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Timty

Egr Valve Cleaners

42 posts in this topic

Hi,

I have a can of Wynn's EGR valve cleaner for diesel engines. I have been reluctant to use it on my 1.8 tdci focus (2009 reg) as I'm not sure if it will do more harm than good.

Any crud that is loosened will be drawn into the cylinders to combust. Can that be harmful? Has anyone used such a product and would you recommend using same.

I'm hoping for a positive response as the EGR on this model is part of the intake manifold and not the easiest to remove and clean.

Thanks

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sadly... i cannot give the positive response your after...

I did this, afetr noticing a lot of smoke form the back of the car, i manually cleaned the egr as much i could, then used the EGR Cleaner, this worked brilliantly for about 500miles before the EML came on and told me there was a fult with the EGR valve... a few hundred quid later saw a new EGR valve..

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I would like to see a before and after egr valve cleaner as I doubt very much that it can remove very much. The only way to do it properly and without firing more crap into the engine is to remove the egr valve and manifold of required and clean them by hand.

mudman likes this

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Well, I sprayed a 200ml can of Wynn's EGR 3 cleaner into the air intake using 2 methods:

  1. Straight into the inlet manifold. You couldn't possibly depress the nozzle on the can for more than 1 second as the pulverisation would be too severe. However, just 'jabbing' away at the spray nozzle is quite sufficient. I used half the can this way.
  2. Removed the air filter and sprayed the rest of the can directly into the turbo. You can be a bit more enthusiastic with the amount sprayed at a time this method.

There was NO black smoke produced as I performed the above operations. Whether that's good or bad I'm not sure. I'm taking it as a good sign!

I think I will perform this operation at each service as suggested as a preventative measure. My journeys tend to be shortish urban ones. To be honest I'm sorry I bought this car. It's the first diesel I've owned but I'd much prefer a nice quiet petrol engine. As diesel engines go I'd say the 1.8tdci is fairly 'agricultural'.

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it is, but also damn reliable!!

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as tdcist says they are the most reliable of them all. when i took the car for a mot the week before xmas there was a 58plate titanium 1.6tdci, speaking to the tester he said turbo faliure at 58k ran with blown turbo, new turbo fitted, then the engine threw a rod out, so a 58plate with approx 58k new turbo and engine...... go go ford

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as tdcist says they are the most reliable of them all. when i took the car for a mot the week before xmas there was a 58plate titanium 1.6tdci, speaking to the tester he said turbo faliure at 58k ran with blown turbo, new turbo fitted, then the engine threw a rod out, so a 58plate with approx 58k new turbo and engine...... go go ford

Sounds like bad servicing... i believe ford say you need to replace the oil feed pipe at certain services, as these are prone to blocking up! thats the common fault, they block, turbo is starved of oil... and BANG!

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I have another post up by the way, describing a problem I have where the car will misfire after about 1 hour of motorway journey, culminating with an 'Engine Management' error being displayed. At this point engine will idle but not respond to the accelerator. Switch off and on an all is well again. No codes are stored. My instinct is the EGR is sticky and not closing fast enough. I'm guessing that the cylinders are flooded with inert exhaust gases (hence misfire) etc.

Since using the EGR cleaner I took the car for a 150mile motorway spin. Much improved but not perfect. A misfire at 120 miles but no Engine Malfunction message. I intend to give the car a repeat dosage this weekend. What products have you been using and any success?

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block it off and try that....

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It is integrated with the inlet/exhaust manifolds and sounds like a right pain trying to remove it. Was onto a company locally that remove EGRs but they say this can't be done with this car for some reason.

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block it off at the cooler. which when you look at your engine, its on the left hand corner behind the block. they can be taken off and cleaned but only if you have a fair few hours and a sunny day, and yes its in with the manifold etcc... like u mentioned

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Thanks for that. I will investigate on Saturday during daylight. I rang the dealer today and he suggested bringing it to them as their diagnostic equipment could read 'deeper' than my OBD code reader. I can appreciate that this is true but unless the fault condition is on I think I'd be wasting money, what you think? He also mentioned that they had a few cars of this vintage (2009) where this condition arose and they changed the pick up pump in the tank, this seemed to solve the issue. However they had to wait until the problem got worse to be sure this pump was the cause. I'll keep ye informed!

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Thanks for that. I will investigate on Saturday during daylight. I rang the dealer today and he suggested bringing it to them as their diagnostic equipment could read 'deeper' than my OBD code reader. I can appreciate that this is true but unless the fault condition is on I think I'd be wasting money, what you think? He also mentioned that they had a few cars of this vintage (2009) where this condition arose and they changed the pick up pump in the tank, this seemed to solve the issue. However they had to wait until the problem got worse to be sure this pump was the cause. I'll keep ye informed!

