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#1 SamandMark

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 10:58 PM

Sorry if not posted this in the right part of the Forum.
Just moving on from our last thread, about the problems we have with our recently purchased Mondeo. Do we have any rights, to get our money, old Mondeo back? Basically we are still waiting for the dealer at the garage to ring us, about getting the Mondeo we have just brought, back in for the work that needs doing to it. He reckoned he was going to call, to let us know when the courtesy car will be available, but still heard nothing. To be honest we're both (me and hubby) regretting part ex'ing our old Mondeo for this one, we seem to have bought a bag of nails, in replace of a Mondeo that had very few problems!! Our 7 days aren't up until this Saturday, but do we have to give the dealer a chance to put this one right?

Also a bit gutted, we got £3,500 in part ex for our ST 54 reg, with 77200 miles on the clock, with FMDSH. The dealer's exact words to us 'I won't sell it, mileage is to high'.................He has advertised it on his website for £5,495.00.....Gutted isn't the word....We should NEVER have done this deal :( This is why a woman should never be given the choice, I agreed on the part ex and new car :rolleyes:

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#2 Z3 MON

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 08:08 AM

I am in the same boat expect i bought mine private :(

i would give him a call and see what his excuse is, if it doesnt feel right tell him your returning the car and expect your one back.

Dave

#3 pragmatix

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 08:44 AM

Have you anything in writing, if not dont worry to much all cars sold have a 3 month warranty I would write to the dealer setting out you problems, also inform them that you will be taking this to tTading Standards. Get in touch with your local trading standards office and see what they have to say.
Keep copies of any correspondence you may get on the matter as a last reort there is the small claims court, but trading standards are your best bet

#4 SamandMark

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 09:02 AM

I am in the same boat expect i bought mine private :(

i would give him a call and see what his excuse is, if it doesnt feel right tell him your returning the car and expect your one back.

Dave


Sorry to hear your in the same boat Dave. I'm going to give him until tomorrow, if heard nothing, I'm going in to see him. The biggest thing is, he lied to us, about our Mondeo ST, saying he wasn't going to sell it, which is why I accepted the £3,500 part ex, thinking at that price, if he's passing it on to another dealer, he could possibly make a couple of hundred quid on it, how wrong I was.

Have you anything in writing, if not dont worry to much all cars sold have a 3 month warranty I would write to the dealer setting out you problems, also inform them that you will be taking this to tTading Standards. Get in touch with your local trading standards office and see what they have to say.
Keep copies of any correspondence you may get on the matter as a last reort there is the small claims court, but trading standards are your best bet


Thanks Pragmatix. We only have the receipt from what we paid extra for this current bag of nails :rolleyes: That is exactly how I'm going to describe this one, when I see the dealer. We sold him a perfectly good car, to end up with this :( If I've heard nothing by tomorrow, I will be phoning Trading standards and see if I can take it further.
He will also be told, if he doesn't sort it asap (by the middle of next week) we will be taking it to Ford to be sorted out, and he will foot the bill.

#5 ijustwantafile

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 09:18 AM

Get a friend who knows more about cars and has a bit of a way with words and take him to the garage with you and just demand what you want doing. Do it in front of his customers if you have to.

#6 SamandMark

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 09:47 AM

Get a friend who knows more about cars and has a bit of a way with words and take him to the garage with you and just demand what you want doing. Do it in front of his customers if you have to.


Thanks Ijustwantafile. Unfortunately we don't really know anyone, who knows more about cars. The dealer is going to get my honest opinion, customers in ear shot or not, this is no way to do business in my eyes... We will never buy a car from him again thats for sure!

#7 rojariggs

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 10:25 AM

If the problems are serious, you may have grounds to demand a refund (and return of your PX) but otherwise the dealer's obligation is to repair the faults. Bear in mind that on a used car the threshold for what may be deemed a serious fault will be different to that of a new car. Mileage, history and the price paid also play a part in determining what may or may be a serious fault.

