Leaking Pipe Identification - Above Clutch Pedal

[jonathan_phang]

Hi all,

Unfortunately, my first proper post is going to have to be a problem one :( Anyway, bought a second hand Focus Ghia Mk2 for my wife a few weeks back. It hadnt really been driven properly since then as we were sorting out insurance etc, but yeaterday I noticed some fluid in the drivers footwell.

I traced it back, and after removing the side trim of the centre console, I (awkwardly) got a look at the pipes and electrics that are above the pedals. There seems to be a slow leak coming from the join a particualr pipe. I've added two pictures, one showing where it is in relation to the clutch pedal and one showing the join a bit more.

Can anyone identify this pipe for me? Click for larger versions:

Two reasons. First, I recently had the car put into Halfords Auto Centre to perform an airconditioning service, as it wasnt working when we bought the car. I hadn't noticed any discharge when we bought the car, test drove it, collected it etc, so I'm wondering if this is a leak due to the coolant/etc that had been replaced for the AC service.

I left something under it overnight, and nothing, so only seems to leak when under pressure. What I haven't tried is drivng it but without using the air conditioning, so will try that later. Finally, the pipe is hot to touch when I discovered the leak, so it seems like its something to do with the heating and cooling system...

Secondly, any ideas about stopping the leak? It doesn't seem to be a nut that I can tighten, but i did notice an adjacent pipe had a black plastic part over its join - does that help to hold it together?

Any ideas on all the above would be great and appreciated.

Many thanks

Jonny

[STEADS]

Heater matrix or air con pipe does it get hot when car running if not its the air con i think the rubber ones are for the heater matrix althougth i have seen ally ones fitteed to some cars if it is the air con and you can live without it i,d just get it drained

[Stoney871]

Heater matrix pipe.

[jonathan_phang]

Thanks for the replies. Well, took it for a drive for a few minutes without the aircon, and nothing coming off it when I checked after, though it was only a few minutes. it did get hot, so does seem like the heater matrix pipe.

What actually is flowing through this pipe? Would it be coolant from the reservoir in the engine bay? And what is it used for? If its nothing to do with the airconditioning, then wont bother taking it back to the garage that did the aircon service, and maybe see if I can seal the join somehow.

JP

[STEADS]

yes its coolant so would need to be replaced have you noticed the level go down in the expansion tank will lead to you having no heater in the winter and possible other problems if you leave it and you loose to much coolant i.e head gasket so act now inexpensive cure could save a bigger bill later on

[artscot79]

thats a potentialy expensive job get it bk to the garage asap for repair the aircon may have just been low or may have a leak use the aircon and see if it lasts it

[jonathan_phang]

yes its coolant so would need to be replaced have you noticed the level go down in the expansion tank will lead to you having no heater in the winter and possible other problems if you leave it and you loose to much coolant i.e head gasket so act now inexpensive cure could save a bigger bill later on

Level is still within the mix/max lines and has been driven for about a week I'd say, and the leak isnt a heavy one by any means - though I definitely know its a problem to be dealt with.

thats a potentialy expensive job get it bk to the garage asap for repair the aircon may have just been low or may have a leak use the aircon and see if it lasts it

Would it really be that expensive to fix that pipe? I'm guessing that they would want something to take it out etc. which seems like it would be labour intensive...

Cars, gotta love them!!!

JP

[artscot79]

its under pressure so 1 the cooling system relies on pressure it raises the boiling point of the coolant if theres a leak even small the pressure will never build up enough add to that the pressure can force the split open the heater wont work properly and theres electrical wiring also you have moisture getting into the car id lift the driver side carpet to check if its wet and if theres rust .

dependant on what you paid you still have by law a 3month warranty on the car so dont wait around take it back or you could face bills beyond 600 quid shortly

[jonathan_phang]

its under pressure so 1 the cooling system relies on pressure it raises the boiling point of the coolant if theres a leak even small the pressure will never build up enough add to that the pressure can force the split open the heater wont work properly and theres electrical wiring also you have moisture getting into the car id lift the driver side carpet to check if its wet and if theres rust . dependant on what you paid you still have by law a 3month warranty on the car so dont wait around take it back or you could face bills beyond 600 quid shortly

Blimey that doesn't sound good. We paid £3100 for the car 2 weeks ago. That came with a 6 month third party warranty with a company called Auto Protect, and covers mechanical breakdown of listed items (of which the heater matrix is on there, but not explicitly pipework related to the heating system).

I'll have a look around to see what the legislation is this 3 month warranty that they have to give different to the above. I can see the dealer saying they dont have to cover it, and I can see the third party provided just saying that its not covered.

This is going to be fun :(

JP

[STEADS]

the leak will be covered on your normal warranty through the garage those extra warranties are not worth the paper there written on always a get out clause ie because its connected to a part that isnt covered had this prob on my range rover warranty .

[stef123]

That's a pipe for the a/c, the 2 rubber ones behind it are for the matrix. I have never come across alloy pipes for a heater matrix

What colour is the leaking liquid?

can you get a better pic of the part circled in red?