Yes - your OBD code reader does 99% of what a pro one does anyway - a garage will be happy to take your money off you

the lift pump on some ford deisels run "part time" / at high demand, so the car appears to run fine untill you accelerate hard/ go uphill etc if it is faulty, the EGR can be a source of problems and is best blocked IMO

As some other members have said, i am also a bit dubious about the effectiveness of the EGR cleaning fluid -

I picked up an ST-TDCI inlet manifold on ebay, it was supposed to have been cleaned but still had a thin coating of carbon (much less than some i have seen) I tried everything to get this off, soap and water, toothbrushes, de-greaser, degreaser and small stones (fish tank) with the ports taped up, shaking it like a cocktail-shaker - the degraser melted the adhesive on the tape and i ended up making a big mess and all this was only partly sucsessful -

So i took it down to a valeter, they sprayed it with foam then turned the high-pressure steam jetwash on it, in 3 minites it was cleaner than all the time i spent on it - when i got it home i noticed patrs of it still had carbon stuck to it, i took it back to the valeters, i asked them to get it spotlessly clean and i left it there a few days - when i finally picked it up it was mint

this was with concentrated foam that removes oil and grease off engines and a high-pressure steam gennie that can take the paint off cars if the nozzle is held too close -

so you can understand how i might be sceptical about "miracle cures" - there is something called terraclean that some claim works well (never tried it myself) - ultimately the EGR/ inlet manifold probably gas to be removed from the car to clean

I needed the manifold to be clean because it was to be modified (gas flowed/ oversize EGR delete sort of modified - not carbon wrap/ pretty lights (cosmetic) sort of modified)

With the EGR delete and the breather re-routed once it was clean it would stay clean (in theory - unless the turbo seals go!)

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FOCA - thank you for a comprehensive reply. When you say 'the EGR can be a source of problems and is best blocked IMO' what does 'IMO' mean? I've been told by a specialist that the EGR can't be removed in software on this car. Thanks again to martyntdci for his instructions on where to block it physically.

Also, if the lift pump fails would it generate a code readable by an OBD reader?

Regarding EGR valves - how often are they deployed? For normal urban driving or even secondary road driving (averaging maybe 40mph) do the conditions arise for the valve to open or is it generally motorway / high demand driving that causes it to deploy?

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IMO is short for "In My Opinion"

The EGR can be deleted in software - Ford put it there, Ford could probably take it out - it may not be easy - it may be beyond most remappers' capabilities - it does not mean it is "impossible"

If you phisically block a Euro 3 EGR (solid, stainless stteel plate) it should cause no problems, the EML (engine management light) should not come on and the engine generally runs better

If you phisically block a Euro 4 (5) EGR (solid, stainless steel plate) it should cause no problems apart from the EML may come on, the engine should not go into "limp home" mode, but the EML light being on can "mask" other problems with the engine that would put the EML on

A blocked EGR cannot cause an MOT failure at present due to emmisions (diesel engines) as only the perticulates (smoke) is measured

There may be that a engine management light on can cause an MOT failure in the future, this can be reset with a suitable code reader

The EGR deployment differs from different engines, and even different Euro compliance levels (3,4,5 etc) early ones were "open" or "closed" later ones were motor driven with a positon sensor ("variable")

When they come on depends on how they are programmed - some mainly when the car was warming up, they may be set to "shut down" (not open) at full throttle/ heavy load, or only work at certain revs (you can usually tell when the EGR opens, the engine "misses"/ runs roughly, and there can be a change of exhaust note, or a "flat spot") often between 1500-2000rpm

On the earlier engines the EGR sustem was "stuck on" like an extra system, on the later cars it was more integrated, and more diffiult to disable/ remove or block (phisically and electronically)

Nevertheless, EGR systems are unnessesary/ not good on a diesel engine, on balance, better with it blocked/ disabled - in my opinion :rolleyes:

exponential likes this

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I'm sure RS Tuning can map out the EGR on this engine...

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I am beginning to agree that EGR cleaner used with the valve in situ is probably useless. I borrowed a boroscope today and had a look inside the inlet manifold and it is quite dirty. Thanks for all the information and advice. I don't know whether the EGR is Euro3/4/5/ etc. but I will block it. I intend blocking it at that point just above and behind where the rubber hose connects to the inlet manifold (i'm referring here to the hose that I would have disconnected in order to spray cleaner into the manifold). Anyone know of a source for a plate to block this port and is there a gasket required? As an aside I must say I'm so happy this car doesn't have a DPF as well!

P.S. Having just discoverd how to do so, I've attached a photo of the point where I hope to block the EGR, can you confirm I'm correct with this pleasepost-39292-0-87696300-1357406587_thumb.j

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unsure, i was told to block mine of there, and mentioned to you the same place. but as from last week mine has being blocked the other end of the pipe, when you look at the engine its on the right hand side behind the block, so ive cut of the cooler all together.... look at the cooler, the entry on the right, then follow that pipe down where it joins mine is now blocked there, with a home made 3.5mm galv plate. machined to the same fitment...... if you look on the bay they approx 3-4 quid, but everybody says it throws the eml light up, wich on mine it doesnt......

