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ICE stereo amplifier subwoofe

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#46 Hassen

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:22 AM

The Jbl look good with their adjustable tweeter volume and angle, Jbl is a high end brand respected in PA and pro-audio circles, it is a 2 way system (a 3-way is un-nessesary in this size/ power of system)

it has the efficiency of the speaker (92db) which helps(if you apply 1W, the speaker will produce 92db, at 1meter, on-axis ), and the pioneer is an outgoing model, lastly the Jbl is a bit less expensive than the Pioneer

Watch out for the 2ohms impeadance and that the amp can drive that (whether built into the head unil or seperate)

you would normally use the head unit to drive the door speakers(there is usually 4 "seperate" amps/ outputs in a head unit) and a seperate amp to drive the sub.(if your amp was designed for a sub it will only have one output (for the sub) anyway ) really loud/ powerful serious installations might use multiple seperate amps



Thanks a million for the info. That made my options a bit clearer now.
The amp and sub combo I have is a Blaupunkt GT470 amp and a 12'' Edge amplifier that was in my old car. Reckon the amp would be able to drive the speakers if the headunit cannot. Might be a bit trickier to do, but it might make the sound a bit better. Any thoughts?

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#47 FOCA

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:34 PM

Wow thats a serious amp- i looked up the specs -
Blaupunkt GTA470 SF features
  • Max total power: 840 (1 channel mode)
    • RMS power 4 ohms: 4 x 70 watts / 2 x 200 watts
    • RMS power 2 ohms: 4 x 100 watts
    • Max. power 4 ohms: 4 x 140 watts / 2 x 420 watts
    • Number of channels: 4/3/2
    • Speaker outputs: 4
    • Inputs: Cinch
    • Frequency range: 10 – 30,000 Hz
    • Stability: 2 ohms
    • Signal/noise ratio: > 92 dB/A
    • Gain adjust: 0.1 – 8 volts
    • Low pass: 50 – 250 Hz
    • High pass: 80 Hz
  • what happened there ?
[/list][/list][/list][/list][/list][/list][/list][/list][/list][/list]

the Blaupunkt amp is too powerful for the Jbl or Pioneer speakers you have listed, you will need speakers that handle more power (100W rms) - the amp can work in 2,3 or 4 channel mode, so it gives a lot of flexibility, withe suitable door speakers the Blaupunkt amp will be louder and probably better sounding than the amps that are built into the head unit (especially at high volumes)


if you really want to "go to town" you could use the 4 channells(4 channel mode) of the Blaupunkt to drive the front/ rear door speakers (not the ones in your car now or the ones in your link, you would blow them to bits!) and get ANOTHER amp to drive your sub - that would be some system! (you may need a special audio battery and/ or a power cap to power it all)



#48 Hassen

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 10:24 AM

Wow thats a serious amp- i looked up the specs -
Blaupunkt GTA470 SF features

  • Max total power: 840 (1 channel mode)
    • RMS power 4 ohms: 4 x 70 watts / 2 x 200 watts
    • RMS power 2 ohms: 4 x 100 watts
    • Max. power 4 ohms: 4 x 140 watts / 2 x 420 watts
    • Number of channels: 4/3/2
    • Speaker outputs: 4
    • Inputs: Cinch
    • Frequency range: 10 – 30,000 Hz
    • Stability: 2 ohms
    • Signal/noise ratio: > 92 dB/A
    • Gain adjust: 0.1 – 8 volts
    • Low pass: 50 – 250 Hz
    • High pass: 80 Hz
  • what happened there ?
[/list][/list][/list][/list][/list][/list][/list][/list][/list][/list]

the Blaupunkt amp is too powerful for the Jbl or Pioneer speakers you have listed, you will need speakers that handle more power (100W rms) - the amp can work in 2,3 or 4 channel mode, so it gives a lot of flexibility, withe suitable door speakers the Blaupunkt amp will be louder and probably better sounding than the amps that are built into the head unit (especially at high volumes)


if you really want to "go to town" you could use the 4 channells(4 channel mode) of the Blaupunkt to drive the front/ rear door speakers (not the ones in your car now or the ones in your link, you would blow them to bits!) and get ANOTHER amp to drive your sub - that would be some system! (you may need a special audio battery and/ or a power cap to power it all)



I think the amp I have is the older model, bought second hand. Still a great sounding amp.
This is it:

http://130.com.ua/en...upunkt-gta-470/

Any ideas if this would work with the JBL speakers I was thinking of getting? As it would suck to have to get more expensive speakers.

As for getting the second amp idea for the sub and power the 4 speakers with the amp, it would be awesome! Sadly due to lack of funds and given the fact that I need the bootspace for the lil ones stuff(smallest person has the most amount of stuff. Go figure), I think I will start with the front speaker upgrades and wire the amp to the speaker to get a cleaner more distinct sound and see how it goes in the future as rarely anyone sits in the back of the car. Even though, having a proper surround sound experience in the car would be worth the effort and money I reckon.

