Dpf Delete On The Cheap < £1 - Experiments

[ajt]

I'm going to see how far I can get with a diy dpf delete.

By this I mean fool the ECU into thinking the DPF is operating normally, when infact it has been drilled/replaced with straight pipe. This would not get around the EOYLS additive problem, but that is small fish compared to new dpf.

I have already worked out the pressure sensor SIM needs to be a 10.5K and 4.2k resistors, so I thought I would disconnect the DPF pressure sensor and get the MIL light before attaching the SIM (assumed it would be instant, but not so). After I get the MIL light I will attach the SIM. The MIL Light should then go out and stay out.

Next I will be on the lookout for a drilled out DPF or straight pipe (hint, hint), to replace my fully functioning (why destroy it) dpf.

EDIT: ONE YEAR ON

This went no where, as I could not force a DPF fault. Then last week whilst repairing turbo found welded patch on side of DPF. It had already been removed unbeknownst to me! Still think my theory is sound though!

[salsheikh]

mate, why dont you get into contact with Nick at R-Tech in Hinckley who custom maps cars and offers a DPF delete and removal. If this is out of the question then try Custom Chrome in Nuneaton for a piece of pipe to replace the DPF, they can do the fitting for you too.

[ajt]

No offence, but I think you missed the point of my post

I have no problem with my current system, but I am the inquisitive type. I don't want to pay 2-400 quid, when at the end of the day it's probably an hours labour to replace the pipe.

Then hookup to diagnostic kit to disable the sensor alarm. This is the bit that I think could be done for less than a pound, maybe :)

[markw96]

mate, why dont you get into contact with Nick at R-Tech in Hinckley who custom maps cars and offers a DPF delete and removal. If this is out of the question then try Custom Chrome in Nuneaton for a piece of pipe to replace the DPF, they can do the fitting for you too.

I emailed R-Tech in Hinckley weeks ago concerning this matter and never even recieved a reply so i definetly wont be bothering with them again.

[Mozo Jojo]

ajt, you are on the right path mate :)

Good luck. the system work like a charm, but as i am not that good with electronics/electrics, i had to pay for it. Doesn't matter, it works :)

As an advice, try and put a heat shield on the components, and you will be good to go.

[tomo2001]

What happens at MOT time ?

[ajt]

What happens at MOT time ?

I think on diesels its just a visual out the exhuast, i.e. no black smoke.

[Barry_]

I think on diesels its just a visual out the exhuast, i.e. no black smoke.

LOL - I doubt the very much!!!! - My 1.8 TDCI (these TDCI's don't have DPF's) smokes like a trouper - not noticable most of the time - mainly at night in rear view mirror in following cars headlamps, but still as they say "No smoke, No poke LOL) - Ok its not like constant smoke like, but stick your foot down and you see the puffs behind you.... BUT when my motor had its MOT last - about 2 mths ago - its passed the emissions test with flying colours - the levels were so low that it nearly didn't even register - Chap said if it was possible to get them re-classed then my car tax would reduce to pretty much zero LOL (wishful thinking there!!!)

[ajt]

OK slightly more scientific than looking for black smoke, but basicaly correct ;)

Had my MOT in the last couple of weeks, and just checked it.

A metered smoke test is performed, and a pass is an avergae of 1.5 1/m (mine was 0.83 1/m).

Ripped the following from a pdf leaflet

Metered Smoke Test (Diesel)

The metered smoke test has been conducted in

EU countries for many years. During this test, a

calibrated smoke meter is used to assess the

density of the smoke from compression ignition

(

diesel) engined vehicles.

The engine will be accelerated up to governed

speed and the smoke density measured.

Engines that emit very little smoke and achieve

a meter reading of

1.5m-1 or less will pass the

test after the first acceleration. However, if the

test is not passed on the first acceleration a

further two accelerations will be carried out.

The average of the three acceleration readings

will be calculated and if the reading is at or

below

2.5m-1 for non-turbocharged engines

or

3.0m-1 for turbocharged engines, the

vehicle will pass this element of the test.

