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Long Term Effects Of Egr Blanking.....


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#1 jeffnat68

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 09:03 PM

HI all.Just curious to know if any of you on here that have installed egr blanking plates have noticed any real difference with their motors i.e,increased fuel economy,better performance etc etc.Thinking about fitting one to my 1.6 tdci but not sure of the benefits if there are any.Looking forward to your feedback.Jeff. :mellow:

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#2 FOCA

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 02:21 PM

Hi

Generally speaking, what people notice when they fit a (solid, stainless steel) blanking plate is, the car runs a little smoother, before the blanking plate was fitted there may have been a hesitation or "flat spot" this may dissapear, and the engine responds better

Often, before the (solid) blanking plate is fitted, there may have been quite a lot of smoke when the car is accelerating hard at full throttle, this may be reduced

The biggest improvement is seen when a faulty EGR is blanked

but it depends on the car, driving style, etc etc

With the (solid) blanking plate fitted, the EGR system cannot fail anymore (scince it is disabled) so long term reliability is improved

A solid plate prevents any more carbon from contaminating the intake/ inlet manifold of the engine, any reliability issues arising from that willl no longer apply

As yoy probably know blanking the EGR will not cause a 2013 UK MOT failure, and if you have a EURO3 engine, you can fit a plate without the EML (engine management light) coming on, and in a EURO4/5 the EML may come on but will not cause other problems and can be reset

"holed" plates (with holes that let gasses through) are no use, alloy plates can melt through, mild steel can rust, so a solid, stainless steel plate of a decent thickness are the ones to go for

I think that just about covers it

#3 jeffnat68

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:09 PM

Thanx for reply foca.Have you blanked your egr valve?I have the sensor on top of my egr valve so a bit reluctant on blanking it as I don't want the eml to come on as I have no obd2 scanner and reset device yet.Also its an instant fail on mots now I have read somewhere if the eml is on.Is there another way in blanking my type of egr valve as my car seems to run a bit lumpy?Thanx Jeff.

#4 FOCA

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 12:36 AM

It was going to be that the EML being on/ coming on was to be compusory (EML coming on causing a fail) in 2012 in a UK MOT test.

(due to the UK MOT test being changed to be closer to the European test/s)

This never happened, and the EML coming on was only an "advisory" in 2012 (would not fail an MOT test for this reason)

This is the reality even though forums, and even Motoring magazines, and newspapers reported that an EML (light) coming on would cause an MOT fail in 2012

If and when exactly the EML coming on/ being on in a UK MOT test becomes a "compulsory" (an MOT fail for this reason) i don't know, and any "gossip"/ "rumours" about this i hear/ read online/ even in newspapers etc, i would take with a "pinch of salt"

Even the official VOSA mot testers "bible" was hard to interpret and suppliments to clarify some of these issues had to be released (looked like a "u-turn" on issues like this if you asked me)

So i would want clarification on this directly from a qualified MOT tester

If the EML light not being on/ coming on is/ was to be made "compulsory" the light would have to be on/ come on during the test to be a fail - 2 minites afterwards wouldent count (cause a fail)

I developed a prototype EGR blanking "kit" for certain Fords, several years ago

I have fitted blanking plates to my cars from about 7 years ago (as far as i remember) - i have a "souped up" mk3 Mondeo euro3 that has had a total EGR delete for several years, it has the original turbo, injectors pumps, etc etc, it runs very well and is very reliable - the EGR being blanked (removed) has helped this reliability a lot (no muck in my inlet!) (i have heard of Ford owners that are on their 4th egr valve!)

You can get a code reader quite cheaply (plugs into laptop)

I have a Superchips Bluefin handset for sale, no laptop required (its a "stand alone" handheld unit) this can read your codes/ reset them as oftem as you like for less than the cost of a garage doing it once (to FOC members)

link-

http://www.fordowner...di-bf05-ford-t/

i would take £50+£10 P+P for it (cost a lot more but its just sitting there - i have a new one)

Once you have the means to reset your EML if you fit a solid blanking plate and are not happy with it (eg the EML coming on (if it does) is annoying you/ you feel it makes no difference etc ) you can always remove it again - they only cast about a fiver

Some (with euro4 engines) prefer not to run with a solid blanking plate and clean out their inlets every few months, some prefer to run with a solid plate and reset their EML (strangely, on the same model of car, the EML may come on soon or ages after bieing reset)

On a euro3 engine, i can unreservedly recommend fitting a (solid) blanking plate

#5 jeffnat68

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 08:22 PM

Thanx again for reply foca.What dose the egr sensor sence?Is it the amount of exhaust gas flowing past it or pressure?Is there a way that the sensor could be retrofitted somewhere along the exhaust line to stop the eml coming on and then permanately sealing the space where the egr should fit?Just a thought.... :)

#6 FOCA

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 10:37 PM

It depends on the exact design, the EGR sensor may be a potentiometer, (variable resistor) the measures the position of the EGR valve - so the EGR "knows" the position of the EGR valve - its a mechanical position sensor so no point in placing it in the exhaust.(with this type of sensor)

If there was an additional flow or pressure sensor (seperate to the MAF and MAP sensors) it would be designed to work in the inlet, not the exhaust, so would not work in the exhaust

