Jump to content


Show
Photo

Which Engine Is In My Mk3?!


  • Please log in to reply
31 replies to this topic

#16 Endless Summer

Endless Summer

    Member

  • New Member
  • PipPip
  • 27 posts
  • Name: Leigh
  • Ford Model: Mondeo
  • Year: 2002
  • Location: London

Posted 12 March 2013 - 10:04 AM

Also, will this substitute for for Ford supplied rubber Intercooler-EGR hose?

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item460b1cff8b



Have something to contribute?

Sign in or register to start a topic...

Sign up to FOC Premium Membership To Remove These Ads

#17 FOCA

FOCA

    Feet on the table

  • True Ford Enthusiast
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,715 posts
  • Name: FOCA
  • Ford Model: Mondeo Mk3 Sleeper 194 flb.p.t.
  • Year: Non
  • Location: Scotland
Contributor

Posted 12 March 2013 - 03:03 PM

The EGR blank at both ends costs about a fiver per blanking plate (you need 2) if you had the right nuts/bolts etc you could do it in 15 minites, the one at the back is not as accesable as the front one  

 

MOT - only the particulates (coming out of the exhaust) are measured in the MOTon a diesel, the EGR pipe missing would probably not matter and even if it did its hidden under the engine cover, i did mine 7 / 8 years ago (total egr delete) and it has never failed due to this, actually it probably helps as the smoke is usually reduced  

 

The egr pipe is simply a metal tube connected to the exhaust manifold, there is nothing "clever" about it its a bit like your appendix, an organ that is worse than useless waiting to burst - you are better off without it  

 

The effect of dual plates/ pipe removal is quite subtle (not as much gain as fitting a remap/ tuning box) - the theory behind how it works is complicated to explain but here goes -

 

The heat- energy from the exhaust valves/ ports drives the turbo turbine, some of that energy is lost by the internal volume of the pipe and the heat lost via radiation, by removing the pipe more of that energy is available to the turbine, to help spool the turbo quicker, improving throttle response and reducing lag slightly, turbo may "come in" from lower revs and less of a "flat spot"

 

efficiency/ MPG  is improved because this extra energy is not "wasted"

 

The intake stays cooler too, increasing power a little

 

Refinement is improved (with the egr pipe removed and the cooler blanked) because the pipe is connected to the 2nd cylinder on the manifold near the 2nd (from the left) exhaust port, it makes a "ticking" noise, like the exhaust gasket is blowing, like the engine is "missing", (this is especially bad when the EGR is working) this is because the exhaust manifold is thick and heavy cast iron (which cuts the exhaust noise of the other 3 cylinders) and the egr pipe is thin steel, which does not.

 

Reliability is improved because the pipe cannot leak, split or blow, and if the blank leaks or fails, you will hear it immedeately and it will not blow into the inlet (with the pipe removed inlet/ exhaust are seperated)  

 

So with the EGR pipe removed and blanked at both ends, efficiency performance, economy, refinement and reliability is improved,  these things are not improved massively, but engine should pull smoother, from lower revs and just feel "nicer" for little outlay, (£10) for a couple of plates and a bit of work  

 

Withe the silicone for the resonator bypass costing under £20 and a breather catchtank for £30-£50 (online)  you could do the 3 things (egr pipe "delete"/ resonator bypass/ breather catchtank )  for under £100 - 

 

it would be interesting to see what this would do (performance/ economy wise)  to an otherwise stock car, its mostly "eco/ clean up" rather than "big power" it may really boost the MPG

 

You would probably need to clean out the inside of the intercooler as well as the egr valve housing and inlet manifold  

 

The silicone hose in your link is the right one for your car and is the one that tends to split 1st, so worth getting, its the realative movement between the chassis/ engine and the oil from the engine breather "melting"/ breaking the rubber down (another reason for the breather catchtank)

 

After you have fixed your car/ done work it is worth resetting the ECU (Disconnecting the battery for 30 mins so the ECU "relearns") - watch you don't loose your radio code if you do this

 

Yes, these cars/ engines have massive potential - it surprises a lot of people including sometimes other cars i come across if im "in a little bit of a hurry" :) - i like the handling/ balance too

 

Yout trip sounds like a lot of fun - especially the autobanns! - the Mondeo should be exellent for that - upto 4 people and their luggage in comfort, effortless crusing, long range between fill-ups, economical even at high(ish) speed - i envy you (its not often i say that!) but i have to stay home with my plans for word domination and all :lol:



