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How Can I Prevent A Major Turbo Failure (Focus 1.6 Tdci 05)


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#16 grahamp

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 12:41 PM

The Ford Tech Service Bulletin 46/2008 covering turbo replacement recommends doing a 20 min flush with Wurth engine cleaner, but I asked a Ford technician and he said they definitely wouldn't flush. Could be the TSB is out of date, but flushes definitely divide opinion. Personally I'd play it safe and not bother.

 

I would say disconnecting the feed pipe is a bad idea, you're going to be starving the turbo bearings of oil, and you're going to have a job doing it with the cat section of the exhaust in place. Ford recommend disconnecting the oil return line, replacing it with a long tube, and then letting the engine idle for 60 seconds while collecting the oil in a container. You should get 0.3 litre or more of uninterrupted flow after running this test. I guess you could remove your feed pipe and probe it a bit to see if its gummed up.

 

One other thing, if your car has a DPF you'll need to pop the radiator fan and shroud out to gain access.

 

I'm just putting a shopping list together for my local Ford dealer, some of the bits are a bit expensive, I think a new feed pipe is at least £50, so it could get a bit pricey for preventative maintenance, but a lot cheaper than having to replace a turbo etc. ... I'm going to clean and reuse the sump pick up pipe but replace most other bits. If I have a successful story to tell I'll stick some info back here....



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#17 JeffFocus

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 01:05 PM

Hi Graham

 

Thanks for the reply. Yes, the oil return would be more sensible approach.

 

I thought the oil feed pipe for the turbo is the one that sits onto of the turbo and looks very accessable. So maybe I just undo this and inspect he pipe to see what the condition is like? That should give me an idea how bad the problem is. Or have I got the wrong pipe completely?

 

Might just pop down to my local garage and see how much they'll charge to take the sump off, clean the feed pipe (if possible) and give it an oil / filter change. From there on I'll just keep changing the oil and filter every 5K and hope for the best I guess. 

 

I'll be interested to see how you get on with your plan though.

 

Thanks

 

Jeff



#18 grahamp

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 02:07 PM

Hi Jeff, yeah the feed pipe is the metal one you can see on top of the turbo, fastened with a hex type bolt. I thought you meant remove the pipe entirely, and the other end is inaccessible. The thing is the banjo bolt at the other end has a gauze filter in it which is what really gets blocked up, so imo that probably needs replacing even if the pipe looks ok. 

 

I kinda doubt you'll be able to tell much by undoing that top bolt as the pipe is rigid steel, and the design of the bolts means the ends are obscured. If you do, its 30Nm to torque back up. I'd love to save £50 and reuse mine but I think I'll have to take the hit.



#19 JeffFocus

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 02:43 PM

yes I see what you mean. Tricky....



#20 grahamp

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 02:57 PM

yup, which is why I've been putting this job off for about 18 months :-D 

 

 

Oof, parts are gonna be about £180  :wacko:   and I'll probably get stuck halfway through and wreck something, should be a larf at least  :D



#21 grahamp

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:16 AM

Got a box of bits,  just need a clear weekend which could take a while. Assuming I survive I'll try come back and write up something to stick in the Guides section. 



#22 JeffFocus

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:32 AM

Hi Graham, I'm very tempted to disconnect the oil feed pipe for 60 seconds and do the test this weekend. I have tried calling Ford to double check the figures but can't get through to an engineer.

 

Are you sure it's 300ml after 60 secs? I was thinking of just doing it for 10 seconds and looking for around 50 ml to reduce the risk of oil starvation.

 

I've asked my local (non Ford) garage to give me a price on replacing the oil feed pipe. I'm also half tempted to remove the gauze when i do replace it. Ford obviously say it needs to be there but the way I look at it, if you leave it in you have a higher chance of failure than if you remove it. I cant see any benefit what so ever?

 

Would love to hear your views?

 

Cheers

 

Jeff 



#23 grahamp

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:57 PM

Hi Jeff, yes definitely 330ml after a minute, that's straight from Ford's ETIS software, and I've seen it elsewhere, for example:

http://www.assuredpe...arbo-issues.pdf

this Forte tech note states 300ml - 

http://www.forteuk.c... diesel dv6.pdf

though I wouldn't flush if I were you.

 

I asked the Ford parts guy about the gauze filter yesterday and he called their Ford Master Tech guy - they leave it in, its there by design. If you take it off you won't have a problem with it blocking, but then carbon particles could find their way to the turbo bearings. End of the day its up to you. I'll be leaving it in place. 

 

If your engine is pretty slimey inside then just replacing or cleaning the feed pipe and banjo bolt might mean that it will fairly quickly be gummed up again, if that was the case. That's why I'm dropping the sump and giving the pick up pipe a clean as well... I ought to do the oil cooler as well, which sits under the oil filter, but AFAIK I'd have to drain and refill coolant, turning a fair headache of a job into a bigger one, so I'll see what I can do with it in situ.



#24 grahamp

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 01:07 PM

the TSB for turbo failure states:

 

 

Install a longer oil return line (locally
procured) to the turbocharger and feed into a suitable container (charge air
cooler intake pipe removed for clarity).