You haven't said what the problems you are having are? They key phrase in the law regarding your right to a refund is whether the car is "fit for purpose". If you have a serious problem (ie Engine failure, gearbox failure, etc) which prevents you from using the car then you have an straight forward case to ask for a refund.

However, if you have experienced a fault (or a number of faults) which do not prevent you from using the car then your case is less strong. The dealer in this case should arrange for the faults to be repaired but you are not necessarily entitled to a refund. If the dealer is given a fair chance to repair the faults (this is not a time period defined in law but is expected to be considered reasonable by both sides) and fails to do so then your case for a refund strengthens but is still not a right.

If you can give some more detail, I may be able to give more specific advice.

#8 SamandMark

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 12:07 PM

If the problems are serious, you may have grounds to demand a refund (and return of your PX) but otherwise the dealer's obligation is to repair the faults. Bear in mind that on a used car the threshold for what may be deemed a serious fault will be different to that of a new car. Mileage, history and the price paid also play a part in determining what may or may be a serious fault.

You haven't said what the problems you are having are? They key phrase in the law regarding your right to a refund is whether the car is "fit for purpose". If you have a serious problem (ie Engine failure, gearbox failure, etc) which prevents you from using the car then you have an straight forward case to ask for a refund.

However, if you have experienced a fault (or a number of faults) which do not prevent you from using the car then your case is less strong. The dealer in this case should arrange for the faults to be repaired but you are not necessarily entitled to a refund. If the dealer is given a fair chance to repair the faults (this is not a time period defined in law but is expected to be considered reasonable by both sides) and fails to do so then your case for a refund strengthens but is still not a right.

If you can give some more detail, I may be able to give more specific advice.


Thank you Rojariggs, really helpful advice :)
There is another thread on here I started with some info on the problems (thread called Bizarre start up and other)
The problems we are experiencing with the car are;

1) When starting the car (Cold or hot engine......Was at first only happening when the engine was hot, now its all the time) its not firing up correctly, it takes between 5-15 seconds to properly kick in, in this space of 5-15 secs, the engine management light is staying on, which then goes off when the car is running correctly.

2) Sometimes it refuses to go in to reverse, 1st and 2nd gear. Reverse gear, the gearbox seems to lock, as though there is no gear for it to go in to.

3) Engine noise, very loud, even for a diesel.

4) Lock to lift the bonnet up, is not releasing as it should, so have to really fiddle about with it.

5) There is a slight vibration through the clutch pedal.

6) Central locking, having to press the key fob 2 or 3 times to unlock all the doors.

#9 rojariggs

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 12:56 PM

I feel for you - There's nothing worse than swapping your car in for something your don't like or have problems with. I've done it many times... :rolleyes:

The problem you have legally is that the law is not like a warranty and it does not clearly stipulate what components are serious or indeed which faults would allow you to demand a refund. Unfortunately, it's all about perception and expectation.

I think that the first two faults are probably borderline whether you could argue "not fit for purpose". They are certainly annoying and will make using the car difficult - On the flip-side there's a good chance that both are easy to resolve (see summary below of potential causes).

The other four issues would not be enough on their own to warrant a refund. It's a five year old car and cannot be expected to be perfect. The dealer should still resolve them but they could in no way be classed as serious.

It is quite possible that you could try and argue that this many faults so soon into ownership is unacceptable. This has certainly worked with some dealers in the past. The problem is that again it comes back to fact that the dealer's legal responsbility is to repair the faults and while refunds are mentioned in law there is no definition of what constitutes a fault serious enough to get a refund.

The applicable law is the Sale of Goods Act 1979 and it states:

"A secondhand vehicle must match its description, be fit for its purpose, and be of satisfactory quality. However, the standard for meeting the requirement that the vehicle is of satisfactory quality will be lower because it is secondhand. A secondhand vehicle should be in reasonable condition and work properly. When deciding whether a secondhand vehicle is in reasonable condition it is important to consider the vehicle’s age and make, the past history of the vehicle and how much you paid for it.

