Fiesta Rear Ended - Is It Likely To Be A Write Off?

[Jeska48]

[This may be posted in the wrong forum, I'm new here so I wasn't sure!]

I was rear ended at a roundabout on Wednesday night and I want to know (so I can prepare myself mainly) whether it's likely to be a write-off or not.

I have a 53 plate Fiesta with around 47k on the clock, not in showroom condition, few scratches and a little ding in a front wheel arch but not too bad for its age. I was hit while stationary by a bloke in a Ka who couldn't have been doing more than 15-20mph at the very most. The Fiesta suffered surprising damage to the tailgate - complete with bent catch so it wouldn't shut properly - and a split bumper. As far as I could see, this was the only damage. Obviously I have pictures etc. and the insurance have had it taken to be assessed for any structural damage and for its fate to be decided.

Do you think they'll write it off rather than repair it because of its age etc?

[Mike77]

If the tailgate wouldn't shut properly because the actual boot catch has bent then this is more than just replacing the tailgate. When assessing the damage to your car, the garage will quote for 'new' parts, and when you think a bumper can cost upwards of 200 quid, tailgate probably more, then factor in the cost of straightening anything that has bent (very possible that you can't see it) labour charges and painting costs, you'd be very suprised at the way the bill keeps rising. In my opinion I think they may just write it off, but be prepared for a bit of an insult offer from the insurer, its common practice. Your low mileage will help in this situation. You'll need to look through the autotrader and find models of similar mileage and spec, and prove they are selling for more than they are offering. Top and bottom of it is, don't be a push over if you think the offer is too low, as a little resistance from you can mean the difference of a few hundred quid... Good luck whichever way it goes.

[Stoney871]

To put it into context, my car was dinked a few months ago while parked by a motorbike which hit the side skirt area and damaged the wheel.

I thought- ah a bit of fille, some paint and a new wheel and it will be fine.

£1500 later and with a new steering rack, suspension arm, drop links, hub, ball joint, wheel, tyre and numerous other small bits and pieces I'll never look at a small dink in the same light.

If my car had been 5 years older view would have probably written it off.

It all comes down to the value of the car if bought at current market price versus repair costs.

It won't be that the cars not repairable but that it's not cost effective to the insurance company to do so.

Good luck with it all though.

[alexp999]

Often with rear ends it can cause damage to the chassis under the boot carpet.

My dads car was rear ended once, tailgate wouldn't open and it caused a massive crease in the boot under the carpet. The car was fairly new at the time, but it took a lot of work having it straightened and massive reinforcing plates welded on.

I hope it's not a write off, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it is.

[Jeska48]

Thank, I've been preparing myself for the discussion about value etc. Apparently they'll pressure you into accepting a low offer by cancelling your courtesy car so you have no car at all - not an issue at the moment as I can do without anyway. The same model with similar mileage is going for about 4k on Autotrader at the moment and I'm not really up for taking much less.

I was actually quite surprised that he'd done so much external damage so I suppose structural damage could be quite likely. The garage told me it would be assessed and an estimate done by the end of yesterday, how long are the insurance likely to wait before they let me know? Obviously they're making money from the 3rd party insurer on the hire car so they'll keep it going as long as possible.

[Mike77]

No, they won't drag their heels, the third party insurer will want things done as soon as possible to keep costs down. I do think your being a little optimistic with 4k for the car. A good guide is to use the Whatcar valuations site. I put your car down as a 1.4 ghia 2003 with your mileage and prices came back between 2450 private sale, and 2850 trade forecourt, just don't be suprised if they offer you less than this if the car is written off.

[Stoney871]

Their key phrase is always beyond economical repair.

The car will be fixable but they're not willing to throw money at it.

If you take labour costs out of the equation then the costs will nearly be half.

If you are handy with tools and know of someone who's willing to do mates rates work for body and spray then it's more doable.

[Jeska48]

It's not going directly through the 3rd party insurer though, that's the issue. It's going through my insurance, who are "managing my claim" on my behalf. In hindsight, that was a bad choice. I know the car wasn't actually worth 4k and maybe trying to get that out of them is a bit optimistic (might be worth having a go though ;)), however the insurance have to offer me enough to return me to the exact same position I was in before the accident as I'm not at fault - i.e. they have to give me enough to replace my car like for like. The market value of the car isn't likely to cover that as mine was low mileage.

Example: this one is exactly the same as mine in every way but with higher mileage and it's going for £3490.

http://www2.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201242489338167/sort/default/usedcars/transmission/manual/engine-size-cars/1-4l_to_1-6l/quantity-of-doors/3/maximum-mileage/up_to_60000_miles/maximum-age/up_to_10_years_old/fuel-type/diesel/model/fiesta/make/ford/onesearchad/used/onesearchad/nearlynew/onesearchad/new/page/1/radius/1501/postcode/ba147pt?logcode=p

[alexp999]

...the insurance have to offer me enough to return me to the exact same position I was in before the accident as I'm not at fault...