#18 bladeage

bladeage

    Settling In Well

  • New Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 82 posts
  • Name: PAUL
  • Ford Model: mondeo 2007 2.0 tdci old shape
  • Year: 2007
  • Location: Yorkshire

Posted 15 March 2013 - 08:23 PM

Once you have sorted you problem -

 

The easiest, most cost- effective way of getting mode power is to fit -

 

A remap, (including a Bluefin) or a tuning box - the tuning box should give you a bit more bottom end than the BF, The BF  more top than the TB, both should give you significantly more power/ torque than stock (20-30hp) Superchips (Bluefin) claim 164Hp and 367Nm The Blufin costs £320 (special offer) a roveron Tuning box is about £200

 

A replacement airbox/ air intake (that outperforms the stock one) is not available for the MK3 diesel, you would have to modify the stock one or make one from scratch

 

A K&N cone filter under the bonnet just looses (a lot of) power, even an (encapsulated) BMC or venom was found not  to perform as well as the stock airbox, the airbox can be gas-flowed/ de-webbed and a larger inlet pipe attached, this is tricky as there is not a lot of space so i wouldent bother unless you really know what you are doing

 

Its highly debateable if a K&N or pipercross panel filter makes any improvement, often when someone buys and fits one, they notice an improvement because they are fitting a new, clean "performance" filter and replacing an old, clogged restrictive filter, even a cheap pattern filter (about £10) will outperform an old "performance" filter if it is new

 

Sometimes A K&N etc makes more noise - which can make the illusion of more power, (placibo effect)

 

People often fit K&Ns then forget to clean them, i fit a cheap paper filter and change it regular (at least once a year)

 

If the proper cleaning fluid is not used and the K&N properly oiled, it may restrict or filter badly, the oil can contaminate the MAF sensor

 

Even if you managed to flow more air it would not make any difference apart from the engine picking up a little better before the boost comes in and possibly make the turbo work a little less hard at full boost under a heavy load and may not increase the peak power/ torque because the compressor does most of the work, and the "bottlenecks" may be elsewhere (not the air filter element)

 

On balance you would be just as well leaving the air intake stock (after all, its the same as the 155PS 2.2ST-TDCI) and fitting stock or  pattern paper air filters regular (6-12months)

 

Turbo Resonator Bypass - on many of the early 2.0L TDCIs there is a "resonator" on the outlet of the turbo compressor,(plastic or metal) this can be removed and replaced with a short rubber/ silicone tube, this helps the engine pick up better at low revs, and even seems to help the top end on mine and probably helps the turbo work less hard - the resonator is supposed to quiet-en turbo noises down, (i don't notice any difference noise wise) - the bit of silicone hose is under £20

 

EGR Bypass - you can completely remove the EGR system and fit a special "bypass" (its about £60) to replace the valve/ housing, it is smooth on the inside so improves flow - the egr pipe can be removed and the cooler blanked at the back  - this improves power, economy and reliability

 

Larger Iintercooler - a larger intercooler can be fitted, the prices of then has come down and you can get a decent Chinese aluminium one for £80, or pay upto £300 for an Artech one, fitting a very large one may just add weight, and increase lag, and much of it is hidden uselessly behind the bumper anyway, fitting the right one has been found to improve performance, (mostly torque) and economy

 

Engine Breather Divert/ Catch Tank - the engine crancase "breathes" through a pipe  that is fed into the air intake just before the turbo compressor (for emmision reasons) this injects oily spray onto the insides of the boost hoses, and especially th intercooler where it condenses, when it hits the cool insides, it also contaminates the air in the boost hoses and mixes with the carbon deposits from the EGR system, forming an oily "goo" it gets worse as the engine wears/ gets older, its known to completely coat the inside of the intercooler (it must reduce efficiency/ performance/ economy )

 

An oil catchtank can be fitted between the engine breather outlet on the head and the inlet before the turbo compressor, it would reduce the amount of oil/ residue reaching the intercooler/ engine etc, if it was mounted in a cool place it would work even better, (oil spray would condense) - the outlet of the catchtank could even be vented to the air - it would need to be treated like another exhaust though

 

With the EGR blanked/ removed and the breather bypassed, only clean, fresh air should enter the engine, the boost hoses and the intercooler EGR and inlet manifold should stay clean once they were cleaned out (only if the turbo oil seals fail would these components become contaminated)

 

Exhaust - The mk3 Mondeo TDCI has a CAT, this can be switched for a decat, a stainless decat is about £100, it makes a significant improvement to performance, the decats are usually 2-1/2" the rest of the exhaust is 2-1/4" (including the downpipe/ flexi) its quite easy to do and you can heat- wrap the decat (and downpipe) before it is fitted, the exhaust - back-box is very restictive and can be replaced with a straight-through muffler or straight pipe, your car should have a middle silencer so does not really need the back- box

