ford Main Dealers round the corner this morning and asked about electronic service records, but it was a nope. However the service manager did say they could/would do a bleed and replace of the DPF fluid for 92 (all inclusive) for me.

The manager there also said that the cars should have enough fluid to do an extra 5-10k miles over the 37.5k service spell, but the car would just throw an EML fault code when it ran out anyway and he would recommend just waiting until that happened (hmmm... Not my way)

Also he said that changing the DPF was an expensive job and realistically they expect them to survive well past the 75k mark if the fluids are maintained and the car driven properly. Again it would be a matter of just replacing the DPF when it fails, rather than 'because it it is due'.

The car was however a very good deal and having had cars from them before reassures me somewhat.

#19 jeebowhite

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:10 AM

As catch has said, there are things to be wary of, you need to be forearmed why buy a car for 2500 when its going to cost you an extra 1500 or 2000 to get the fluid and dpf done, when you could walk away and buy on for 3500 all done, and all cared for. Its your choice what you want to do, but i would say, althought you like the 'focus' do you like 'that car' or could you spend a little more time and visit a few other retailers and maybe get the model you want but a better deal???

Its ultimately your decision, remember you have time to cancel the deal as a cooling off period is always available subject to 'reasonable use' and theres no more reasonable use than not collecting your car!

As for the dpf, your right to ask questions, i made the first and final mistake of buying without researching my focus and its dpf, had i known a fraction of what i do now (thanks to those on this forum and specifically catch!) i would have been following my advice at the time of buying :)

#20 Chutney

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:30 AM

Agreed.

Being doing more research into the DPF scenarios and also what other options are available to me. The car I have put a deposit on looks to be absolutely bang on, other than the one question over the DPF.

The bonus for me, I suppose, is that I do a fair amount of motorway miles which should hopefully mean lots of chances for the DPF to go through passive regenerations, rather than having to rely on the car choosing to do an active regeneration and being blocked from doing it due to driving conditions.

Again, I have plenty of time to consider my options, but I also do wonder whether the dreaded DPF problems are as commonplace as it would appear - as forums ALWAYS focus on the negatives and can make a reasonable problem sound like a much bigger one. Not that I am saying that this is the case here, but I would be interested to know what the actual failure rate is as a proportion of the volume of cars sold is.

I have also come from owning a 9yo Vauxhall VX220 with 70k+ miles on the clock so having to maintain a car is not really a new scenario to me (and that has a dedicated 'what to look out for' webpage with a list as long as your arm... But is simply the best peice of machinery I have ever had the pleasure of seeing / using).

#21 catch

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 04:58 PM

oh you flatter me Jeeb, :rolleyes:

Chutney, like I said in my conclusions in post five on this thread

No need to get the jitters about DPF's understanding you have one and what you need to do is all that is required.


And yes we know Fords build into their maintenance schedules a safe margin prior to component failure. Naturally they don't expect vehicles to be falling over three years and two months into year four, or failing DPF's in week eight of it's seventh year......We know of peeps on here getting circa 85/95k out of their DPF's before they fail.

But the fact is your at/near when certain expenditure regards the DPF should have been spent or is due to be spent, and we are just making you aware of that fact.

Some people stretch to get a nice car, and unfortunately in some cases a couple of months down the road, they are stood at a main dealer service desk being told they need to spend £200 to £1,600 on DPF issues. And as a result feel robbed and gutted......if only they had know is all they can say to themselves.......

#22 Chutney

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 06:28 PM

All feedback is being greatfully received and if it isn't vomit across that way then I apologise.

As once said a knowledgeable man is a wise man and should be followed. Ignorance is dangerous.

#23 catch

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 12:07 AM

All feedback is being greatfully received and if it isn't vomit across that way then I apologise.


Chutney,

You've nothing to apologise for, if your happy with the car then go for it. I dare say the next car I get may well be another diesel, as even on our low mileage, we should save circa 500 a year in fuel and road tax.

#24 james_60

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 10:50 AM

did anyone read my post i mean i actualy bothered to take the time to read the manual ? I did want some feedback



Jamie

#25 artscot79

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 01:01 PM

did anyone read my post i mean i actualy bothered to take the time to read the manual ? I did want some feedback



Jamie


apologies we get carried away ive heard of people getting stuff from these guys Chester Exhausts on 01244 372555there are 2 types of additive One is the Adblue (Urea) that reduces the Nitric Oxides and the other is Cerenium (III) Oxide that is mixed directly with the fuel and lowers the oxidisation temperature of the soot (Diesel Particulates) so that the DPF can get hot enough to reburn them which one ford uses is anyones guess but you may find a volvo dealer or pugeot will have the same stuff cheaper i read my mates manual and it doesnt give specific info on the additive.

