Bloomin Dpf Regeneration

[mitch84]

Hi All,

Just to share my DPF experience (or lack of!). I haved owned a 58 reg 1.6 TDCi DPF Focus for almost a year, and am on track for doing 10,000 miles. I do mainly short journeys, five miles each way to/from work, and go on the motorway at least once, often two or three times a month, for journeys of at least 30 mins, and often from Rochdale to Barnsley (around 50 miles/1 hour of motorway). I try to make sure I drive sensibly on short journeys; dropping down gear as soon as the engine feels laboured, not letting it drop below 1,500 RPM. Obviously on the motorway I'm in 5th doing 70+, so over 2,000 RPM.

I realise it's relatively early days yet, but I've not had a single problem with the DPF (or indeed the car itself). I'm sure many people would say that my driving needs don't warrant a diesel, but I love the low tax, power and torque that it offers, and with that in mind, I feel that 10k/year is justifiable. I also just prefer the way that diesels drive, and always have done really.

I read these DPF horror stories and hope that they never affect me! And yes, I do plan on getting rid of the car before the 75K replacement!

I'd be interested if anyone has any thoughts on this; have I just been lucky and am I likely to be caught out soon, or do my frequent motorway trips and DPF-friendly town driving really make all the difference?

Jon

60 plate 1.6tdci here and I do more or less the same mileage as you , short journey to work on minor roads (12miles each way) and perhaps go on the motorways 1 or 2 times a month , still yet to encounter a problem with it.

If everyone one was just lucky with there DPF's having no problems I think you would see a lot more posts about problems on here?

[artscot79]

just google dpf mate lol if you believe that there are many dpf posts and discussions on here the fact is it will happen its just a question of when even 5th gear did a segment about them on all cars and its an issue proving to be a headache for all manufacturers theres no set mileage or timescale but even ford tell you now if you do short trips a diesel with a dpf is not for you unless you take it on the motorway for 20minutes at a constant speed at 3k revs monthly.

[mitch84]

ok i googled and it does seem a problem for some , I just hope I don't get any problem.

By the way if I was to take my car for a spin on a motorway to clear/start a regen process do I have to go at a certain speed In higher revs ?

[artscot79]

high revs at any speed i believe its 3000rpm which is high in a diesel maybe some others have other ways of doing it im not sure but short trips without doing this will clog it up eventually

[mitch84]

high revs at any speed i believe its 3000rpm which is high in a diesel maybe some others have other ways of doing it im not sure but short trips without doing this will clog it up eventually

thanks , am I correct in thinking that doing the above or normal motorway driving will do a passive regeneration? and that the only time you get a active regeneration is when the dpf reaches a certain soot level in the dpf if the driver has only done shorter journeys with the dpf not being able to do the passive regen?

hope that makes sense

[artscot79]

passive regen is when the exhaust gets hot enough and automaticly activates the regen process like on a motorway

active is when the soot level gets too high and the ecu advances the timing to increase exhaust temperature however as soon as you stop start slow down this process is interupted and youl get the mil light.

if you have 6 gears the problems worse as the revs are too low harsh driving is required an italian tune up so to speak

the aa has stated that even cars doing motorway miles regularly are failing and in there words if you do less than 12k a year forget a diesel the higher purchase price added to the high cost of diesel coupled with the cost of eloys fluid etc etc the diesel works out dearer than a petrol wiping out the tax and mpg savings.

[NorthSussex]

passive regen is when the exhaust gets hot enough and automaticly activates the regen process like on a motorway

active is when the soot level gets too high and the ecu advances the timing to increase exhaust temperature however as soon as you stop start slow down this process is interupted and youl get the mil light.

if you have 6 gears the problems worse as the revs are too low harsh driving is required an italian tune up so to speak

the aa has stated that even cars doing motorway miles regularly are failing and in there words if you do less than 12k a year forget a diesel the higher purchase price added to the high cost of diesel coupled with the cost of eloys fluid etc etc the diesel works out dearer than a petrol wiping out the tax and mpg savings.

Nice explanation. Something we should all keep in mind when we next change our car.

[mitch84]

passive regen is when the exhaust gets hot enough and automaticly activates the regen process like on a motorway

active is when the soot level gets too high and the ecu advances the timing to increase exhaust temperature however as soon as you stop start slow down this process is interupted and youl get the mil light.

if you have 6 gears the problems worse as the revs are too low harsh driving is required an italian tune up so to speak

the aa has stated that even cars doing motorway miles regularly are failing and in there words if you do less than 12k a year forget a diesel the higher purchase price added to the high cost of diesel coupled with the cost of eloys fluid etc etc the diesel works out dearer than a petrol wiping out the tax and mpg savings.

