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2.0Tdci Clutch Issue


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#1 KBatt72

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 01:51 AM

Hello all!

I posted this in general before I realised there was a dedicated Focus section, so I do apologise if you've read this twice!

I am new to this forum and admittedly I am not overly mechanically savvy but I do know the basics and have savvy men in the family who can do anything mechanical but are knowledgable in BMW's rather than Ford's so this is where I need your help!

Basically, I purchased a Focus late last year. 19k on the clock. Find out the flywheel was severely damaged. Ford want 2k for a repair job so my dad offers to do this. (Now, my dad can do anything you need on a car, rebuild engines, fit head gaskets etc but he is cloudy when it comes to Ford's as we have owned BMW's for a very long time.)

My dad replaced the flywheel, clutch, starter motor, pressure bled the clutch, checked gear linkage but we have one problem. We can't disengage the clutch. It will go into any gear when the engine is off, but once running, it will not go into gear.
We have searched everywhere, partially knowlegable views online, but mainly unknowledgable, contacted SACHS (who recommended the clutch plate might be catching, so to pump the clutch to free it...this of course did not work.) so before we strip it back down and remove that ridiculously heavy gearbox again I would like all the mechanically savvy people to help shed light on the possible problems/solutions.

I would hugely appreciate your help.

Kelly

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#2 FOCA

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 07:22 AM

There could be a mismatch of parts or the CSC is malfunctioning

So you replaced the DMF, was it identical to the original one/ was it a Ford item?

there are 2 main parts the the clutch, the driven plate and the pressure plate, again were they both replaced and were they Ford items?

Was the CSC replaced too?

The clutch pedal is hydralic, when you press on the pedal it releases the clutch master cylinder, which pressurises hydralic fluid into the CSC (via hydralic lines) the CSC (concentric slave cylinder) then the CSC pushes on the clutch pressure plate seperating it from the driven plate, thus allowing the flywheel (engine) to turn independantly of the gearbox (wheels) even when it is in gear

Something has gone wrong with this chain, perhaps the CNC is not moving when the clutch is pressed (needs bled, burst seal in the CNC itself or elswhere etc) or the CNC is working as it should and there is a problem with the clutch disengaging (incorect/ mismatched components/ incorrectly fitted components- eg if the distance between the CSC and pressure plate is too big the clutch will not disengage)

if you were to try putting the car in gear with the engine not running - without pressing the clutch pedal -
it would go into gear - if you did the same with the engine running, it would not go into gear (because the syncromesh would not allow it) - so basically pressing the clutch pedal is doing nothing/ not operating/ disengaging the clutch (plates)

Apart from checking for leaks/ loss of hydralic (brake) fluid,(the brakes share the resovior/ fluid) and re-bleeding the system, you will probably have to drop the gearbox out again, im afraid

Sometimes mechanics line it up and bleed the clutch to test it before bolting it all up to the car

When i got my replacement flywheel/ clutch, there was a warning note on the CSC to not push the cylinder by hand and to handle it with care

Hope you get it sorted

#3 Andy H Dibley

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:46 AM

What is the clutch pedal doing when you press it? Is it solid or going straight to the floor?

Can't remember if there is any external linkage on the clutch you can see from the outside, but to me it sounds like you might have to pull it again. You may find as you pull it, it works and you can see it separating the plates, in which case you may have an interference issue when the gearbox is mounted.

Good luck and post back how you get on!

#4 KBatt72

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:57 AM

Thank you FOCA for your prompt reply. I can't answer that quite yet but I have printed off your message to give to my dad to read shortly when he is home.

Andy Dibley - If you start the car in gear even with your foot on the clutch it jumps. (This was after the nipple bleed but before the pressure bleed) When the engine is not running you can select gear, but when the engine is running you cant. You can hear the revs change very slightly as you try to push it into gear. The clutch peddle feels as it should.