However, if the average is higher, a further

acceleration will be carried out, and the average

of the last three readings will be calculated. This

will continue up to a maximum of six

accelerations. If the average of the fourth, fifth

and sixth accelerations is higher than the

appropriate level, the vehicle will not pass the

test.

In addition, vehicles may be refused a

certificate if the exhaust emits excessive smoke

or vapour, to an extent likely to obscure vision.

A metered smoke test will not be carried out if:



The exhaust tail pipe is damaged or an

accessory is fitted which prevents

insertion of the smoke meter probe.



The exhaust system is extensively

fractured or holed.



There are obvious signs of an engine

defect such as an unusual noise or

emission of excessive smoke.



There is an insufficient or excessive

amount of oil in the engine or, low

engine oil pressure, which could cause

engine damage if the engine is

accelerated.



There are obvious signs that the

governors have been tampered with or

are not operating.



The vehicle owner / presenter cannot

confirm that the vehicle has been

properly maintained, the camshaft drive

belt has been replaced at the

recommended intervals and the engine

is in a suitable condition for testing.

In the above circumstances where a metered

smoke test is not carried out, the vehicle will fail

the test.

Note: It is important that vehicles are

properly maintained prior to testing

(including changing of the camshaft drive

belts in accordance with the manufacture

r’s

recommendation) and presented for test at

normal working temperature. This may

require the engine to be kept running prior

to the start of the test.

[salsheikh]

I emailed R-Tech in Hinckley weeks ago concerning this matter and never even recieved a reply so i definetly wont be bothering with them again.

always best to ring him, i know sometimes he works away and doesnt access his emails. I'll have a word and get him to pull his finger out!

[artscot79]

Its a mod from standard so the insurance has to know theres unclarified issues as to how it effects the tax band.

The dpf data strings are embedded deep in the ecu connected to exhaust gas temp sensor the lambda sensoq the differential pressure sensor and a lot more its not as easy as whack a resistoq on and hey presto.

And though dpf removal as yet isnt ilegal fitting a straight through pipe is these companies arent to blame as its the owners responsibility to ensure the car passes the soot test and just because it does now doesnt mean it will later.

It is said like america it may become law and tested during an m.o.t

If it were as easy as you think these companies would be out of business some issues with deleted dpfs by companies are cropping up from ecu glitches car not starting excessive smoke car going into limp mode so beware folks

[ajt]

Does any one actually read my original post?

@artscot79

Quote

"The dpf data strings are embedded deep in the ecu connected to exhaust gas temp sensor the lambda sensoq the differential pressure sensor and a lot more its not as easy as whack a resistoq on and hey presto."

Can you post a link to where you found this information. Might be useful in working out what needs to be done.

Quote

"And though dpf removal as yet isnt ilegal..." yet your original post (before editing) you stated (as in fact) that it was illegal, so before posting in a way that implies knowledge, please state opinion or fact.

Your point about tax I fully see (had already considered it myself). Tax band being based on emissions control system, but as I state in the title of the thread and in original post I AM EXPERIMENTING. For all I know my car may have already had a DPF delete done to it. Can't get the check engine light to come on with the DPF pressure sensor coming on.

Quote

"If it were as easy as you think..." you ASSUME i'm not a genius or idiot savant, yet you don't know me! Beside that when did I say it was easy. If it was easy, I wouldn't bother.

[stef123]

the tax is based on co2 emissions? hence why diesels are cheaper on tax..shouldnt affect this surely?

