Winter Diesel Additives, 1.6Tdci Blocked Fuel Filter

[jst008]

Ford 1.6TDCi & engine malfunction - limp home mode.

I drive a 2011 Mondeo Titanium X 1.6TDCi Estate, the Econetic version which on the whole is a very nice car to car. But this week I have suffered the dreaded engine malfunction warning light & the car goes into limp home mode. Stop car turn off engine, restart which resets it, but it happens again 100m up the road even if your trying to be very careful. When thi shappens on a motorway it's virually impossible to rejoin teh carriageway as you need to accelerate hard.

As this has happened twice in 4 months the garage made some further calls to Ford who told them that the additives that supermarkets add to diesel are not the same as the additives big brands add to diesel. So although I'm doing nothing wrong buy using supermarket diesel when you mix it with big brand diesel it causes a "gelling" in the fuel which in turn clogs the filter which reduces fuel pressure which the engine does not like, hence engine malfunction.

I've read other posts talk about having replacement injectors / new dpf's but this (i'm told) is all wrong. Also the problem is common only to 1.6TDCi engines as these have much finer filters (apparently). The technician said this was a "southern" phenomenon as the problem is rarely heard of north of Birmingham. Something to do with the cr@p fule we get in London.

The additives are generally added from September to March so during this period the advice was to stick to one type of fuel or the other but do not mix. Has anyone else heard of this?

[jeebowhite]

sounds like a mechanic who doesnt really understand what he is on about :D

on an old car that has never known anything but supermarket fuel, I suppose so. Because the constant beating year after year of lesser quality fuel, it could build up, but on a 2011?

I suspect that the fuel filter is clogged and that is about it.

Have you checked for any codes?

[jst008]

^{Thanks for your reply jeebowhite, apparently this is what Ford themselves have told the dealership & it is not what one of their mechanics have said.}

^{The first time it happened a new fuel filter was fitted by a main dealer near where I live & this time 4 months later another fuel filter has been fitted by another main dealer near where I work. Two different Main Dealers both diagnosing the same fault. As I said above it's common only to the 1.6 diesel engines as these have a much finer filter (????).}

^{The fuel filter was clogged & has been changed twice, I'm doing on average a tank of fuel a week, approx 600 miles so there is plenty going through it.}

^{This time the RAC plugged his laptop in & (apart from not having my engine as it was too new for his software) he did find a coupel of codes when looking at another 1.6 diesel for a Fusion - these codes were related to low fuel pressure at the injectors etc, I have them written down if you want them. But he also suggested it was the fuel filter & has seen it a few times in the cold weather.}

[Stoney871]

It's due to waxing in cold weather and a fine filter.

Try putting in some BG248 (eBay) which will apparently reduce waxing and also improve the fuel system efficiency in cold weather.

[jeebowhite]

Agree with Clives observation, but I think the blaming solely of the supermarket fuel is a bit far fetched...

[FOCA]

Winter diesel is distributed in the UK and ROI between November and march, at lower tempratures the winter diesel does not "wax" or solidify, realative to summer diesel, here are the specs -

Summer fuel CFPP value -5.C time frame 16.03 - 15.11 Cloud point 3.C

Winter fuel CFPP value -15.C time frame 16.11 - 15.03 Cloud point - 5.C

So at minus five degrees centigrade, its the summer diesel that would clog filters, not winter diesel, so saying winter deisel clogs filters is "garbage", winter diesel is safe to use and will not damage your engine/ clog filters etc BUT it has a (slightly) lower calorific value - (slightly) less MPG/ lower performance

On one of the other forums/ sites there is a chap that works as a tanker driver - he delivers petrol and diesel to supermakkets and filling stations, in the same tanker and its- >>>THE SAME FUEL !<<<

The cars are supposed to be able to deal with different quality of fuel from all over the world (these cars are sold all over the world) - it sounds like the manufactures have found a "scape goat" in blaming fuel for design faults etc - the car should be able to cope with it - the problem is more likely to be the CATs DPFs, EGRs they stick on modern cars

Its a bit like if the bought a computer and it starts "playing up" you contact the hardware suppliers - they blame the software - you contact the software suppliers - they blame the hardware - now car manufacturers blame supermarket fuel - the car should run on any (legal, pump, diesel for a diesel/ petrol for a petrol etc) fuel available in the UK, Finer filters - why?, what for? ive done 100,000 miles in my Mondeo with no fuel/ injector related problems - it did not need finer filters and runs perfectly - it runs well on supermarket fuel with no problems - ever

High octane/ cetane fuel - Yes you can get high octane fuel - it will make a difference if you have a highly modified high performance petrol (especially turbocharged or a high compression engine) car, on a regular car, you may not notice a difference at all and the (more expensive) fuel is a waste of money, any improvements in MPG may be offset by the extra cost and the most cost- effective may be the cheapest fuel you can find

Diesel "stength" is measured in cetane - again, an engine setup for this with a custom remap or a "learning" ECU (which may need to be reset for the higher cetane fuel) may see a small advantage (but it may be quite subtle) - it may be the "cleaning" components of additives that has the most effect (cleaning injectors etc) some of these additives may contain chemicals such as kerosene which may eat through/ melt rubber seals so should be used sparingly/ once in a while