I see , so if all going well and the dpf works as it should and the driver does a bit of motorway driving at least once or twice a month there should be no need for the car to do a active regeneration.

also there clearly is a problem with them if they are failing for people who do a lot of motorway driving , surely that calls for a recall?

thanks arthur

[artscot79]

there wont be any recalls the cost for one would bankrupt car companies and second its not the companies who make the dpf or want to implement it its the eu who made that decision.no dpf has a life cycle attatched to it they can fail at any time motorway driving or not and the manufacturers can do nothing about it it is used if it failed within 6 months maybe they would replace it ,the fact is its a waste of money for you guys who own diesels its a hassle and its flawed technology but the eu want it so the manufacturers have no choice. this is the reason companies are now moving away from diesel and making small turbo charged engines like fords 1.0litre ecoboost engine smaller more economical with the same power as the larger 1.6 with cheaper tax etc etc as diesels are just a nightmare nissan for example have taken a huge hit with dpf issues as have every make.

dpf removal companies are popping up everywhere but be carefull as theres good ones and bad ones,some do the job right some dont and the law is still a very grey area around the removal of them and its said the mot will change to check the dpf is in place and these companies will laugh at the end of the day they did what you asked them to do they didnt force you or say you have to so youre liable not them

[jg321]

I was under the impression that the car will do an active regeneration anyway regardless of the soot loading, every 500 miles or so. The behaviour of my car would certainly suggest that, e.g. even after a 1 hour motorway drive at 2,500+ RPM, the following day, on a short journey on a cold day, the engine temp will rise quickly and the engine fan will come on, and stay on for a few mins after the engine is turned off.

Always seems to do this around the same mileage for me too, when in other very similar circumstances (i.e. motorway journey before, same short journey following day, and no high temp/fan) everything seems 'normal'.

I could well be wrong on this. I think a lack of understanding is a big issue with these modern diesels, and I honestly believe that if the circumstances are right, they won't be a problem (until the 75k service of course!).

[mitch84]

Hi Guys

I arrived at work today after roughly a 12 mile trip on minor roads with the odd traffic lights and roundabouts mainly driving at 30mph -40mph , when I turned my engine off I could here my engine fans running , I'm guessing this was an Active regeneration but how would I know if it completed or not, do the fans indicate the regen has completed?

Anyway as I was unsure and not having done a long run for a while I decided to head home on the motorway , driving at 70mph and about 2200revs , I'm hoping this was enough to start a passive regen to burn off any soot , but I could not tell.

cheers

Mitch

[ajt]

........

the law is still a very grey area around the removal of them and its said the mot will change to check the dpf is in place

......

and off you go again!

IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO REMOVE A DPF (no grey area), an MOT will fail if to much soot is coming out the back, not because the DPF has been removed. Check the following link

http://www.dyno-tuni...ovalFailMOT.htm

As for your clairvoyance regarding "its said" (yeah by you) pending changes to the MOT please please please please post a link to some where that verifies that statement. If you can't could you at least stop repeating it.

[STEADS]

Well within the next couple of weeks i should be able to give you all feedback on having the dpf removed from the the ecu and just an empty dpf box fitted as i,ve just received mine back today from ecuflash got a few more jobs to do on car before i can run it but with just the empty box before ecu was done it would bring up dpf codes had it idleing on and off all day and no codes smoke wise as in black smoke i,d say less on blipping it but like i say will keep you all informed over the coming weeks lets put this to bed once and for all it either works or it dont .and if it does could save yers hundreds .

[Doctor Dac]

Hi, I have just had to have my DPF replaced as well as the sensors which cost me £1,200 ! The only indications were a drop in fuel consumption and the engine fan staying on every time I stopped. I have only done 56,000 miles and for the last year my mileage has gone up to 12,000 a year of which at least half of that is motorway driving at 70 mph and 2,200 rpm so I was most annoyed that the DPF etc needed replacing. When I bought the car with only 17 miles on it, I was told that the DPF needs replacing at 80,000 miles but I wasn't informed about driving at 3,000 rpm for a constant 9 minutes until this problem occurred. I even had a forced regeneration carried out by my local Ford garage about six months ago and even then I wasn't told about driving at high revs to clean out the DPF. So as mentioned elsewhere, any savings in cheaper road tax and higher mpg over the years have been wiped out by this latest problem. So diesels are not as beneficial as first thought and I will never buy another one. Having said that, the new petrol engines are almost as economical as earlier diesels (new diesels are also more economical than older ones). So I would advise anyone with a diesel to go for a drive on the motorway in a lowish gear (4th rather than 5th - to get the high revs) at least once a month to try and maintain the DPF in a reasonably condition.

[MONDEO TXS 2.2]

You'll never completely clean out a dpf by any type of driving - regeneration is the burning of accumulated soot deposits & turning them into ash, which eventually clogs the dpf

[simcor]

I don't agree with this active and passive regeneration that people keep talking about, on a long run if the filter gets hot enough yes it will burn off some of the soot naturally.

