Mk2 Focus 1.8 Tdci - Possible Dual Mass Flywheel Replacement?

[Pitmonster]

Hi All,

My Mk2 Focus 1.8 TDCI (6yrs old, 82k miles) has started to make a noise when the clutch pedal is pressed partway down.

The sound can only be described as a both a slight change of tone in the engine sound and also a quiet tick-tick-tick noise at the same time.

It happens at the top of the clutch travel, and continues until the pedal is pressed halfway down. Then as you continue to press the pedal all the way down, the noise goes away.

As you bring the clutch back up, the same thing happens - nothing at the bottom, starting halfway up, and continuing to the top end of the clutch pedal travel.

Then when your foot is off the clutch (either in neutral or driving in gear) there is no noise.

I first noticed it about a month ago, but it may have been like this for longer (and I just never noticed it)

This occurs when the car is stationery, and also when driving (but only when the engine is running. When the engine is off there is no noise - obviously because nothng is rotating).

Clearly this is something in the clutch area of the drivetrain.

The clutch is not slipping in any way.

The noise is very quiet, and you have to turn the radio off to hear it. Even normal conversation covers the sound - but like most strange noises in a car once you have heard it, you listen for it on purpose and that means you ALWAYS hear it!

Mrs PM had never heard it until I pointed it out, and even then she struggled to hear it.

I had the car into Ford yesterday (for something else) and asked them to check the noise. They have diagnosed the Dual Mass Flywheel starting to go.

This diagnosis is based on the noise and their experience - it's impossible to be certain without taking the gearbox off and having a visual inspection (which is a big job in itself, and once you've invested that much labour you may as well replace things while you're at it).

Also it's impossible to tell what stage the wear is at - it may be 5% worn or it may be 95% worn, and of course this means it may last another 5 years or it may let go tomorrow.

Ford have advised that the DMF should be replaced, and while they are at it they'll inspect the clutch, clutch release bearing and slave cylinder.

The "worst case scenario" to replace *all* of these parts is £1300, which they have agreed to "get down" to £1000)

(About 3 years ago I looked into getting a Mk2 Mondeo with the 2.0 TDCi engine, and failing DMFs were mentioned a lot, but I wasn't aware that the 1.8 TDCi Focus even had one. Prices for the Mondeo replacement were also around £1000)

So I have a few questions:

1) Does the 1.8 TDCi Mk2 Focus have a DMF or not?

2) Does the noise I've described sound like one that's on the way out?

3) What kind of life can I expect before it goes?

4) If/when it goes, what are the consequences? Will it lunch the entire engine & gearbox, or is it "just" (ha!) replacement of the DMF (and probably clutch too)?

5) Could the diagnosis be wrong, and it's actually something else like the actual clutch plate, or the release bearing? Or none of these? Or all of them?

6) Is this a typical price (to replace DMF, clutch, release bearing, slave clinder). What price would I expect from an independent garage?

7) If I get the DMF replaced, should it be replaced with another DMF or should I go for a solid flywheel? Is that cheaper? Will it last longer? What effect would this have? (surely they fit a DMF for a reason)

For now I'm going to bide my time and listen for things changing.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

[Mike77]

1) Does the 1.8 TDCi Mk2 Focus have a DMF or not?

Yes it does

2) Does the noise I've described sound like one that's on the way out?

Sounds plausable, any noise like this can be a sign something is wrong

3) What kind of life can I expect before it goes?

All depends how bad it is, there really is no way of knowing

4) If/when it goes, what are the consequences? Will it lunch the entire engine & gearbox, or is it "just" (ha!) replacement of the DMF (and probably clutch too)?

If left too long apparently they can affect the starter motor, which will only add to your expense

5) Could the diagnosis be wrong, and it's actually something else like the actual clutch plate, or the release bearing? Or none of these? Or all of them?

Even if it is the clutch plate or bearing, I would change the flywheel at the same time anyway, as these are designed to be changed at the same time, and as its quite a big job, its worth doing both together so as not to have to remove the geabox twice !

6) Is this a typical price (to replace DMF, clutch, release bearing, slave clinder). What price would I expect from an independent garage?

I had mine replaced, sourced the parts on eBay, all new, and OEM parts, Think the flywheel was around £200 and the clutch kit around £100, fitted it myself so saved money there. But really had to search for the bits, as most of the complete kits were £500 plus

7) If I get the DMF replaced, should it be replaced with another DMF or should I go for a solid flywheel? Is that cheaper? Will it last longer? What effect would this have? (surely they fit a DMF for a reason)

Wouldn't bother with a solid flywheel, heard many bad things about them, including bad vibrations through the car, I know some garages that will refuse to fit them onto a car designed to run a duel mass system. Plus if you do the job as it should be done, the new kit should well outlast the rest of the time you own it.

[alexp999]

I can't answer all your questions, but my MK1.5 focus had a 1.8 TDi engine, with a DMF which also went with the same symptoms you are describing above.

When it went on that car, it stalled, but carried on driveable afterwards, albeit with an even louder rattle. I think it really depends on how it fails.

The thing is, labour is the biggest cost of having the DMF or clutch changed so everywhere I spoke to said you may as well get the clutch replaced while you have everything out to change the DMF. £1k sounds about right for replacing the entire clutch and DMF.

The reason they fit a DMF, is that a diesel puts out very big pulses of power with each stroke and the extra weight of a DMF (hence the name dual mass), helps to smooth those pulses out, to give a smoother power output.

[FOCA]

It may just be the clutch thrust bearing (CSC)

If this is what is wrong it may last for ages, it may jus gradually detiriorate, getting noisier as time goes on

Try not to leave it in gear with the pedal pressed down at traffic lights etc, (put it in newtral instead) and don't "ride" the clutch pedal (do you do any of these things, or do you drive a LOT in traffic, etc?)

[Pitmonster]

Thanks very much to you all for the replies guys, very much appreciated

FOCA, my driving consists of a mix of town and motorway.

Wherever possible I try and put the gears in neutral when in traffic, but often the traffic is very 'stop-start' where you move forward a car length, wait 5 secs, move forward a car length, wait 5 secs etc

I don't believe I am riding the clutch, but I do spend some time with the car in gear and the clutch pressed down - in the knowledge that in a few seconds I'll be moving again (and stopping again, and moving again)

It's a bad habit, I know, but the reality of driving in traffic means we all do it

So I guess the repair is on the horizon then. Better raid the piggy bank...

In the meantime I'll take it easy and be on my best behaviour when in traffic

Thanks again for the help.