#49 FOCA

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 01:34 PM

Your Biaupunkt produces 70W RMS per channel (there are 4 channels = 4 seperate "amps" or 2 stereo "amps" in one box) the Pioneer speakers (in your link) handle 50W RMS max and the JBLs 60W, you could use them but you would have to be very, very carful, personally i would use 140W (RMS "true" power) speaker/s with 70w amp/s i have found these 87W (RMS) Kenwood speakers (of similar spec/ quality to the JBLs but better power handling) for a similar price -


http://www.ebay.co.u...=item25722b2d53


You will need 2 pairs - 2 for the front doors and 2 for the rear (doors or panels) with the Blaupunkt amp it will be louder and sound better (IMO) (they are a better spec than stock and Kenwood has a good reputation) than the stock system but still loads of space in the car (you will need to find somewhere to mount the amp but it is slim and will not take up a lit of space) some of these ICE installs can be very heavy (something many people don't take into account) but this setup would be only a few kgs more than stock

#50 Hassen

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 08:37 PM

Your Biaupunkt produces 70W RMS per channel (there are 4 channels = 4 seperate "amps" or 2 stereo "amps" in one box) the Pioneer speakers (in your link) handle 50W RMS max and the JBLs 60W, you could use them but you would have to be very, very carful, personally i would use 140W (RMS "true" power) speaker/s with 70w amp/s i have found these 87W (RMS) Kenwood speakers (of similar spec/ quality to the JBLs but better power handling) for a similar price -


http://www.ebay.co.u...=item25722b2d53


You will need 2 pairs - 2 for the front doors and 2 for the rear (doors or panels) with the Blaupunkt amp it will be louder and sound better (IMO) (they are a better spec than stock and Kenwood has a good reputation) than the stock system but still loads of space in the car (you will need to find somewhere to mount the amp but it is slim and will not take up a lit of space) some of these ICE installs can be very heavy (something many people don't take into account) but this setup would be only a few kgs more than stock



Foca thanks a million for the link and the information about the speaker specs. You saved me a lot of digging around on a subject that I know very little of. I think the Kenwood ones will fit the bill nicely as they tick all the right boxes. Might just get a pair for the front only at this point in time and wait till I have a bit more funds to get the rear ones. My sound guy already wired up the amp and the subwoofer to the car. The amp is secured to the left rear side of the boot wall and it looks very clean. Not taking a lot of space and the subwoofer can be disconnected when I need the bootspace to haul stuff.
And you are dead right about the weight issue as I know how heavy my subwoofer is and how it affects my fuel consumption. I will still gladly sacrifice a bit of fuel for a decent sounding system. Any ideas of other places that I could find the Kenwood speakers shipped to Republic of Ireland for not a lot of money? The shipping costs are just ridiculous on Ebay for some of the sellers.
Thanks

#51 FOCA

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 11:58 PM

Thats very unfair about the P+P, its free to mainland UK!

I found this in Halfords, (Vibe Slick 5x7" 80w rms) -

halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_768537_langId_-1_categoryId_265870#tab2

Or just do a search online for "5x7" car speaker" and find one with the required spec / postage (the RMS power is the most important 70w rms absolute minimum for use with your Bluapunkt amp )

if you are using 2 (bridge mode) of your 4 channels of your amp to drive the subwoofer, you will have 2 channels left over to drive your front 2 speakers, your 2 rear door/ panel speakers could be run from your head unit (so they would be a bit quiet or may overload compared to the powerful front speakers) - you coold fit infrasonic passive crossovers to the rear door/ panel speakers to increase the power handling of the speakers/ amps to make them sound louder

some people remove their spare wheel (+ replace it with tyreweld etc) and build a sunken/ flush sub into it, (ive seen 2x10s/ 1 x10 or 1x12s in them) or you can invert the spare and get one that fits into the middle of the wheel, this may not have quite the same performance as your sub, (mabee a good one might) but is probably a bit lighter and worth considering for you if you often have to remove your sub-woofer box!

happy to chat about speakers ice! - its about time i did something special to my own car! - its still stiock! (just never got round to it!)

#52 Hassen

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 08:00 PM

Thats very unfair about the P+P, its free to mainland UK!