[artscot79]

i never implied anyone was an idiot so wind it in a bit mate i stated its not that easy .

as for the data strings the info is from a ford mechanic who looked into doing the same from his car and spoke to an expert sent from ford to look at someones car that had issues as it was stated to him you need inside know how as to how and what yu can delete within the files in the ecu to which he would not provide, the list of sensors its linked to is quite extensive he was informed the customer in question had a company do an ecu upgrade and the dpf deleted a few months later the car went into limp mode the company who did the work had no idea what was wrong and it was the fact that the sensors were registering faults as the dpf regen information was still in the ecu confusing the whole thing.

as he stated the equipment used by these companies is quite amateur they remap the ecu with pre programmed maps based on that model of car but ford update ecus all the time so the info in each cars ecu is different the end result was a dpf had to be refitted to clear the issue as they had no idea what was done to the ecu the company luckily reverted it back to normal and all was fine

removing the dpf is not illegal as vosa state however tampering with emission systems that define a vehicles tax band are, its like you can buy cannabis seeds but cant grow them so its legal not to have a dpf but not legal to tamper with emission systems or put a straight through pipe in but people do and thats up to them personally if a dpf is an issue dont buy a diesel.

as for experimenting thats great but it gives people ideas thet they can do the same as you and there car will be fine some people will just jump at it and copy you without finding out what you have discovered in the process.

[ajt]

@artscot79

So still no links to any definitive information on how the Ford dpf regen system works. Just a very confusing read about some hearsay.

OK here goes, this is MY theory on how it MIGHT work, from reading a lot of posts on various forums and white papers on diesel engines.

The ECU detects a blocked DPF by the voltage supplied from the voltage divider from the pressure sensor.

IF the ECU decides the DPF is above a certain threshold of blockage then it tries to start a regen. AT THIS POINT all the other sensors come into play as to wether or not the conditons are right to start regen, most importantly exhaust temperature high enough.

So don't let the ECU think that the dpf is blocked, which it can't be if its been replaced with stright pipe. This is where the 10.5K/4.2K resistors across the pressure sesnor plug come in (fool the ECU into thinking pressure sensor is attached and dpf is not above thresh hold.

The EOYLS which is added to the tank every time more than 5l of diesel is added, could just be topped up with diesel, and I think i have read about a procedure to reset the EOYLS level with a bit of whitch craft if you do it as soon as a warning is shown on the dash.

So based on the above no ECU programming required, just let the ECU carry on monitoring a striaght pipe that will never be blocked, giving the ECU readings that a proper dpf (that wasn't blocked) would give, so as to not trigger any faults. Let the ECU keep dosing the diesel tank with EOYLS and replace with diesel in 3-6 years depending on how many miles you drive.

As I said it's only a theory.

[ajt]

Oh and all these people that have had problems after dpf deletes, can you point me to any posts by the person who has actually had a problem. Would love to pick their brains.

[artscot79]

from sinspeed dpf removals

Will this cause me to fail an MOT?

Not with us! It is not illegal to remove the DPF and this can be confirmed by VOSA. Just like a petrol car, it is not illegal to remove the catalytic converter either. The MOT regulations say nothing about a vehicle having a catalytic converter or a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF). They merely set emission levels which have to be achieved. However, having the DPF Removed from a mobile agent may cause problems and implications come to the time of an MOT.

Other companies & mobile agents use “Automated DPF-Deletion” software, it’s easier for them because they can simply plug a laptop into your car, download the ECU data.. run it through the software and then write it back to the ECU. What the software does is using pre-set parameters, it attempts to scan & detect all DPF file structures that are known to the software and delete them accordingly. So what’s the problem with this? – Simply put, this software fails to remove 100% of the DPF file structure on even the simplest of ECU’s and some manufacturers ECU,s are extremely complex and in result of this you will be left with data corruption / errors and problems (if not immediately) then in the months to follow. Further to this, no other company in the whole of the UK & possibly Europe currently offers a Smoke-Correction service inclusive of a DPF Removal (Many are incapable of carrying out this specialist procedure). We include this on every “DPF Removal” session so you get complete peace of mind.

What we do is unique, we download the ECU data and manually flow through the 1000′s of data strings to locate and delete & modify all DPF data structure strings. This is the ONLY sure way to delete a DPF system completely without problems occurring but we don’t stop their, we then go on to carry out a smoke-correction service all inclusive of the DPF Removal session – This will ensure the vehicle will NOT smoke & WILL pass an MOT!.. No other company offers this service!!