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martyntdci - thank you very much for that clarification. Thinking about it, blocking the gases from ever entering the cooler sounds more logical. Fantastic if it doesn't bring on the eml light.

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unsure, i was told to block mine of there, and mentioned to you the same place. but as from last week mine has being blocked the other end of the pipe, when you look at the engine its on the right hand side behind the block, so ive cut of the cooler all together.... look at the cooler, the entry on the right, then follow that pipe down where it joins mine is now blocked there, with a home made 3.5mm galv plate. machined to the same fitment...... if you look on the bay they approx 3-4 quid, but everybody says it throws the eml light up, wich on mine it doesnt......

Thats interesting - does the engine pick up any better?, theoretically blocking the EGR closer to the exhaust manifold should help the turbine spin up faster, less exhaust (heat) energy should be lost, less heat is transferred to the intake - the improvement may be small though

Ditching the junk (EGR pipe/ cooler) will increase reliability of cooling system (no cooler to split) and of course exhaust/ inlet and (now non- existant) EGR systems

the only disadvantage i can see is the cooler not only cooled the exhaust gasses before they reached the EGR valve, but also the heat from the exhaust manifold helps to heat the coolant before it goes to the heater matrix, so helping to maintain temps and helping to warm the engine coolant up quicker - again i dont know how significant this is - its a small cooler and probably does not heat the coolant that much - the cooler being connected is probably only an advantage in the winter and a disadvantage in the summer

I would be interseted to know if the engine seems to take longer to warm up?

Thanks in advance

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Blanking plate ordered. To be safe I've ordered the one with the 10mm hole in it, but when more confident (hopefully!) will try the fully blanked plate. From what FOCA suggests, does it also imply the turbo will be running hotter for longer than intended with reduced bearing life etc?

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Blanking plate ordered. To be safe I've ordered the one with the 10mm hole in it, but when more confident (hopefully!) will try the fully blanked plate. From what FOCA suggests, does it also imply the turbo will be running hotter for longer than intended with reduced bearing life etc?

Ive got to tell you the ones with the holes are a complete waste of time because -

1 - It cannot "fix" a faulty/ leaking/ sticking EGR valve or faulty EGR system - a solid one can

2 - the hole allows gasses through to cause flat spots etc and contaminate/ coke up the inlet manifold

3 - it completely negates the point of the blanking plate, might as well not bother

Best to fit a solid,(no holes to let gasses through) stanless steel (mild steel rusts, alloy can melt) blanking plate of a decent thickness (3+ mm) 5mm if you can get one

The turbo is lubricated by the engine oil - the boost is controlled buy the actuator - the turbo may spool up quicker but it is probably quite subtle (probably the engine will just feel a little bit sweeter/ stronger)

more peak boost is not produced, (it will be the same as before) because the actuator backs it off, if the peak boost is reached sooner, and the efficiency of the engine is increased (because the engine is running on clean air instead of exhaust fumes) it may pull a little bit better so you don't have to use quite so much throttle, - so there may be less stress on the turbo

i blanked my EGR valve years ago - i belive this has HELPED long term reliability

I also have some SERIOUS modifications - ive never blown a turbo or had any bad engine problems

(Overall blanking the EGR (with a solid plate, no holes) tends to make the engine more reliable)

exponential likes this

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unsure, i was told to block mine of there, and mentioned to you the same place. but as from last week mine has being blocked the other end of the pipe, when you look at the engine its on the right hand side behind the block, so ive cut of the cooler all together.... look at the cooler, the entry on the right, then follow that pipe down where it joins mine is now blocked there, with a home made 3.5mm galv plate. machined to the same fitment...... if you look on the bay they approx 3-4 quid, but everybody says it throws the eml light up, wich on mine it doesnt......

Does your car have a Euro 4 EGR. My understanding is that a vacuum operated EGR is Euro 3 while motorised is Euro 4? The solid blanking plate should bring on the eml light on a Euro 4 .. as I understand it anyway. Did this happen with you?

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hi all , just wondering if any of you have had your tdci remapped , i was thinking if there is problems with your EGR because of fouling is it not over fuelling that causes this ~? i might try mine when i get the new engine fitted (cam-box failure) to try and reduce the fuel and give it more air .

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hi all , just wondering if any of you have had your tdci remapped , i was thinking if there is problems with your EGR because of fouling is it not over fuelling that causes this ~? i might try mine when i get the new engine fitted (cam-box failure) to try and reduce the fuel and give it more air .

the EGR valve feeds exhaust gas back into the inlet side of the engine so naturally it will contain soot and will clog things up eventually

The only way you are really going to get more air into the engine (mind diesels are also free breathing) is to replace the standard air filter with a performance one and uprate the intercooler to one with a better flow

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