If a secondhand vehicle needs more extensive repairs than seemed necessary at the time it was bought, this does not necessarily mean that the vehicle is not of satisfactory quality. A secondhand vehicle can be of satisfactory quality if it is in a useable condition, even if it is not perfect.

If the vehicle develops a problem soon after you bought it, you may have a right to return the vehicle to the dealer and get your money back. This would probably need to be within about three to four weeks at the most of buying the vehicle. The problem would need to be fairly major, and you would need to take into account the age, mileage and price of the vehicle when deciding whether it is reasonable to take it back."


As you can see, there are a lot of words like "fairly", "reasonable", etc which you and the dealer will have a different view of!!

Your best course of action is to contact the dealer (I would suggest verbally and follow up in writing) and tell him exactly what you want and in what timeframe - but be reasonable. Say you want repairs or a refund within 7 days as you feel the number of faults is unacceptable and that you want to reject the car. You will then have to see what he then offers.

It will be better if you can sort this out with the dealer through negotiation as the next steps should you and the dealer not be able to agree on a resolution is to bring in independent mechanics or the AA/RAC to inspect the car and then head off down the legal route either via the small claims court or through a solicitor. Once you start to go down this route you will need to stop using the car and it will cost you money that you have no guarantee of either getting this money back or resolving the issue (as a court may agree with the dealer!).

The kind of things the problems be:

1) When starting the car its not firing up correctly
A. Fuel filter or flow problem, injector problem, sensor problem, glow plug problem. None are hugely expensive or difficult to fix.
2) Sometimes it refuses to go in to reverse, 1st and 2nd gear.
A. Most likely gear selector but could also be clutch or gearbox. If the gear selector it is again not hugely expensive or difficult to fix.
3) Engine noise, very loud, even for a diesel.
A. Was your previous car a diesel? Have you tried another Mondeo with the same engine and a similar age for comparison?
4) Lock to lift the bonnet up, is not releasing as it should, so have to really fiddle about with it.
A. Could be sticking catch. May need replacing or even just a bit of WD40.
5) There is a slight vibration through the clutch pedal.
A. Was your previous car a diesel? There is generally more vibration through the clutch pedal of a diesel than a petrol. Again, can you compare this against another Mondeo?
6) Central locking, having to press the key fob 2 or 3 times to unlock all the doors.
A. Is the car setup to need the button pressed 2 times to unlock the doors anyway? (ie Driver's door then other doors?). The battery would be the first thing to check. Have you got a spare remote key? Does that do the same?

#10 SamandMark

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 01:11 PM

I feel for you - There's nothing worse than swapping your car in for something your don't like or have problems with. I've done it many times... :rolleyes:

The kind of things the problems be:

1) When starting the car its not firing up correctly
A. Fuel filter or flow problem, injector problem, sensor problem, glow plug problem. None are hugely expensive or difficult to fix.
2) Sometimes it refuses to go in to reverse, 1st and 2nd gear.
A. Most likely gear selector but could also be clutch or gearbox. If the gear selector it is again not hugely expensive or difficult to fix.
3) Engine noise, very loud, even for a diesel.
A. Was your previous car a diesel? Have you tried another Mondeo with the same engine and a similar age for comparison?
4) Lock to lift the bonnet up, is not releasing as it should, so have to really fiddle about with it.
A. Could be sticking catch. May need replacing or even just a bit of WD40.
5) There is a slight vibration through the clutch pedal.
A. Was your previous car a diesel? There is generally more vibration through the clutch pedal of a diesel than a petrol. Again, can you compare this against another Mondeo?
6) Central locking, having to press the key fob 2 or 3 times to unlock all the doors.
A. Is the car setup to need the button pressed 2 times to unlock the doors anyway? (ie Driver's door then other doors?). The battery would be the first thing to check. Have you got a spare remote key? Does that do the same?