As many use a cracked software called ECUSafe which really doesn't remove the dpf from the system, yes you will not get any fault codes but the ecu still thinks there is a dpf.

my mot mate was at a confe rence where sykes avant have got new diesel emission testers that are planned to be part of the mot test these measure the nox levels and pinpoint emission related issues the word is 2012 will be the date set 2013 at the latest covering diesels built from 2008 onwards .

seat forum... As i have posted before, straight away after getting my dpf delete done, the engine managment light came on, i got it put on diagnostic, and showed EGT sensor static fault bank 1 sensor 2, phoned up custom code they told me these sensors are common to go, had to buy a new sensor at £106!!!! Got my mechanic friend to fit it for the old one, tried to clear fault and still on! I have drove the car for a couple of days and attempted with the diagnostic a couple of times now to switch it off, and it is showing the same fault with the brand new part? Custom code told me there are 3 sensors, in the downpipe, 2 lambda's and 1 egt, the egt is the one that looks different to the other 2???? So it has been replaced at my cost and still an error? What is going on!!!!!!

Hi guys...had this same issue exactly. MPG dropped to about 28-34MPG. Also exhaust note changed, this is very noticeable as I have a full custom exhaust.

This was explained as its the ECU trying to dump diesel to the DPF to burn off the soot. But when its removed its dumping diesel into your exhaust, the heat in exhaust is burning it making the exhaust smoke more dense and changing the note you can hear. Also had the engine warning light. As explained on another post. Its not a sensor. Its the map. map was redone but guess what same problem i took it back to the tuners who blamed seats ecu map i took it to seat and they laughed at me what do i do now....

Gets better and better........ after succesfully doing my egt sensor(s) after £218 spent, my light has came on after a few days, and a new code is up, intermittent Lamda sensor BANK 1, phoned up seat £113!!!!!!!!!That will be £331 on sensors!!!!!!!!!!! on top of £800 for dpf delete. THat is excluding the £20 a sensor replacement i have been paying my local mechanic!!!!!!! At the end of my teather now...

mazda forum...My engine management light was replaced by the DPF light about a week ago. WTF? I dont even have a DPF!!!

Went into limp mode today :-(

Drove to nearest garage with diagnostics and they couldnt get rid of the fault. Codes were coming up with 4 different fuelling and sensor issues. He said it was quite serious. Cost me £50 too for nothing.unable to get this sorted mazda believe the dpf delete is killing the sensors new sensors in total £600 WTF so much for dpf deletes saving you money.went to amd who say theres likely code hidden deep in the ecu that hasnt been removed and theres not much they can do.

Had to buy new lambda today at £113 fitted tommorow by j gracie, it defo is the map causing these sensors to go, as my car is a 58 plate had it since it was 6months old august, with 6.5k on it, its now 13k. And before dpf delete there was no sensor issues. This better be the end of it tomorrow. J.Gracie is fitting for free. In total this has cost me £800 for map £325 for 3 sensors, one EGT sensor being the wrong one ordered. And £40 to my local mechanic for fitting the two egt sensors. So that £1165 excluding travelling 110 mile round trip 3x to customcode.

just my thoughts to the people thinking about getting a DPF delete...

i wouldnt bother. i had a nightmare, similar to the OP's.

Managed to get (some) of my money back and now i have my DPF back on! thank god!!!

audi..hi guys i had my dpf removed on my car couple of weeks back and there is alot of black smoke coming from exhaust failed my mot smoke test dpf removal company arent interested.

Just on another note that I'm sure you all know but it will become illegal to remove DPF filters next year on newer cars just like cat they are a MOT requirement. The nice part for the tuning companies will be if VOSA /DFT go the same way a they have with adblue and go after the tuning company if the customer tells them who did it. Why would the customer do that do I hear you say, well it's them or the tuner being prosecuted. Also the "it's only for track use seems to not work too well either"

Audi 2.0 TDi 170bhp - similar experience - had the DPF removed - remapped and tuned - initially great performance but after 3 weeks and 400 miles the DPF warning light was again, white / blue smoke and engine into limp mode - had it remapped AGAIN and assured that a new sensor had been fitted but same problems after another 2 weeks this is costing me twice as much as a dpf replacement now - any advice - greatly appreciated, thanks.

land rover YES I HAVE THE INMOTION TUNE. i made the postings on this website...