I know when we have had the car out of gear and ignition off, the gears can be selected from the engine bay as well.

UPDATE: I showed dad the message and he informed me he has tried. The flywheel kit was produced by SACHS. Dad contacted them to confirm the part numbers.

He is hoping it is the pressure plate binding on the input shaft but said that worst case it could be that the crankshaft is bent which is prone to happening driving with a damaged flywheel.

#5 jeebowhite

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 01:09 PM

Hi Kelly, welcome along.

To be honest all the do's that you have already done are all that I could really recommend... Hopefully someone a little more knowledgable will be able to help you.

just to be clear, the clutch moves freely when engine is off, but is stuck when the engine runs?

Can you try depressing the clutch when you start the engine... what happens, does it remain disengaged and refused to engage, or does it engage correctly?

If you try to drop the car into gear, do you feel the gearbox grinding on you?

#6 jeebowhite

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 01:36 PM

Got rid of the old thread

#7 FOCA

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 05:13 AM

Thank you FOCA for your prompt reply. I can't answer that quite yet but I have printed off your message to give to my dad to read shortly when he is home.

Andy Dibley - If you start the car in gear even with your foot on the clutch it jumps. (This was after the nipple bleed but before the pressure bleed) When the engine is not running you can select gear, but when the engine is running you cant. You can hear the revs change very slightly as you try to push it into gear. The clutch peddle feels as it should.

I know when we have had the car out of gear and ignition off, the gears can be selected from the engine bay as well.

UPDATE: I showed dad the message and he informed me he has tried. The flywheel kit was produced by SACHS. Dad contacted them to confirm the part numbers.

He is hoping it is the pressure plate binding on the input shaft but said that worst case it could be that the crankshaft is bent which is prone to happening driving with a damaged flywheel.


SACHS are quality items with a good reputation

i don't want to concern you un-nessesarily but -

I hope your crankshaft is not bent, if it is it could be very expensive to repair, so much so that an engine transplant may be more cost effective, (secondhand engines may be available from a few hundred pounds eg - e-bay, and having your dad to help saves you having to pay a garage/ mechanic to do it).

You will just have to wait and see if the crank is bent - hopefully, it is something else.

#8 KBatt72

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 06:07 AM

Got rid of the old thread


Thank you very much!

I am hoping it is not the crankshaft. Trading Standards are aware of the problems, the ball is rolling on it but that alone is a long winded thing with no gurantee of a result going my way. Needless to say I am glad I have Ford diagnostics papers.

The gearbox doesn't grind no, clutch feels as normal, you can't select gear when the ignition is on, but you can when it is off. If you start the car in gear the car jumps.
I believe dad has begun to dismantle everything again to remove the gearbox.

#9 KBatt72

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:24 AM

Update - the clutch now works. Turns out it was a sticky clutch plate. One thing to woo hoo about because the car now moves.

However, I have the wonderful engine light on. The car doesn't have any oomph behind it and mpg is pretty poor. No idea yet what it is, so I've ordered a code reader to reset the ECU, drive it, wait for the errors to pop up and then run a diagnostics on it again so hopefully that will shed light on the mattter.

#10 FOCA

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:10 PM

Update - the clutch now works. Turns out it was a sticky clutch plate. One thing to woo hoo about because the car now moves.

However, I have the wonderful engine light on. The car doesn't have any oomph behind it and mpg is pretty poor. No idea yet what it is, so I've ordered a code reader to reset the ECU, drive it, wait for the errors to pop up and then run a diagnostics on it again so hopefully that will shed light on the mattter.


Thats exellent about the clutch!

The 1st thing to do is stick a solid, stainless steel blanking plate on the EGR valve (about a fiver online)

Could you post some pictures of the engine, with the plastic covers removed?

A service helps, genuine Ford fuel filter, fresh air filter, oil & filter change (all "service" items that need doing at some point, rather than "repair" items you may not need )



And take it from there

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