Again thanks so much Rojariggs :)
We have owned a 07 plate Mondeo, which was a Zetec, diesel, always had diesel Mondeo's. The engine on our current one, definately sounds a lot louder than any of our other Mondeo's. Every now and then, there's a slight rattle/vibration you can hear when the engine is running. Can't really recall feeling vibration through the clutch pedal on any of the other Mondeo's, however its never something I've thought about until now. We do have a spare remote key and I believe the central locking is exactly the same with that one, but will double check that later when hubby gets home.
I'm going to write down your advice on these problems too, so I can take it with me when we go back to see the dealer tomorrow :)

#11 ijustwantafile

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 01:38 PM

6) Central locking, having to press the key fob 2 or 3 times to unlock all the doors.


Does one press unlock drivers door? and 2/3 do rest?
Take a look at this:
http://www.fordowner...ge__pid__126040

#12 SamandMark

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 01:42 PM

Does one press unlock drivers door? and 2/3 do rest?
Take a look at this:
http://www.fordowner...ge__pid__126040


Yes, thats exactly what it does. Thanks for the link, off to have a read now :)

#13 SamandMark

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 09:07 PM

Just a bit of an update. Have spoken to one of the lads at the garage we got our current Mondeo from today, they are going to get it in, and send it to a Ford dealership to have the ECU updated, mid week, next week. Not sure who they are going to get to look at the other issue's!! Will make sure we know once we drop it off. I think the owner of the garage must know how we feel about it....I didn't want to mention things to the lad I spoke to, but after he rung me back, after clarifying with his boss what was what, I made sure I told him how I felt about things, bizarrely enough this poor lad agreed with me, lol.
However want to add, we have noticed something else with the car. When you press the clutch pedal, there's a pretty bad rattling engine noise, but when you release the clutch pedal, the noise gets less. Any idea's what this could be?
Thanks all.
Sam and Mark.

#14 artherdaily

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:20 AM

honest advise
you are at the mercy of the dealer/garage
my only advice as a X used car salesman is be nice to them, keep them on your side and they will help you
your rights are simple
the car you bought has to be upto the job its designed for , theres no real warrenty in place ,you dont get 7 days 28 days or 3 months unless its made obvious in the litreture, or adverts or you purchased an extended warentee, but the newer and lower milage the car is the more you should expect it to go with out major problems, or require repairs/maintenance
you can opt to reject the car, but this is long winded and you can be charge for any miles you have done with the car and the fact that the car you bought now has an extra owner on the log book
dont expect your old car back, you sold it, but you can always ask, you never know
it is all donewn to the garage and if they are a good garage with a reputation or a garage thats just out to sell cars and make a quick profit
if things are not looking good, go to the papers, local radio, trading standards, trading bodies, etc
did you take finance out on the car at the garage that is a car finance agreement, if so you can go to your finance company and take it up with them
as i said you can opt to reject the car, but your best bet is to get it repaired, at least once it is sorted out, you will have a car you know is right, you havnt had the car long and must give the garage time to sort the car out, this could take a couple of weeks, or longer, it can take over a week to get parts in some cases
its unfortunate that you have started of on a bad experience with the car, but it can be resolved if they are a decent garage, if there are a bit dodgy, you may have to bite the bullet on this
if the garage is part of a group, contact a director and explain to them your problems and issues, in most cases problems dont get past up the line and get coverd up, but if you go to the top they care about reputation and will help you sort it out
but most of all BE NICE
be there friend, dont shout, be helpful, keep in touch, make them like you and want to help you
if you scream and shout at them, they will dig there heels in , avoid you and wont feel it worth while to help you

hope this helps, good luck

#15 SamandMark

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 01:56 PM

Thanks very much for your advice Artherdaily :)
We have decided not to pursue getting our previous Mondeo back, really it's pointless. We are going to give the dealer a chance to rectify the problems we have, which as you say, if they are sorted, we have a good car. Its just so hard to stay nice, after being put in this position, however I have taken on board what you have said, so I will be nice for now, unless the problems continue after they have had the chance to fix them.
Thanks again, Sam and Mark.

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