TRUE

...i.e. they have to give me enough to replace my car like for like. The market value of the car isn't likely to cover that as mine was low mileage...

NOT TRUE.

Thats the way with insurance, the only have to give you enough money to cover what you would have got for the car if you had sold the moment before you had the accident. They only have to pay you the VALUE of the car, not the COST of replacing it.

The part about putting you in the same position is true, in the sense that they give you the moneys worth of what you were driving around in at the time, and not the actual cost of replacing it.

[Jeska48]

Right okay, thanks for clarifying. So basically to avoid getting ripped off, I just need to make sure they give me somewhere in the region of the Glass/Whatcar valuation?

Just spoken to my insurance company who have told me the repair cost has been estimated at 66% of the engineer's valuation, however the 3rd party insurer now has to decide whether they will write it off or have it repaired. Any ideas which way that might go? Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it easier/cheaper/less time-consuming for them to write it off?

They also told me they'll be wanting my courtesy car back 7 days after they post my cheque - which I thought was kind of them, since it'll take a couple of days to arrive and cheques take nearly a week to clear <_<

[Mathrin]

Their key phrase is always beyond economical repair.

The car will be fixable but they're not willing to throw money at it.

If you take labour costs out of the equation then the costs will nearly be half.

If you are handy with tools and know of someone who's willing to do mates rates work for body and spray then it's more doable.

Anything over 66% of the vehicles Pre accident value = Write off.

Cosmetic is cat D

Salvage is Cat C

Breaking for parts is Cat B

Burnt husk/physically dangerous to anyone around the vehicle is Cat A.

By the sounds of things, I'd suggest it's a Cat D writeoff from what you have said Jeska. 66% is absolute borderline, I write off as Cat D anything from 66-70% of total value unless the indi engi has raised any further problems.

Depending on who you insure with, depends which guide is used for your valuation. We use Glasses, and go for mid book with milage and damage adjustments. From what you've said there is likely some PAV adjustment to be made for damage to wheelarch, but likely some to be added for mileage as thats low for a 53 plate car. Avg is roughly 12k per year, anything more and it's deducted. If you have a valuation dispute, get examples of your EXACT car from autotrader, send into insurer and they will look to raise. Atleast thats what we do.

You've been had when they say CC needs to be back 7 days after they post the cheque. GTA ABI states that the client must be taken out credit hire no longer than 7 days after the client receives the cheque. Its a right thorn in my side. Who provided the car for you out of interest? Drive Assist/Enterprise/Albany Assistance?

[Jeska48]

Apologies for lack of replies, been away for the weekend.

You can trust me to be a difficult case and get it right on the borderline, I'm just that kind of girl! The engineer's report has now gone to 3rd party insurance and they have until the 15th to decide. I'm insured with Admiral, who use Albany as their "legal assistance" and they sort out the hire car via HelpHire. How many companies does it take to sort out an insurance claim? Answers on a postcard.. I thought the comment about the car was slightly off but I'll fight my corner on that if/when it comes to it.

The damage to the wheel arch was repaired, not perfectly but looked pretty close to it so hopefully that won't have too much of an impact. I got a Glass's valuation this morning (with estimated mileage at 47k as I don't know the exact figure) and this is what came back:

Trade in (excellent) £1,505.00 Trade in (average) £1,210.00 Trade in (below average) £965.00 Dealer asks (up to) £2,620.00 Private (up to) £1,980.00

I've just thought - the car had an advisory on its last MOT which was something about the rear springs having minimal corrosion, is this likely to have any weight on the whole thing?

[Mathrin]

If it's a Helphire case, they'll likely have used Acorn Assessors to have a look at the vehicle for you, which basically gives a report saying over 66%, awaiting your instruction.

Admiral are largely decent to work with, I've only ever had one problem with them one of of my total loss cases - a fiesta that they wrote off that I was adamant wasn't a write off. Otherwise they have been perfectly reasonable. Good job really seeing as I insure with them myself!

As for "how many people does it take to sort a claim". You got it easy :P Insure with Marks & Spencer and you have to report it to them, to Minster Law, to Drive Assist and then to my place that underwrites the policies. Then if you have injury there's a solicitor to report the claim to... It's not as simple as everyone seems to believe. Complete ballache for us too! Albany are the same company as HelpHire by the way. Same address and bank details.

As far as that advisory goes, there is the potential for an insurer to knock a bit off for it, but largely if it's only an advisory they wont bother. If you didn't have an MOT at all, expect a 15% cut in the Pre accident value.

Hazarding a guess from those GVA figures, I'd suggest you'd be offered around about 1.400-1.600