I found this in Halfords, (Vibe Slick 5x7" 80w rms) -

halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_768537_langId_-1_categoryId_265870#tab2

Or just do a search online for "5x7" car speaker" and find one with the required spec / postage (the RMS power is the most important 70w rms absolute minimum for use with your Bluapunkt amp )

if you are using 2 (bridge mode) of your 4 channels of your amp to drive the subwoofer, you will have 2 channels left over to drive your front 2 speakers, your 2 rear door/ panel speakers could be run from your head unit (so they would be a bit quiet or may overload compared to the powerful front speakers) - you coold fit infrasonic passive crossovers to the rear door/ panel speakers to increase the power handling of the speakers/ amps to make them sound louder

some people remove their spare wheel (+ replace it with tyreweld etc) and build a sunken/ flush sub into it, (ive seen 2x10s/ 1 x10 or 1x12s in them) or you can invert the spare and get one that fits into the middle of the wheel, this may not have quite the same performance as your sub, (mabee a good one might) but is probably a bit lighter and worth considering for you if you often have to remove your sub-woofer box!

happy to chat about speakers ice! - its about time i did something special to my own car! - its still stiock! (just never got round to it!)



We get the wrong end of the stick when it comes to postage to the Republic most of the time. Think I might just bite the bullet and get the Kenwood ones so that they are shipped by the end of this coming week to be fitted next Saturday in the sound guy.

So far didn't have to remove the sub many times in the old car and the Focus has an even bigger boot than my old Megane. Reckon I should be fine unless we go on a major trip in the near future. Plus, I reckon that with my luck, the minute I take off the spare wheel to put the sub in, I will end up with a puncture.

Btw, you have any ideas Foca of what you want to do for your ICE? As I am curious what other members have in their cars and how hard was it to get it all done.

I will be posting updates on how it goes. So far the tentative plan is to wire up the Kenwood speakers to the amp, connect the Edge 12" sub to the Blaupunkt GTA 470 and connect the amp then to the original Ford headunit. Reckon it will be much better sounding than the stock speakers. Also, forgot to mention that I will relocate the AUX port as I bought a cable that will fit into the headunit and has a male 3.5mm end that will just connect to my mp3 player then.

#53 Hassen

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:54 PM

Update:

Today got the sound system sorted. The Kenwood speakers that I ordered from Amazon in the end didn't fit. The replacement speakers I got was a pair of Vibe Slick 6(165mm/6.5" circular) that so far sound great and didn't break the bank. The wires needed to be spliced and the Ford connectors had to be cut off to make it work. My sound guy cut off(basically sawed off) the original door speakers and used the surround piece of plastic to screw in the new speakers in. Downside is now I can't put back the original speakers as they are in pieces. He also relocated the AUX wire so that now it comes out near the heater dials.

Finally it's all in the car and the sound is miles better than the stock system. Really happy with the end result. Cheers guys for all the help and in the process, I learned loads about my car. Thanks also to Pat Rowan at Dialacom in Tullamore for putting it altogether. If anyone needs work on their sound system in the Midlands, Ireland, I highly recommend Pat. The man knows what he is doing and the quality of his work is outstanding.

Here are some pictures:

Posted Image

Posted Image

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#54 FOCA

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 06:55 PM

Glad you got it sorted! - looks good

#55 Hassen

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:03 PM

Thanks for all the info Foca. It sounds great so far.

By the way, the Kenwood speakers I got didn't want to fit in the door. Any 165 cm circular speaker will do for anyone looking to change the speakers. Just cut out the Ford speakers with a hacksaw, leave the black plastic surrounds in the door and screw in the new speakers. No need for adaptors etc. The new speakers will have to be connected to the wires as the Ford connectors will need to be cut out. Not a hard job but a tedious one to manage. Well worth the hassle though :)

#56 Stoney871

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:10 PM

Instead of chopping wires you can buy an adaptor that goes between the ford plugs and the new speakers.

#57 Hassen

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:23 PM

Instead of chopping wires you can buy an adaptor that goes between the ford plugs and the new speakers.


Cheers for the info. Think I saw them on Ebay being made by Autoleads. Might come in handy when I do decide to upgrade the rear speakers.

#58 Stoney871

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:30 PM

Welcome :)

#59 salsheikh

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 12:32 PM

mmm, i currently have a 12" Vibe Sub/Amp combo (Vibe CBR12 Active) and i like it but it 'drones' a lot and I am thinking of getting a 10" sub to give me that thump soun, am I right that the smaller sub will do this?

I have also managed to get myself a one off built sub enclosure that will fit in the passenger side space in the boot - will try and get a pic later of it, this will leave me lots of space in the boot as i plan to mount the amp on the other side. I currently use the Vibe fastplugs so i can remove the sub box out of the boot if i need the space. One big downside is I am using the Ford/Sony DAB OEM H/U and am using the RCA adaptors so the sub is working off the rear speakers and the car speakers (front and rear) are running off the front speakers.

#60 salsheikh

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:39 PM

sorry about the mess in the boot, been very lazy recently

current set up and future sub box to be installed (currently the hole is 13" but am i right in thinking i can use a price of mdf with a 10" and fix (screws and sealant) this into the sub and then add the sub?

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