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Going To Court For Speeding. Advise Please


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#1 Phil Griff

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 08:12 PM

Before I get comments about how I deserve it, I appreciate speeding isn't the best thing to do, but it's been done, and now just looking for some advise.

I am 19, so still within my first 2 years of driving so if I get 6 points my licence will be revoked.

So last month I was pulled over on the M5 at 10pm for speeding. The officer was a nice enough bloke, and talked me through it. In the car, all he said was he reached 100mph catching up to me.

I said yes, I was speeding, and he then went on to say I was being reported and I would likely get court papers through, this has since happened today.

The court are prosecuting me for going in excess of 70mph on a motorway. This part is correct. In the witness statement, the police officer has said I was caught driving in excess of 100mph. This is incorrect. I said early HE did that speed to catch up with me, and I honestly didn't go above 95mph.
Now the first question is, do I plead guilty? Yes, I am guilty to speeding, but not the alleged speed. There is nothing about an average speed, although I think it will be less than 90. If it is less than 90, I can qualify for only 3 points (I will be overjoy if this is the case).

There is also some justification as to why I hit 95; I know it is not an excuse, but this might help me. I was sat in the middle lane, about to overtake the car in front (at around 85-90 mph). There was a car in the fast lane (the unmarked car) matching my speed. I then slowed down to a maximum of 80 to let them overtake me, but they didn't. Thus, I accelerated going out in the fast lane to get past the car (this is where I hit 95) as otherwise I would have had to brake relativity hard, which I would have consider to be more unsafe.

I want to see the video which will show the police car's speed so I can build my case accordingly, can I see the evidence if I plead guilty?

How do I go about claiming the police story is incorrect, and getting the point across that I did't do 100, but the police car did?

The punishments I will get is a fine, likely to be around £300, and either 3-6 points or a 7 -56 day ban. If I get 3 points, that is end of story, if I get 6 points, my license would be revoked meaning I would have to do both parts of my test again. This will probably take a month at best to reapply for a provisional, and then book into both tests.
If I have a ban, I receive no points, so might seem the better option, however, both are like a ban to me.
Insurance wise, 6 points is about an other £100 a year so not too fussed, however a ban means my insurance will roughly double (around £1000 more!).
If you were in my situation, what would you try and go for?

If it helps, I need my car for work as I do around 20k miles a year, possibly could use this to try and hold onto my licence also?

Many thanks in advance

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#2 btmaldon

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 08:51 PM

Considering your speedo is likely to have overstated your speed by 6 or 7mph (every Ford I have owned has overstated the speed by 5mph at 80mph) I would say that you were driving at under 90mph. The officer drove at up to 100mph to catch you up. If you had been driving in excess of 100mph he would never have caught you up.

I would say that you admit to speeding but did not reach 90mph. You can say the police officer informed you that he was driving at up to 100mph to catch you up. If you saw him catching you up you may want to point out he was closing on you at 15 to 20mph otherwise he would have taken a very long time.

It sounds to me that he hasn't got your speed logged but only his own closing speed which may or may not be on video. There is no evidence to say what speed you were doing.

#3 Stoney871

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 09:13 PM

Unfortunately you're in the !Removed!.
Your age and inexperience will be taken into consideration
If you plead guilty then video evidence is moot.
You plead guilty and they will adjourn for representations from a solicitor.
Sentencing or punishment would likely be decided at a later date.
If they accept the speed as stated by the officer who pulled you then you will get a ban, find and costs.
If you plead not guilty then they will consider evidence and make a judgement on that basis.
If they find you guilty then the penalty will be higher.
As well as the ban they will levy a higher fine and costs.
The fact that you have been directly referred to court for prosecution, rather than being offered points and a fine or a speed awareness course for what I assume was a first offence, then it is certain that they consider that the speed, manner of your driving was such that a FPN was not relevant or suitable in your case.
The best thing I can suggest is that you have a consultation with a solicitor and be lead by their guidance.
I believe free legal advice from a solicitor is still available and if you are able to get a consultation them I highly recommend you heed their advice and follow it.
.

#4 TDCiST

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 11:53 PM


I believe prosecution for banning etc starts at 93mph... I'm sure stoney wil correct me if I am wrong.

Get a solicitor, and one that knows his traffic law, he may be able to help you enough to get away with a leaner sentence... Like 5 points.. So u get to keep ur license but have no more chances. If he's really good, may get 3...

We've all done it, I for one was lucky a few years back to just get a massive telling off for speeding. However I could have faced a ban.
It made me realise that getting home 2 minutes quicker really didn't matter.

As stoney says, your age won't help, they may see u as a typical boy racer that won't learn unless a maximum penalty is applied. Will all depend on the magistrate on the day.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

#5 Stoney871

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 05:01 AM

The usual boundary for a ban is 30% over the posted limit.
Up to 10% above is usually no action taking into consideration conditions and style of driving.
10% and above usually results in either a dressing down or ticket/fine again depending on other factors.
At the end of it all it comes down to attitude, style of driving and road conditions/weather etc.
Unfortunately I personally feel you will get jumped on but if you are lucky to get off a ban then please accept your punishment with good grace, learn from your errors and move forward.
I have had to attend far too many accident scenes and seen too many mangled cars and people where speed was considered a contributing factor.
I am not as pure as snow myself, I recently got a ticket for 40 in a 30 zone, I took my ticket and did a speed awareness course and that was the end of the matter (then again I have been driving for 25 years and 7 of those as a pursuit trained police driver) nobody is above the rules not even me.

#6 Brigante

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 05:24 PM

Clive knows about this but I once nearly got a ban when I was 20 for being clocked doing 102mph in Glasgow.