 

I think that just about covers it, others have done more, including serious lightening, AC delete, electric waterpump, adjustable  boost controllers, intercooler waterspray (upto 180HP 400Nm) or hybrid turbos (the stock one is not bad) bigger injectors exotoc fuel  (240Hp 500Nm ) (all 2.0L) and transmission upgrades to cope with the torque/ power  

 

For your trip a good service Oil/ filter change, fuel filter change (Ford or quality filters are best, cheap ones can cause problems) fresh air filter would be a good start - After the blanking plate/ service i would do the remap/ bluefin/ tuning box (all basically the same thing - squirts more fuel in) - this alone gives a useful gain,  then the resonator bypass, then the decat, then the larger IC then the back- box, the 2 plate "EGR delete" and breather catchtank are subtle improvements, but inexpensive, the other stuff mentioned is probably not worth the hassle, on balance 

 

Should give adequate power then for safe overtaking!                        

FOCA,

you are the man!

I think from all the forums I have been on before that your contributions are the most concise and at the end of the day give proper answers to the question firstly asked!

 

Nice one m8!



#19 FOCA

FOCA

    Feet on the table

  • True Ford Enthusiast
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,715 posts
  • Name: FOCA
  • Ford Model: Mondeo Mk3 Sleeper 194 flb.p.t.
  • Year: Non
  • Location: Scotland
Contributor

Posted 15 March 2013 - 10:01 PM

Thank you very much! - im not really that good a diagnosing faults because my main interest (surprise, surprise :)  ) is tuning (especially Mk3 diesel Mondeos) -  but i will try to help if i can

 

Its a great site/ forum here, very frendly with a great bunch of guys  



#20 stooge75

stooge75

    Too much time on the boards

  • True Ford Enthusiast
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 654 posts
  • Ford Model: Mondeo tdci zetec
  • Location: Angus

Posted 17 March 2013 - 12:56 PM

Remember if your egr is electronic etc,you'll get a EML after you blank it off most probably

#21 Endless Summer

Endless Summer

    Member

  • New Member
  • PipPip
  • 27 posts
  • Name: Leigh
  • Ford Model: Mondeo
  • Year: 2002
  • Location: London

Posted 17 March 2013 - 03:20 PM

Well, cleaned out the EGR and Inlet Manifold. Blanked the EGR at the same time (Not electronic EGR so no EML light!).

 

No noticeable gain in power, not that I was expecting. But the smoke issues have all but gone. Well happy.

 

I also replaced the Intercooler-EGR hose with a silicone hose. I was hoping this would remove the whistling sound I hear when the car is boosting, but alas. My friend tells me that a bit of a whistle on turbo's is quite normal and not to worry about it. I'm still unsure. I'll try get a video/sound recording of it to get others opinions.



#22 FOCA

FOCA

    Feet on the table

  • True Ford Enthusiast
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,715 posts
  • Name: FOCA
  • Ford Model: Mondeo Mk3 Sleeper 194 flb.p.t.
  • Year: Non
  • Location: Scotland
Contributor

Posted 17 March 2013 - 04:03 PM

Well, cleaned out the EGR and Inlet Manifold. Blanked the EGR at the same time (Not electronic EGR so no EML light!).

 

No noticeable gain in power, not that I was expecting. But the smoke issues have all but gone. Well happy.

 

I also replaced the Intercooler-EGR hose with a silicone hose. I was hoping this would remove the whistling sound I hear when the car is boosting, but alas. My friend tells me that a bit of a whistle on turbo's is quite normal and not to worry about it. I'm still unsure. I'll try get a video/sound recording of it to get others opinions.

Thats Exellen news! - glad you got it sorted

 

I wish mine had a wooshing sound when boosting (i cant hear it above the noise of the exhaust/ induction roar/ noise of "diesel combustion" )

 

The performance gain with the Blanking plate (has to be solid) is very slight, its usually between tickover to 2000rpm, it is often percieved as "less of a flat spot" or a "smoother" engine you would see it on a dyno/ rolling road, - if you were to measure/ time the pickup / roll on in a high gear from low revs,(with/ without solid plate) you would probably measure a quicker time with the plate fitted  

 

The "pickup" / throttle response should be a little bit better too (from low revs) its quite subtle and once the turbo is "on song" the difference will probably be insignificant, it depends on you driving style and if you tend to keep the revs above 2k its very slight, you may notice a slight improvement in throttle response (the EGR only operates at certain (low) revs and often shuts off at full throttle - if it is working properly/ not leaking)