The reason i ask is MAYBE there is SOME gain from a DPF delete, but from what i can tell when reserching this turbo and how the system works... I can't see much gain to be had. IN fact there are a few people on here that have hollowed out there DPF's and the only thing that seems to have changed is more soot and mot failures and a check engine light.

i think ill leave it at that as i could fill the site with examples.

why are you so annoyed youre post is suggestive that this can be done for a few pounds given the possible issues you can get some may copy this and end up with serious issues. im all for youre experiment i dont believe dpfs make any difference that its just more money the owner has to pay but clearly deletions arent as simple as they look and when it goes wrong the company that did it want nothing to do with you neither do the dealers.

it should also be noted if you travel abroad ie germany you must get a level 4 emission sticker with the dpf removed you wont hit that level 4 meaning in many cities you cannot enter with youre vehicle france belgium italy norway etc have all followed suit.

[Angus72]

Hi every one just to let you know of my exsperance of having my dpf removed. Its been a mounth since I had this done got the soft wear from celtic tuning the only people I use and the dpf core removed by longlife exsuast they can do the soft wear but been using celtic for 3 years and no probs with re map. Right the car drives better than ever good on pickup and the fuel gaines have gone up I drive about 50 miles to and from work I was averaging 46 mpg and now I have 54mpg which is good but its not cheap £120 for the soft wear £350 for the exsuast I could of got the dpf redone for that but for me it was the fuel gains I was after so my advice for any one wonting to do this is do your resurch and what do you want your car to do. And if you have it done as the focus has the cat and dpf in one unit as of january its illeagal to remove the cat so the housing has to be there.

[jeebowhite]

from sinspeed dpf removals

Will this cause me to fail an MOT?

Not with us! It is not illegal to remove the DPF and this can be confirmed by VOSA.

Not according to my investigations with the DfT!

ajt, if you are looking to do the drill out on DPF, please bare in mind that the new MOT tests come into play soon and they are much more stringent, and arent just a quick "yep, the exhaust pipe is still there", Please check back to my thread on "DPFRemoval... I wonder" I would strongly advise that you read it through before deciding anything...

Bare in mind that even your experiments, mean that if your car is on a public road, VOSA have the right to do a random test on your vehicle, these road side tests are becoming more and more prudent, and apparent, and I would say that all it takes is once, for them to catch you, declare your car modified (illegally as my previous investigations are seen) and then they stick it to you.

Im certainly not trying to put you off, and if you do play and test, then all the best to you, but I strongly advise that you reverse anything you do before hitting the pulic roads! you dont want to be the first person to be caught out (on this forum)

[artscot79]

thats my point jeebo its not illegal not to have a dpf but its illegal to tamper with the emission system yet these companies state its legal but its not

[ajt]

@artscot

It looks like your post is a promotional advet from some company scaremongering people into parting with hard earnt cash. I still don't see you supplying any facts to backup your hearsay. This does not mean you are not right, it just means a bit of proof wouldn't go a miss.

@jeebowhite

I think i found the relevant thread that you are talking about and the crucial paragraph from VOSA(?)

<Quote>

Under Regulation 61A of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, it is an offence to use a car on the road that has been modified and, as a result of the modification, does not meet the emissions requirement that applied to it when new. This is likely to be the case if a diesel particulate filter is removed. A copy of Regulation 61A is attached for information

</Quote>(likely = opinion)

I read this to mean as long as the smoke test is below 1.5/m (which is the regulation) after removing the DPF then it's legal.

Anyway back to my testing. Had pressure sensor plug disconnected for a couple of days and still no engine light!