  • Install the air cleaner outlet
    hose.
  •  
  • Start the engine and let
    running at idle. After 60 seconds switch off the engine and measure the
    volume of oil in the container. The quantity of oil collected in 60
    seconds of uninterrupted flow should be higher than 0.3 liter.

1. CAUTION:
Ensure that the engine does not run below min. of oil level.

  • Repeat the test 2 or 3 times to
    confirm the oil flow is correct. If the volume is NOT within specification
    call the Prior Approval Hotline (depending on market) for further actions.
    Prior approval MUST be obtained before a further repair
    is done.


#25 JeffFocus

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 01:50 PM

Thanks Graham

 

I'm now planning on doing an oil change at the weekend as well to try and put my mind to rest. Going to buy a 27mm socket for future oil changes but do I need anything else like washers? On my shopping list all I have is a good quality 5/30 synthetic oil and the oil filter.

 

Also, just popped out to my local garage to get a price on replacing the oil feed pipe and the chap doesn't want to do the job. He's spoken to his mechanic friend who's advised him not to touch it due to all the issues around turbo failure. Advised me to sell the car whilst I could. Nice hey. Time to roll my sleeves up i guess.

 

On another thought, I currently have AA cover via my bank and I notice that they also offer a Garage and Parts cover for £7 per month. I did look at the small print and there is a statement in there that says they don't cover parts where lack of oil has caused the failure. I think its more aimed at people who don't service the car as I doubt they'll perform root cause analysis on the turbo  failure. The only downside is that the max you can claim for is £500 and you pay £35 excess which makes it quite pricey if the regular oil changes prove to be a success. 



#26 JeffFocus

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 02:08 PM

I guess at the end of the day, by looking at the old oil filter (and sump if you have time to remove) you should get a good idea of how bad things are in the engine. If it's got loads of carbonised oily deposits, then its time to worry!! 



#27 grahamp

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 02:55 PM

Well, if the turbo goes in future the customer could blame the garage that did the work I guess. Selling the car would be a bit of a hysterical reaction though. Might be worth talking to a Ford service centre as well if you've got one nearby, they might not be as expensive as you'd think and they'll know the issues inside out. The way I see it, if I want 61mpg and a £30 tax disc on a car I can afford to buy I might have to spend a comparatively small bit of money and put some effort in! 

 

You're probably ok reusing the the sump plug and washer but they're only £3 - £4 from the parts shop so use new. There are a couple of minor details with an oil change that might catch you out first time - 

 

. the Haynes manual doesnt mention it but you need to undo 2 bolts on the intercooler pipe to get the filter off and on again. There's a vid showing it here:-

 

You need a Torx T30 to undo the undertray fasteners, a 21mm socket or spanner for the drain plug and a 27mm as you've mentioned for the filter.

 

I do the job with the car on the ground, no need to raise the front if you can reach under to undo the 2 undertray screws at the back, though it is easier with it raised. And obviously run the car til its warmed up first.

 

1. remove engine undertray

2. remove air filter assembly. Don't drop / lose the rubber ring that holds the filter down, I dropped mine inside the rad fan cowl once. While its off you can clean any oil out and check the air filter too.

3. detach the 2 bolts on the intercooler pipe.

4. remove the oil filter (do this before draining the oil)

5. remove oil filler cap, and then sump plug and drain the oil.

6. pull the old filter out of the filter cap, clean up the cap. Note where the old large o-ring was installed and replace with new ( should come with the new filter), then insert new oil filter- its a tight fit and you need to push it fairly hard to click it in.

7. refit everything, refill with 3.8litres of oil (Magnatec 5W30 Ford spec is prob the best).

 

drain plug: 21mm socket, 34Nm torque

filter cap: 27mm, 24Nm torque

 

think that's about it :-)   I did my last oil change after only 3000 miles as it was used mainly for short cold school runs over last winter- the oil was pretty thick when I chucked it, so well worth sticking to every 6 months or about 6 - 8000 miles depending on conditions.



#28 grahamp

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 02:58 PM

I guess at the end of the day, by looking at the old oil filter (and sump if you have time to remove) you should get a good idea of how bad things are in the engine. If it's got loads of carbonised oily deposits, then its time to worry!! 

 

I poured my old oil through one of those funnels with a small metal strainer, sainsbury's sell them for about £1.50...  the old oil had a real job getting past it, I had to pull it out in the end. The filter looked pretty clean though. I'd expect the bottom of the sump to be pretty gloopy- looking at my new sump, there's about half an inch at the bottom that doesnt get drained because the drain hole is raised within the sump so the plug can thread in, so not ideal.



#29 JeffFocus

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:10 PM

Thanks for the instructions, most helpful Graham  :)



#30 grahamp

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 07:57 AM

NP. Might be worth getting a fluid extractor at some point for removing that last bit of oil in the bottom of the sump. I'll have a think about that when I get the sump off. But its not happening for at least the next 3 weekends, its seems to be kids birthday party season again..



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