All kinds of things have been tried, (ive heard all sorts of ideas, many there is no way they could work)

Simply fitting a solid plate works, or disconnecting wire to the EGR valve (the valve must be sealing/ not faulty for this) both may generate a fault code and put the EML on though, which is reset with a code reader


Many remappers have deleted the EGR electronically on other makes of car, so the EML does not come on (as part of a remap, often withe the DPF phisically and electronically removed) but found electronic EGR delete difficult to achieve on a EURO4 / 5 Fords

There was someone claimig to be able to do this on other forums but it turned out tio be not the case (but theoretically possible on EURO4/ 5 Fords)

Ultimately the best way is all the EGR components are phisically removed/ replaced and the EGR deleted electronically

I have a total EGR delete on my car, (with special parts etc) but it is a EURO3 so realatively easy to do

My bluefin (dedcated Ford obd1/11 code reader/ resetter) is still for sale if you are interested .

#7 jeffnat68

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 08:28 AM

Thanx again foca. I think I will just unplug the connector to the egr for now and see if that will work. But how do I check to see if the egr is closed? Thanx Jeff

#8 FOCA

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:25 AM

If the car runs better (as described above) it is probably sealing down,

If it runs badly with lots of smoke, it is probably stuck open.

The only way to be sure is to fit a solid plate.

#9 Carl0s

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:12 AM

This is the case that im also interested. I drive 1.6 TDCi witch i guess, is an euro 4 engine. So in this case, if i put a blocking plate on the egr, i will get repeated EML light on? I do have few OBD redeader (F-Super & ELM-FF2) so i can reset the EML, but does it pop right back on when i restart the car? Since in finland, you will get rejected on MOT if there is any malfunction on anti pollution devices (they do an OBD test to read the codes, and if something pops out -> rejected).

#10 FOCA

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:36 AM

This is the case that im also interested. I drive 1.6 TDCi witch i guess, is an euro 4 engine. So in this case, if i put a blocking plate on the egr, i will get repeated EML light on? I do have few OBD redeader (F-Super & ELM-FF2) so i can reset the EML, but does it pop right back on when i restart the car? Since in finland, you will get rejected on MOT if there is any malfunction on anti pollution devices (they do an OBD test to read the codes, and if something pops out -> rejected).


I have a euro3 and a euro4 car that i have blanked/ disabled the EGR, the euro3 has been permenantly blanked/ deleted for years with no problems the euro4 car occasionally flashes the EML once in a while, different cars/ people have had difeerent results (same model of car) some EMLs come on straight away, some can take weeks or more before the EML comes on, after blanking the EGR -

i have a theory that if you drive "potter" around the "EGR active area" approx 1500-2000rpm, the light is more likely to come on, and if you tend to drive harder (and keeping the revs higher) it is less likely/ will take longer to come on - its just a theory though

Im sure you will think of something to pass the Finland MOT :)

#11 Carl0s

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:44 AM

I have a euro3 and a euro4 car that i have blanked/ disabled the EGR, the euro3 has been permenantly blanked/ deleted for years with no problems the euro4 car occasionally flashes the EML once in a while, different cars/ people have had difeerent results (same model of car) some EMLs come on straight away, some can take weeks or more before the EML comes on, after blanking the EGR -

i have a theory that if you drive "potter" around the "EGR active area" approx 1500-2000rpm, the light is more likely to come on, and if you tend to drive harder (and keeping the revs higher) it is less likely/ will take longer to come on - its just a theory though

Im sure you will think of something to pass the Finland MOT :)



Yeah, if nothing else helps, then i need to stash a bottle of "clear" to the compartment where to obd plug is ;)

But, that eases a lot if its not like instant eml on, so clearing the dtc's right before the mot, and it should just fly by.

#12 jeffnat68

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:53 PM

Well I unplugged the connector to the egr and took car for a drive.Car felt rough and after a while eml came on.Checked code with my new obd scanner and it says exhaust gas flow rate low.So cleared light and plugged connector back in.Looks like egr has stuck open as foca said may happen.So a blanking plate it is then.

#13 jeffnat68

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 04:34 PM

Just an after thought.I don't see any black smoke in rear view mirrors when I boot it so will that mean the egr valve is working as I am not sure if its stuck open all the time and if it is what difference would there be if the egr valve was closed?

#14 jeffnat68

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 09:50 PM

Hi all.This may sound like a dumb question but where do the gasses go when you have blanked the egr?Thanx Jeff..

#15 FOCA

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 09:50 AM

Hi all.This may sound like a dumb question but where do the gasses go when you have blanked the egr?Thanx Jeff..


No, its not a dumb question - the gasses will go out the exhaust pipe (where they should go)

And not into the inlet manifold (where they ought not to go- but will if the EGR is not removed/ disabled blanked)

The name is a bit of a giveaway - EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation)

The fundamentals are very simple - a realatively small amount of exhaust gasses are diverted from the exhaust and fed into the inlet controlled by the EGR valve blocking/ removing or disabling the EGR valve means all the ehhaust gasses will go out the exhaust - so no dirty exhaust gasses get into the inlet to cause contamination, flat spots, hesitation poor running etc if the EGR system is blocked/ disabled, it cannot fail - improving reliability

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