 

You may notice a slight increase in MPG too (driving style dependant)

 

If you reset the ECU before the cleanout/ fitting the EGR blank it would be worth doing it again (after) so the ECU is set up for the EGR blank, as the ECU "learns" the car may become quicker/ run even better   

 

the whistling sound may indicate a (slight) boost leak, a "whee" noise when you lift- off/ change gear is something different (thats the exhaust)     



#23 Endless Summer

Endless Summer

    Member

  • New Member
  • PipPip
  • 27 posts
  • Name: Leigh
  • Ford Model: Mondeo
  • Year: 2002
  • Location: London

Posted 17 March 2013 - 05:01 PM

Cheers Foca. I reset the ECU as the battery was disconnected while I removed the parts.

 

Do you have any pictures of the locations of other turbo hoses? I'm not seeing anything useful in my Haynes manual and a quick google has given me mixed results.



#24 FOCA

FOCA

    Feet on the table

  • True Ford Enthusiast
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,715 posts
  • Name: FOCA
  • Ford Model: Mondeo Mk3 Sleeper 194 flb.p.t.
  • Year: Non
  • Location: Scotland
Contributor

Posted 17 March 2013 - 11:35 PM

The routing of the hoses is different for the front mounted EGR to the rear mounted EGR, and different from the 5 speed to the 6 speed  

 

The hoses come out of the turbo compressor (the cold/ "intake" side of the turbo) goes above the gearbox, (under the battery) to connect with the inlet (right hand) side of the intercooler (on most 5 speed mk3 TDCI mondeos) - the turbo resonator is plastic and close to the compressor

 

On the later (mainly 6 speed) Mondeo TDCIs, the hoses come out of the compressor, drop vertically to go under the engine/ sump to connect up to the inlet side of the intercooler

 

the intercooler is under the bumper

 

On models with a front mountet EGR (5 and 6 speed)- the hoses come out of the outlet of the intercooler and into the EGR/ inlet manifold



#25 Endless Summer

Endless Summer

    Member

  • New Member
  • PipPip
  • 27 posts
  • Name: Leigh
  • Ford Model: Mondeo
  • Year: 2002
  • Location: London

Posted 18 March 2013 - 12:22 PM

Can I check for inlet/turbo leaks by spraying propellant (Carb cleaner!?) in different areas and listening for engine idle increase?

 

Or am I stuck to listening for a whisle or visible leak only?



#26 FOCA

FOCA

    Feet on the table

  • True Ford Enthusiast
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,715 posts
  • Name: FOCA
  • Ford Model: Mondeo Mk3 Sleeper 194 flb.p.t.
  • Year: Non
  • Location: Scotland
Contributor

Posted 18 March 2013 - 03:19 PM

Can I check for inlet/turbo leaks by spraying propellant (Carb cleaner!?) in different areas and listening for engine idle increase?

 

Or am I stuck to listening for a whisle or visible leak only?

That might work on a NA engine -

 

(an NA "sucks" but a turbo "blows" :lol: )

 

after the compressor the boost hoses are under pressure so blow air out on a turbo engine so spraying anything on the hoses probably won't make the engine change note (this sometimes works on a NA because the carb cleaner may "find" and seal the leak) - you would need to see bubbles (as Sal has suggested in another thread- use soapy water) to pinpoint the leak, many of the boost hoses are out of sight, in difficult to reach places

 

Other forum members have a OBD11 - blutooth adaptor  and torque ap running on an android phone, (probably wont work on your pre OBD11 car) to read the boost pressure  

 

I have a mechanical 30psi boost gauge so i can keep an eye on turbo performance/ potential problems like lack of boost/ less than normal - i need it because i run an electronic adjustable boost controller - but its a handy thing to have anyway, its easy to hook up and costs from £30 online  

 

Once fitted you could tell exactly how much boost the engine produces, and other things

 

Is the sound when you lift off? - won't be the boost hoses if so  

 

Mondeo turbos are usually quite quiet and if there is a boost leak it usually sounds like a "hissssss" like a punctured tyre

 

If there is a "weee" sound on lift-off / over-run (eg - when changing gear) is more likely to be a leaky exhaust - check around your silencers   



#27 Endless Summer

Endless Summer

    Member

  • New Member
  • PipPip
  • 27 posts
  • Name: Leigh
  • Ford Model: Mondeo
  • Year: 2002
  • Location: London

Posted 18 March 2013 - 03:40 PM

Foca,

That makes sense about the boost not sucking in then! There is no "whistle" until about 1600RPM and it continues while I accelerate. I can't hear anything upon changing gears, the whistle stops if not under acceleration.