But the electronics of the car will ensure an active regeneration happens as needed depending on the soot accumulation and driving style, the most important thing to know is when an active regeneration is happening and going for a long run at a constant speed preferably on a motorway until the regeneration has completed.

Failed regenerations is the biggest cause of DPF failure in my opinion. You need to know when and how often an active regeneration takes place and ensure it completes as often as possible.

Newer cars often have a light that tells you a regeneration is needed and it is suggested when this light comes on to take it for a long run on the motorway, shame Ford didn't think to add this to the earlier Focus with the DPF.

[MONDEO TXS 2.2]

Passive, active & forced regenerations are the indisputable facts of a dpf's existence - they are not opinions or hearsay.

I would agree that failed regenerations are the 2nd biggest cause of dpf failure - the 1st being incorrect use of the vehicle i.e. excessive short journeys which are the precursor to failed regenerations

[simcor]

Passive, active & forced regenerations are the indisputable facts of a dpf's existence - they are not opinions or hearsay.

I would agree that failed regenerations are the 2nd biggest cause of dpf failure - the 1st being incorrect use of the vehicle i.e. excessive short journeys which are the precursor to failed regenerations

I would still like to see some actual evidence to back up this passive regeneration theory, the only place I see this mentioned is on forums and sites like the AA, there is absolutely nothing in mu owners manual about the DPF and it's use at all. Admittedly mine was one of the early DPF fitted cars before too much was known about them.

To burn the soot off the filter needs to get up to 600-650º ideally and in normal use even at speed the filter temperature never gets hot enough to do so, hence why the makers in built extra ways to achieve the temperature required, such as altering the injector timing, electric heating elements in some vehicle, use of additives or coated DPF's etc etc to ensure the temperature is sufficiently raised high enough to burn off the accumulated soot.

[MONDEO TXS 2.2]

My 2014 TXS manual states what I have recounted here, passive regeneration is exactly that, the dpf is regenerated with no input from any external source, active regeneration is the ecu deciding to intervene, based on info received from the dpf sensor & where passive regeneration has previously failed

Forced regeneration is of course the last resort & normally it's a dealer job

[TomsFocus]

The additive is supposed to allow the soot to burn at a lower temp by adding iron and stuff to it (the reason you get rusty coloured ash), you're still looking for ~500c though (the actual temp isn't published anywhere that I can see). Coated DPFs allow a burn lower than that, around 450c roughly.

It just doesn't get this hot in the Focus even if you drive at 70 for hours though. If you make the choice to drive it hard, you can get the temp high enough just. The active regens are supposed to be a 'fail safe' rather than to be relied on due to the extra fuel used and heat produced, with the DPF being in the engine bay on the DV6 it's bound to cause heat related issues eventually, at least its underneath on the 2.0 so only likely to catch leaves alight when you park.

They also start at the most random times, I've had a few start in town, DPF mapping wasn't done well on these imo and is another of the faults of the DV6. Plus the fact they cant accurately detect soot or ash loading where other cars can - VW for example can tell you a percentage of soot loading and show this with dash lights, Ford can't even tell you this with IDS!!

[MONDEO TXS 2.2]

DPF's have improved considerably since 2006, a Catalysed DPF needs typically only 250C to initiate regeneration

[MONDEO TXS 2.2]

Ford's Ceramic DPF has been developed to last at least 200,000 km

[iantt]

The additive is supposed to allow the soot to burn at a lower temp by adding iron and stuff to it (the reason you get rusty coloured ash), you're still looking for ~500c though (the actual temp isn't published anywhere that I can see). Coated DPFs allow a burn lower than that, around 450c roughly.

It just doesn't get this hot in the Focus even if you drive at 70 for hours though. If you make the choice to drive it hard, you can get the temp high enough just. The active regens are supposed to be a 'fail safe' rather than to be relied on due to the extra fuel used and heat produced, with the DPF being in the engine bay on the DV6 it's bound to cause heat related issues eventually, at least its underneath on the 2.0 so only likely to catch leaves alight when you park.

They also start at the most random times, I've had a few start in town, DPF mapping wasn't done well on these imo and is another of the faults of the DV6. Plus the fact they cant accurately detect soot or ash loading where other cars can - VW for example can tell you a percentage of soot loading and show this with dash lights, Ford can't even tell you this with IDS!!

Ids does show soot loading.

[simcor]

Ids does show soot loading.

If it does I would like to know where it shows it as I haven't found it. A error code is logged when it's 75% full. It also gives an estimated mileage until it is full of ash but that depends if it has been reset at any point.

[iantt]

Depends what ids your using? Standard or etis ids or fdrs?