So I think I am going to stick a 15K pot across the senor plug, and try to simulate a clogged dpf, to force a regen. As I said before, for all I know my car has already been D2pfed (see what I did there->ddpfed-> de DPFed (groan)).

[artscot79]

as said those qoutes are from various forums audi and seat real owners who thought it was as simple as someone said it was and had companies do the job to be hit with bigger bills and big headaches search other forums youreself the proof is all there for me thats proof enough that others have had the issues.as i said the info is in the cars ecu and even the rpo companies have had difficulty removing that info from the ecu to prevent cars having the above issue

second the new mot law will come in with the diesel testing to which the car must hit its euro regulation removing the dpf means it wont so the car will fail even if its below the 1.5/m it wont matter as the tester will now have to check the dpf and the machine will force a regen to test.

end of the day its up to you and who else what they do but dont insinuate i make up this info as i dont i like to make sure people are aware of the problem they could have if they were to copy what you have done it may take a few months but we wil see what the outcome is if it works fantastic if it doesnt you were given the info but it can take a few months as it did with some on the other forums for issues to start if in a few months all is well then youre test is a success.sorry you dont like some peoples opinion obvious by how ratty you respond with insinuations and accusations because the info doesnt support youre theory if you want the proof check the forums youreself google it as i did read the info i may be wrong but thats the whole point of a forum.

[ajt]

@artscot

Sorry you feel that I am insinuating you are making it up, but you still don't post a single link to a first hand bad experience (I'm sure there must be some peolple who have had bad experiences and I don't doubt this for one second). My problem with your posts is that you seem to feel you know the facts. How do you know the facts? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE put a link up to any thing on a reliable site (VOSA would be good) that states it is illegal to remove a dpf (again I will state that at this point I am not thinking of touching the ECU (whole point of my testing))

The only thing I found was this

http://motforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=public&action=display&thread=1274

Which makes me smile as my car is an 07, so subject to the higher regs of 3.0m-1 ( I passed this month with a reading of 0.84). But even that site doesn't point to a gorevnment site for validity, but if I want to listen to hear say about MOT regs, then I think I would put more wait into some from an MOT site.

You then go on to state that you are just warning people what could happen if they copy what I have done.

What do you think I have done? Let me make it simple. I have un plugged the differntial pressure sensor, to try to get some sort of error in the DTC.

I started this post to try any get to some facts about DPF and its removal. I hoped it would go along the lines of

I tried the following and this happend.....

ANOther poster: I tried it too, but this happend....

I didn't expect to be told I was involved in criminal activity.

Please don't come back with "wind your neck in", I find that very insulting. Justy put a worthy link to a post where your mouth is, showing the new MOT regs, specifically DPF changes.

[artscot79]

i am not saying that right now its ilegal to remove the dpf ,its down to point of view ...when the new m.o.t regs come in it will, it is however ilegal to tamper with emission related equipment which changes a cars tax band vosa have a dim view which was posted by another member as he stated they dont care that the emissions are ok the point is the car sits in that band due to the dpf remove that you change the band .as far as vosa are concerned its tampering theres not much more than that give them a phone.

as stated my friend has an m.o.t station testing cars lorries and motorbikes and has been to the seminar where sykes avant will be giving stations new diesel test equipment similar to a petrol so when that happens they will tell if a dpf is there and working.the law is said to be changing making it ilegal to remove a dpf like other countries

as for the qoues from forums there are hundreds of posts not 1 from 1 person as i said a dpf delete is easy the hard part that causes issues is down to the map used many dont have all the code removed ..

in the end we agree to disagree on the subject as said if you want the proof google it the issue is youre title suggests to some that they can delete there dpf for sub 1.00 without touching the ecu fact is code must be removed as the sensors are all linked many wont read it all just copy what you do thinking they can save hundreds thats my issue . at present if you drive in certain countries ie take the car abroad if you are not euro 4 compliant you cant drive in certain cities

[ajt]

@artscot

There you go again....

<quote> artscot79

"in the end we agree to disagree..."

</quote>

Who told you that. I didn't. :)