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stooge75

The Dmf/smf Conversion Debate

6 posts in this topic

I had a bit of a discussion with another member on here about whether its a good idea or not,so I'm just back from the leading Transmission specialists in Scotland ( Charles Butler Forfar) & I asked Gav the foreman about this,and his answer........

DON'T DO IT!

He said its a bad idea. He said its ok for transit vans,but not for cars. He said if your DMF needs replacing,then replace it with a proper replacement DMF. Mentioned the same thing as I did,about the vibrations etc,& they DO shake to bits eventually.

When I got this conversion on FOUR cars,alongside a remap,eventually they knackered the gear-box.Not maybe,DEFINITELY EVERY TIME! And Im no boy racer at 47yr old,so its not a case of me raggin my cars,quite the opposite.

I learned the really expensive way.Id say in all Ive spent about 2000 repairing damage done by SMF conversion.Its crazy,its the cheaper option,but I guarantee you it'll ruin your car in the end.

If I can stop one person from doing this conversion,then I'd be happy knowing that someone else's car isnt gonna turn into a liability the way mines did(all four). So,to the guy who disagreed with me,mate do yourself a favour & ask around 1st.You might just start to see sense,& rip that solid chunk a crap outta there,& put a proper DMF in. Oh,and they a good DMF will definitely handle the torque from a remap,unless youre tanning your motor all the timem,in which case whatever.

remember that all this company does is transmissions & clutch/dmf etc,7 days a week,52 weeks a year. He's been going for about 40 odd years,and he knows his stuff,so upto you guys from here. If you wanna listen to companies thatve only stopped messing their nappies,then so be it,but dont say I didnt try to give you advice 1st

Edited by Stoney871
language
pragmatix and Joss max like this

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totally agree many cars fitted with conversion kits are suffering crank bearing wear, dmf's are fitted for a reason.

Joss max likes this

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I completely disagree!

After my DMF failed on my highly tuned/ modified Mk3 diesel (because the DMF could not handle the low- down torque), after doing a lot of research -

I fitted a solid flywheel (SMF) balanced, matched to the clutch etc, heavy duty carbon-fiber/ Kevlar with sprung plate heavy duty with 30% higher clamping force and upgraded heavy- duty bearing

the actual SMF is a standard one as fitted to transits (made by Ford)

I fitted this 2 - 3 years ago ive driven 1000+s of miles some very hard (speed tests, track use, drag starts etc) and tis was with 400+ torques (remap, racing intercooler, electronic boost controller decat, straight-through exhaust etc etc)

All this time the clutch, DMF and engine have been perfect, the clutch is very smooth and direct, there are no strange vibrations, it has the original crank, gearbox, injectors etc

so anyone claiming that they broke theiir crank, gearbox etc, after fitting an SMF, probably fitted mis-matched components, or did it wrong, but 4 times?

The people that sold the SMF conversion kit, are one of the largest and longest running suppliers of clutches/ etc in the country, and also supply DMFs including genuine Ford ones, they recommended the SMF for me, instead of a "soft", unreliable DMF

The original Streetperformance (modified) MK3 2.2 Mondeo used a SMF (same reason as me, DMF can't handle the torque)

The 300Hp Mondeo throttle- bodied ST220 featured in Fast Ford magazine also used an SMF/ solid flywheel (specially imported from America) - this car had £10,000s of pounds spent on it, including a Quaif dif and AP racing clutch

A transit has the same engine as the Mk3 Mondeo, the transit potentially does a high annual milage, and can often be heavily laden, why would a solid flywheel be ok for the transit and not for the Mondeo?

Anyway, i still have my SMF/ solid flywheel fitted in my car and it still runs perfect

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There's no telling some folk.Mate,I was like you. I didnt believe it either,UNTIL I started doing it. I had the best folk doing my cars in scotland at the time. They said "Nah there's no damage done with SMF conversion,dont listen to all that on internet".

THEN ever so slowly,transmission SPECIALISTS(and I mean specialists!You dont get it do you,thats all they deal with. I've went in & asked them "Thought conversions to SMF werent causing damage",and they said "At the time there werent really a lot of folk doing it so we didnt really know if any damage was done,but now,aha thats a different matter,lots of folk are coming to us,and guess what,the damage is astoundiing". Now,the only consolation I take from writing ALL this,is that in the future I'm gonna be one of the threads that folk click on,& say "Well,whadaya know,you WERE right.And good on ya,for at least tryin to let folk know not to carry out this modification." I have NO alterior motive mate.I just dont want folk to feel the same horrible feeling I went through,when each one of my cars boxes,& shafts eventually turned to . There's SO much money involved on modification,its NOT in these guy's interests to turn around & say "phew I wouldnt if I were you". Instead,they do the job,& when your cars knackered they repair it AGAIN with another SMF(astounding eh,whatdaya know!).Even companys' like LUK/SACHS are involved,helping to keep a lid on it-wouldnt you,if you made all that doe?

Edited by Stoney871
no naughtyish words

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I'm not covinced about the wrecking gearbox argument, as far as I'm concerned DMFs are fitted as a 'comfort' aid. Whenever a high-performance version of any car is produced they almost always use a solid flywheel. Personally I'd stick with a DMF for a car, SMF for a van. Unless you do a lot of mileage you're not likely to change more than one DMF.

Aztek likes this

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I find this whole matter of DMF vs SMF to pretty tiresome to be honest, I mean what did we all do before the DMF flywheel came along..? Come on people please, the DMF was originally introduced for diesel engines to reduce vibration, though as mentioned in the opening post, people with transits (diesels) used to convert to SMF without any issues, though we're told that it's not safe for cars....really..!?

So let me get this right;  many transit owners convert to SMF without any issues (which I have read else as well), a transit being a commercial vehicle, which would obviously put the clutch though way more stress then someone's family car, though an SMF is not safe to be fitted in a car... I smell a rat here to be honest DMF = £££££

I am looking at going for an SMF conversion on my ST220, which as you should all know is a V6 and a V6 is by design is one of the most smoothest running engines going, though it's fitted as standard with a DMF, on a performance sports car..Mmmm..??

Let me put it this way; if DMF's are the best thing since sliced bread as some of you seam to think, how come none are fitted to high performance super cars (oh and don't get confused with duel clutch cos that's some completely different)? Or the national standard in racing applications..?


This link although a year old is an interesting read: https://www.valeoservice.co.uk/en/node/5459

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