[artscot79]

ill pop the cover off when i get home and have a look at this pipe and see where it goes

[artscot79]

steffs right aircon pipe from the drier to the evaporator which can be just as expensive as it will need new aircon pipes fitted the sysyem tested and flushed and refilled providing everything else is okay

[jonathan_phang]

the leak will be covered on your normal warranty through the garage those extra warranties are not worth the paper there written on always a get out clause ie because its connected to a part that isnt covered had this prob on my range rover warranty .

Right, so the 'normal' warranty you talk about is the 3 month one that car dealers have to provide by law? I think this is always going to be a tricky thing, so just want to make sure of what I can go back and say is the dealer liability - googling brings up so many different opinions on the matter :(

That's a pipe for the a/c, the 2 rubber ones behind it are for the matrix. I have never come across alloy pipes for a heater matrix. What colour is the leaking liquid? can you get a better pic of the part circled in red?

Makes more sense as it would explain why I never noticed anything there before, as we only got the air con service done on Tuesday. Have to say that I'm not 100% sure of the colour. Will have to give it a drive with the AC on see what comes out. I would say its quite a pale/light colour though. Will also try and contort myself to get a better pic of the join.

steffs right aircon pipe from the drier to the evaporator which can be just as expensive as it will need new aircon pipes fitted the sysyem tested and flushed and refilled providing everything else is okay

Well, that sounds like its going to be quite labour intensive :( Going to try and gather any information regarding what I can and cant say to the dealer and see if I can get him to cover any costs, as it was sold with functioning AC, and even though I dont mind paying for a regas, if the pipework fundamentally doesnt allow it to work properly then surely that must be something they are liable for?

Really appreciate the help though - much appreciated.

Jonny

[artscot79]

by law dealers must supply a 3mnth warranty with the car i know as a dealer i know had to fit a new engine to a car.

its covered under the sale of goods act any citizens advice can tell you this it also shows that a leak test wasnt done during the aircon service i advise calling the dealer first thing a.m and take it from there but you have to do it now

[jonathan_phang]

Just been reading about the Sale of Goods Act just now (Yes, so rock and roll). I may give the Halfords Auto Centre a call too, to see what sort of costs would be involved, so that I can give that as a figure to the dealer. He might be ok about it and then I can proceed. As its in within the 3 months, he'll have to prove that the fault didn't exist at the time of sale, which will be tough, seeing as the airconditioning wasnt cold/working ie. No refridgerant or system oil = no leaks possible.

I definitely want it fixed somewhere independant, in case his preferred fixer just does a bodge job to stop the leak, without properly fixing it. And if all else fails, it was bought on wifes credit card, so can try to claim from them it all turns a bit ugly. Let see how much of a nice chap the dealer actually is...

[artscot79]

this type of job needs done by either ford or a aircon specialist not Halfords they dont have a clue ford will put a leak detection dye in the system then check under uv light for the leak and replace whatever is causing the leak replace and retest the system before filling it up

[johnH]

take it back to where you bought it and let them sort it out...as people have mentioned the car will be under warranty...dont pay anything for them to do this work, its their problem.

by taking elsewhere you could be invalidating this. let them worry about it.

if they, for some reason refuse, you can legally take the car back state "its not fit for purpose" and get a full refund.

EDIT - further to last i agree that this is an aircon pipe...its looks like the rest of them in the engine bay. the coolant pipes are the black rubber ones. but looking closely at the second picture it looks as though a rubber seal is missing.

EDIT 2 - by any chance the leak that you mentioned, was it just a drip? if you can do a sniff test on the parts its landing on...i would dare say its just condensation

[jonathan_phang]

I only suggested them Halfords Autocentre (not the main stores, but garage franchise), as thats where the aircon service was done (and even then I only went there as they were the preferred fixer for the third party warranty firm). They did say that they placed UV dye in as well as part of the leak test, but looks like they didnt run/pressurise the system enough to see it. However they did say that it might take a bit of time for the leak to manifest, and if it did, then they would look at it again and refill anything need free of charge. I've tried to contact my local Ford and also Halfords Autocentre, but everyone seems to be MIA for the BH.

I kind of want to take it to some independent place, as I dont just want him to take it to some garage he knows and they might just do a quick fix job. Not sure if I am able to insist on where the repair is to be done. Will have to try and get in touch with the dealer again later, or at least tomorrow morning. Would be easiest to just say you take it, but would ideally like to give it back to my local ford once he has agreed to pay. Feel I am in a better position now, after readin up on my rights, just need to actually get through to him now.

[uros]

I have exactly the same leaking pipe problem on my 2005 Focus. A drop every few seconds. I took it to the garage assuming they would only replace the plastic ring and any inside seal. They called me back and said the heater matrix needs to be replaced as well for £500 as it is apparently leaking!!!!! I am not sure if I should believe them as the only leak I saw was from that pipe and it coresponded to the amount of coolant being lost - aboult half a litre per hour.