i found this on ebay http://www.ebay.co.u...nkw=Eolys fluid

Peugeot/Citroen also use eloys 176 which usally costs between 130-150 for 3 litres. allegedly this is the same as ford cost incl service and reset ecu is more than 200 hopefully this is of some use to you mate

#26 jeebowhite

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 03:19 PM

Catch - what can I say - I love you!! lol

Its true though, most of my knowledge originated from the forums, and I remember you were a keen participant in the various DPF threads I have raised, amongst a few others, and the forums are a good place to learn, and to get the right advise from those who have learned the hardware (that would be me!) and those who just have a clue from day one... (that would be 90% of the rest of the forum, lol)

Chutney, just do what is best for you, as you have the time to do so, use it wisely and make sure that you are falling for the car that suits you and will please your wallet... my bank manager hated me after I bought my Focus, and had I had the availability of a bit more time to research, I would have still gone with the Focus, but maybe a petrol, or one that the DPF wasnt going to be a nuisance on... Or I would have moved house - maybe that would have helped! lol

Jamie, your research was bang on, the details are right, and as long as you trust the manual and act accordingly, then you can save a lot of hassle... as for the details arts provided I think that should be everything, lol OEM is only important as long as the warranty is valid. after that point, look after it, make it last, but when it goes... why give all your money back to Ford? they wont reward you (no dealers will really) and you could save an arm and a leg with perfectly good aftermarkets...

A lesson well learned from someone who got burned by this topic!

#27 catch

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 04:21 PM

Catch - what can I say - I love you!! lol

it's reciprocal :D

And james_60 as your last post/question was directed to all thread participants.....yes I did read your quotes from your manual. And I thought that's good of James to copy all that info down, but I did not realise you wanted an accolade for doing it ;):P

I myself can write pieces on a thread subject that some on here may consider boarder on challenging Leo Tolstoy's epic War and Peace :rolleyes: And some posts even appear to become the grave stone that marks the end of a threads interesting life............but as I'm not "needy" I don't take it personally :D

But in all seriousness, as the post in question was directed to artscot79 ...............I reckon he owes you a box of chocolates or possibly an oil filter as an act of contrition.

And Chutney, jeebo is right, he bought a motor he thought was the "dogs whatsits" ...............I mean come on who doesn't. You don't go to a dealers look at a motor and think I reckon I could have a load of hassle with that motor but I'll buy it anyway. As it turned out it was the spawn of Satan.

#28 james_60

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 08:57 AM

Hi dudes


Thanks for the replies.

Iam glad we have finally sorted out what cars have the non maintenance dpf's and the eloys fluid type.
Can we make a sticky for people who want to know if there car has what type of dpf we have discussed.


I just wish there was some indication whether the dpf was regenerating for piece of mind.



I will always try and help people before i help myself lol



We should arrange a meet up



Jamie :rolleyes:

#29 catch

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 09:14 AM

Hi dudes


Thanks for the replies.

Iam glad we have finally sorted out what cars have the non maintenance dpf's and the eloys fluid type.
Can we make a sticky for people who want to know if there car has what type of dpf we have discussed.


Yes that was indeed a step in the right direction James, and like I said, that being the case I may consider a euro 5 designated 1.6TDCi when I eventually swop [I like the bigger boot on the Mk2.5, and you know what I'm still not fully sold on the exterior styling of the Mk3. Though I don't doubt it is a more technically superior car]

I just wish there was some indication whether the dpf was regenerating for piece of mind.


Yes that would be a good move, that way peeps would know not to stop the car until they got a message saying regen successful.

#30 jeebowhite

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 02:32 PM

And Chutney, jeebo is right, he bought a motor he thought was the "dogs whatsits" ...............I mean come on who doesn't. You don't go to a dealers look at a motor and think I reckon I could have a load of hassle with that motor but I'll buy it anyway. As it turned out it was the spawn of Satan.


Lol oh so very very true... Its good to have the information first though, looking at new cars can be all too exciting, but thinking about them can be the last thing on anyones mind!

As I have previously mentioned (not necessarily this thread... or was it?)... I think Ford should make an "uh oh - you just cabbaged your DPF" light, and maybe they should have a "dont panic - its regenerating, its working - keep up the good driving and I will look after the DPF" light... Personally I think they would be very advantageous. but unfortunately the only way to know that its doing it right, is to drive each day and add another tally mark against your "no limp home mode" chart.

PS, if anyone here owns the car reg NG55 HXO please do let me know, and I will probably advise you to run!! that is if Satan hasnt recalled it in a puff of smoke, a blaze of fiery glory, and the biggest fireworks display ever seen by mans naked eye.... all because its DPF is having a bad day...

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