 

Sounds like it will be tough to get to all the hoses without a jack and stands. I'll start hunting for a high curb to park up on so I can get to the hoses under the intercooler.


Plan of attack sounds like checking a leak on boost side hoses and maybe new hose clips!

 

Sorry for this thread turning into such a monster!

 

Thanks.



#28 Endless Summer

Endless Summer

    Member

  • New Member
  • PipPip
  • 27 posts
  • Name: Leigh
  • Ford Model: Mondeo
  • Year: 2002
  • Location: London

Posted 21 March 2013 - 10:38 PM

I believe I've done the best visual and audio inspection I can on the turbo pipe system. Haven't been able to find any obvious leaks. New hose clips have gone onto the EGR/Intake hose, more due to the fact that the original hose clips were almost threaded.

 

I cleaned the MAF sensor with a cotton tip and carb cleaner. The central wire was clean with only the two horizontal wires having any visible carbon build up. 

 

Did manage to find a small hose leading to from somewhere to the air intake on the other side of the MAF that was loose. The clip has simply come undone. Does anyone know what this pipe is for?

 

IMG_20130321_182420_m.jpg

 

I've also been reading up about the turbo actuator arm on variable vane turbo's, which I believe I have. From what I understand, the arm should activate and move upon starting the engine. I removed the turbo heat shield and wasn't able to see any movement on the arm at all.

 

The vacuum hose did have a small slit where it was attached to the diaphragm, which I cleaned up by taking a  5mm off the hose. Confirmed that there is suction from the hose when engine running, but still no action on the actuator arm. I was considering trying to remove the small C clip that attaches to the arm and check the movement range but it was getting dark and to be honest I'm not sure how to remove it without it pinging off into the engine bay somewhere!

 

Should I be expecting to see movement on a vacuum operated arm, or have I got my "hoses crossed"!? 

 

 Pic below of the area I am talking about.

 

 

 

IMG_20130321_180510_s.jpg

 

The more I get into this motor, the more useless this Haynes manual becomes! So far the only assistance it has given is for torque setting............ 



#29 FOCA

FOCA

    Feet on the table

  • True Ford Enthusiast
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,715 posts
  • Name: FOCA
  • Ford Model: Mondeo Mk3 Sleeper 194 flb.p.t.
  • Year: Non
  • Location: Scotland
Contributor

Posted 22 March 2013 - 12:06 AM

The ist picture is of the breather hose (between the crankcase and the intake) its not critical (apart from it draws air not measured by the MAF sensor - it draws crankcase gasses anyway - that contaminate the intercooler/ mix with the carbon from the EGR)

 

Yes, you have a VNT (variable nozzle turbo) / variable vane turbo with a pnumatic actuator (so your engine  will be Euro 3 compliant - ok to blank EGR with no problems- ive got a feeling of deja-vue here :) )

 

The ECU knows when you are in newtral and when the clutch is down, the actuator/ rod/ vanes may not work/ move unless the engine is under load (in gear, accelerating/ car moving)

 

Aw i feel sorry for the men at Haynes, the 5 speed and 6 speed box, the fixed vane turbos, the variable vane turbos with pnumatic actuator the variable vane turbos with electronic actuator, the different types of TDDI and TDCI,(different injectors/ ECUs on early cars) euro3 and euro4, front or rear mounted EGR valves, different boost pipe routing,the extra (middle)  silencer on earlier cars (thats just the 2.0L diesel)

 

Then there is the completely different rear suspension design on the estate with different exhaust , the 2 different rear brake caliper/ pads designs (depending on year) then the 2.2 TDCI, the 1.8, 2.0Li 2.5 and 3 litre petrols then the pre/ post face lift changes, for example pre- facelift and post facelift seats are incompatible  

 

There is at least 2 different Hanes manuals - it can be a bit confusing for me too and ive owned/ modified mk3 Mondeos (& mk1s and 2s- its a bit sad really :D ) for years so don't worry about it



#30 Endless Summer

Endless Summer

    Member

  • New Member
  • PipPip
  • 27 posts
  • Name: Leigh
  • Ford Model: Mondeo
  • Year: 2002
  • Location: London

Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:34 PM

What's the best way to remove the C clip on the Actuator arm?



Have something to contribute?

Sign in or register to start a topic...


Not what you're looking for?

Register now, we have a huge community of enthusiasts to answer any questions you might have



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users