Did you manage to get your car fixed? What needed replacing and how much did it cost? This informatin will be really useful tomorow when I am ging to the garage.

Thank you!

[Ebbs]

Hi

I've been doing a lot of reading about this as my girlfriends focus has the exact same problem .

The pics you have posted are slightly different to mine , 54 plate 1.6 ghia

After spending all of Sunday laying on my back with my head in the footwell it seems that the joint that is leaking on hers is definitely part of the heating/water system , I have slightly pulled this apart and it is the same colour as the water in the expansion tank .

Being a gas man and this joint looking like many on boilers I work on I decided to have a go .

I began by putting the clip back on , nope ! I slightly opened up the joint and wrapped it in PTFE and putting the clip back on , better but nope !

I then split it and wrapped more PTFE and a heat/water resistant , far better but a tiny leak .

More ready and I can across below ( I did try to post a link but stupid iPad won't show it )

I'm going to give this a go again ! Hope this helps

Chris

"I have the same problem. I bought new O-rings and clips from my dealer - they were in stock and cost about £12.

I created a platform level with the car sill, using a board and bricks, so I could lie through the open car door, with my left shoulder in the footwell. Using a torch I was able to look up to the left of the clutch pedal to see the pipe joint and remove the clip. Just rotate the clip and spring it open with a screw driver.

I pulled back the pipe from the engine side of the bulkhead to separate the joint.

The old O-ring looked as if it had been trapped when originally assembled, and was split when I removed it.

Replace the O-ring in the internal groove in the end of the pipe which goes through the bulkhead.

Add some silicone grease, soap or washing up liquid as a lubricant, then try to get the joint back together without trapping the O-ring. It may help to have a friend work the pipe from the engine side whilst you try to line it up with the pipe from the matrix. Difficult! If they won't line up, remove the plastic spacer from between the heater and air con pipes, inside the car, where the pipes come through the bulkhead. The spacer should ping out if you fiddle it away from the plastic moulding through which the pipes are passed, using with a screw driver. This will give the pipes more movement to get them aligned. Finally replace the plastic clip.

I did all this - it took most of a day - only to find the joint still leaks. I hope you have better luck than I did. I'll be trying again later in the week and may add some silicone sealant this time. This is a pig of a job - even worse than replacing the clutch return spring! Good luck! "

[Ebbs]

Christ , I've just noticed the date of the post !

Sorry for the slooooow response , how'd you get on with this .

Chri

[uros]

Hi Chris

Thank you for sharing this. Yes it s a late reply but very detailed one.

So, I had the same problem and didn't even try to fix it myself as it is in such an awkward position and it would probably still leak after my repair:)

I thought I rather take it to a garage and pay £50 or so to get it fixed properly. It was only a seal after all. I took my Focus to the garage and later that day got a phone call saying that the leak was from the heating matrix which now needs replacing at a cost of £500!!! I was suspicious and went there the next morning to see the car completely stripped off from steering wheel down all the way to the back seats. Mechanic explained to me that as soon as they tried to pull the two pipes apart the bottom pipe broke off from the heating matrix in a way that it couldn't be reattached because it is an integral part of the matrix. Apparently the reason why this area was so fragile was that some of the leaking fluid was traveling/sliding down the pipe towards the heating matrix where it was collecting and corroding the matrix hence the pipe broke off easily. Mechanic showed me the old matrix and it was corroded in that top corner so I just had to accept this and pay £600.

I am still not sure if they broke the pipe/matrix because they were just too rough. Nobody else posted this happening to them...

From my experience I can only say fix it sooner rather than later before this leak stars corroding more expensive bits of the car.

Uros

[charlie-wp]

Hi Guys, I know this thread is quite old, sorry for reviving it, however I think I might have the same issue as uros. My car has been using about between 250ml and 500ml from the resivoir tank under the bonnet and I took it to the local radiator guys who said I def have a leak as they couldn't build any pressure via my resivoir bottle(Wow i know I have a leak guys). Well, My car has just come back from Ford after having done a major service but there was only water and no coolant. I told them about the leak but they just said its due to the age of my car(hogwash!) My buddy reckoned, drain the water, add some coolant then we see where it leaks as coolant leaves a stain. while we trying to find the drain plug on my focus, i saw the water dripping out and long story short we found it to come from inside driver footwell. We stripped the 1 cover off and found the mat was soaking wet and saw the rust marks.

Below are some pics from the driver footwell area looking towards the center console. Now my issue is, 1stly, is this a DIY job or not, 2ndly, if its not just the pipe that needs repairing and the actual heater radiator/matrix, how do this get removed?

Top right is a small blue arrow and I believe water is leaking down from this pipe as the screw just below it is rusted slightly. The text came out a bit small :-$

The resulting rust from what i think is the heater radiator/Matrix

Any help would be appreciated guys.

Thanks

[nazsky786]

Yes these pipes are AC pipes. The leaking comes from the black O rings. You need to replace them. Have Ford do it as it's a lot of work to get right. They won't charge to much.