I say nearly cause I was actually working in Nottingham at the time.. Used to work for a construction firm where we was sent all over the country on a weekly basis so we was provided with hire cars. I was sent out a peugeot tank to the hotel to drive myself home in and one of the lads was sent a little turbo diesel fabia and had to drive 4 lads plus a case of clothes each up to glasgow. He asked if we could swap motors cause it made sense to rather than 5 of em squash in the fabia. Ok'd it with one of the gaffers so we swapped paperwork n keys.

2weeks to a month later and I'm now working in warwick, the same gaffer strolls in, takes me off site and says 'you've been a naughty boy Mr Brigante..' he then went on to tell me I'd been clocked speeding in glasgow 102 miles a !Removed! hour and that I was more than likely going to lose my license especially cause of my age. Was confused at first cause I'd actually worked in glasgow a few months previously but never went near that speed cause the rain wasn't far off a tsunami and could barely see a yard in front of me when I was driving back from there and I had a driver on the way up, but then working the dates out I was in nottingham, I asked what car it was and he said the pug tank..

Turns out the very same gaffer calling a naughty boy and telling me I'm gonna lose me license is the same one who OK'd transferring the cars over but then forgot to phone europcar up to swap the polices over so it was still in my name. Needless to say he was lucky to still have the use of his knee caps after we realized his mistake.

Few days later I got a letter in the post from the police saying I'd been clocked speeding at 102mph, was looking at a so many grand fine, X amount of points and most likely facing losing my license unless I co operated.

All I had to do was write a letter back explaining the gaffers !Removed! up, gave them the gaffers details and the company address and told them to contact him for the actual drivers details as all I knew is he was called mohammad.

Never heard anything about it since and my license is still clean so I assume it went my way. Would have liked to see the nob heads face though when he got a letter in the post..

#7 Phil Griff

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 07:25 PM

Hi Stoney,

You seem fairly knowledgeable about this and would like to ask your opinion on this.

I have spoken to a solicitor today, and she has said it is highly likely she will be able to get me down to 5 points.

She also went to on to say I might be able to get away with 3 points, and just do a pass plus test. I have spend hours on the internet and not seen this anywhere! The catch with this would be to use my age as an advantage. If I say how my lack of experience has got the better the better of me, and this is why I've done such a stupid thing. I am very wary about this option though and very fearful it will back fire on me and the court say exactly, you have no experience, so you shouldn't be on the roads.

#8 Jason 'Tweek' Batty

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 07:45 PM

Best thing to do is listen to your solicitor. I got banned from driving bearly months after passing my test at 19 and payed dearly for it. No car, no job, no money. Took me nearly 5 years to get my licence back after resitting all the tests and I am much more of a better driver for doing so. Let us know how you get on please.

#9 Stoney871

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 08:22 PM

If they knock you down to 3 points they should by rights offer you the chance of a speed awareness course which means you can pay for the course and avoid points and resulting insurance hikes.
If they require you to do a pass plus test then that will give you the motorway experience you obviously need.
The reason that motorway driving is not included in a standard driving test is because not everyone has a motorway handy.
I personally would need to drive 40 miles to just reach one.
It is impossible to simulate motorway driving even on the best A roads so many new drivers are dumped out into the world of roads for which they have had no proper training to drive on.
Definitely follow all advice from a Solicitor, they will push for the best deal you can achieve.
If they say plead guilty then you are best to.

#10 Brigante

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 09:07 PM

Kinda off topic but I'd reccomend a pass course to every new driver anyway. I passed my test at 17 and did the pass plus straight after, it prepared me well for a new job where I was driving up n down every motorway going every week if not every day so if I hadn't of done pass plus I'd have been thrown right in the deep end. I now have years of motorway driving experience, been to pretty much every city in the UK n profer motorway driving to local driving any day.

#11 Stoney871

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 09:49 PM

Statistically motorway driving is safer than urban driving.

#12 Brigante

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 10:12 PM

Statistically motorway driving is safer than urban driving.


I know mate was gonna say that

#13 NorthSussex

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 09:16 PM

You won't like my opinion, but, If there is evidence that your speed was in excess of 93mph which is likely as you have to attend court, the most probable outcome is that a fine and ban would be imposed by the court, unfortunately for insurance purposes a ban has to be declared when applying for insurance, resulting in the subsequent increased premiums for the next 5 years. A lesson to us all as I speak from experience having been banned 15 years ago for speeding on the motorway, I now do not knowingly exceed the speed limit much to the annoyance of other drivers, but if I had carried on driving in that manor I could be 6feet under by now, so every cloud has a silver lining .

#14 GSM

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:17 PM

If they knock you down to 3 points they should by rights offer you the chance of a speed awareness course which means you can pay for the course and avoid points and resulting insurance hikes.
If they require you to do a pass plus test then that will give you the motorway experience you obviously need.
The reason that motorway driving is not included in a standard driving test is because not everyone has a motorway handy.
I personally would need to drive 40 miles to just reach one.
It is impossible to simulate motorway driving even on the best A roads so many new drivers are dumped out into the world of roads for which they have had no proper training to drive on.
Definitely follow all advice from a Solicitor, they will push for the best deal you can achieve.
If they say plead guilty then you are best to.


Seems a strange reason to leave it off the test/lessons... since there are quite a few things on the test/theory test that almost never come up.

For example, I've never been anywhere near a level crossing and only once in my driving career have I encountered a "STOP" sign. Yet level crossing are all over the theory test, and my instructor and tester purposefully made my constantly go to a local stop sign. The one I got on my lessons/test is the only one I've ever encountered.

#15 Stoney871

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:08 PM

It would be considered impractical to do motorway testing when there are no motorways within a short distance.
In the south west the motorway stops at Exeter so expecting someone to travel all the way up to there from lands end for a practical test is impractical.
There are a few places in the UK where there are no motorways available and some even have problems with availability of A roads.

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