Often a good "italian tune uo" (a good thrashing, once warmed up) works juast as well - in my experience, blanking the EGR and removing the CAT and/of DPF works wonders/ better than "snake oil" and the engine seems to run great on even the cheapest fuel available

Petrol stations/ supermanket/ "dodgy" diesel -

Fuel is very expensive, sometimes illegal, unlicensed "suppliers" take red diesel (which is supplied to agriculture and has a red dye added to it, it has less/ no customs/ exise duty paid on it (80% of the price of UK pump fuel is duty/ tax) so it is much cheaper, it is basically the same bar the red dye )

These "dodgy" suppliers strip the red dye out by filtering or solvents/ chemicals, these solvents may still be in the fuel they supply, the way this fuel is transported stored may get it contaminated with dirt, rust and water etc (it may even have been stolen from a tank on a farm with these contaminants) it may also have had other things added (eg used veg oil from a chip shop - some diesel engines can run on this and pump fuel now contains 5-7% bio - diesel (red veg oil) anyway)

Regular station - bought pump fuel (from main oil companies or supermarkets) may contain contaminants - water, dirt, oil, rust - from the bottom of dirty tanks, a new/ newly-built supermarket filling station may sell much cleaner fuel than an old filling station from a major oil company

Hope ive dispelled a few "urban myths" or made you think/ made you research the subject in more detail, hopfully from a reputable source - remember - anybody can write anything on the internet (even me!) - if i said the moon was made of cheese this could spread out like a virus with hundreds of posts on different sites saying the moon was made of cheese untill eventually, there would be more posts about the moon made of cheese than otherwise - this does not mean the moon is made of cheese, or a replacing your DMF with a solid flyweel will shake your car to bits & break your crank, or tuning boxes will kill your injectors, or supermarket fuel is bad for your engine :)

[bladeage]

It could also possibly be that supermarket fuel is a blend of regular diesel and Bio diesel, they state that it is an approximate 7% bio diesel mix but having run a vw on supermarket fuel for 6 years I can say that it used to clog the fuel filters up, I reckon I had to change mine every 10 k ish. Bio diesel I think is basically just vegetable oil which I am guessing will solidify quicker when cold, maybe that coupled with motorway miles (fuel sitting still) is clogging it up?

[bladeage]

p.s. my dad had a Merc 6 cylinder truck that he used to fill up at moreasons and he had loads of trouble with that every now and again due to blocked fuel lines and filters!

[BOF]

I haven't heard of exactly this, but there is a potential problem with biodiesel. The bio fuel is chemically different from good old fashioned straight-from-a-hole-in-the-ground stuff, and some additives are not compatible with the bio. So, if you bought, say, half a tank of hole-in-the-ground fuel (not that you can normally get 100% hole-in-the-ground stuff, these days) with hole-in-the-ground compatible additives, and filled up with high-bio fuel, the additives could turn to a gel and that could block the fuel filter.

I think that one of the Red X additives says that it is only compatible with up to Bio 10 (ie, 10% Bio) for this reason. 'Normal' pump fuel is a minimum of 5% bio, and it seems that it would only take a bump to 10% to start causing problems with that.

[FOCA]

in reply to Bladage & BOF-

Yes, previously "old fashioned" "hole-in-the ground" diesel (petrolium based or fossil fuel) did not have bio diesel or veg oil in it, it was made from frfined crude oil, the crude oil comes out of the ground on land or under the sea (eg - the north sea) its called fossil fuel because it is made from fossils millions of years old, once these run out there will be none left, forever, this is why it is called "un - sustainable"

Vegatable oil is made from rape seed, as long as the sun shines, and there is topsoil to grow it, it can be produced again and again, forever - this is called "sustainable" because the power comes from the sun - if you can run your car on this - it would be effectively solar powered (indirectly)

the old fashiond "fossil fuel" diesel (without bio diesel/ fossil fuel added- lets just call it "old diesel") had a lot of sulphor in it - this caused a lot of smoke and pollution, but the sulphor was very good at lubricating diesel pumps/ injectors etc

because the sulphor in "old diesel" caused smoke / pollution it was removed from diesel eg "low sulphor diesel" without this lubricant, it would eventually have caused failures in diesel engines without something to replace the lubricatio of sulphor

Many things were tried, including 2 - stroke oil and other additives , eventually it was found that adding a little bio deisel/ veg oil was enough to lubricate diesel engines, not as well as high sulphor "old diesel", but better than other things tried (including 2 stroke oil)

so from about 2007, most of the sulphor was removed from diesel and replaced with about 5% bio - diesel/ veg oil

So the "pump diesel" you buy from you supermarket or filling station contains 5 to 7% bio-diesel/ veg oil and less sulphor than "old diesel"

All post 2008 diesel cars are designed to run on this blend (or should be :) )

many pre - 2000 diesel engines are "tough as nails" and can run on virtually anything (veg oil, recycled chip fat, "old diesel", new diesel, bio diesel etc - even supermarket fuel (ha ha ) with no problems, and many TDDIs TDs etc )

some common rail diesel engines designed/ built between 1998 - 2008 (roughly) may have a problem running on modern (low sulphor with 5-7% bio) pump diesel and may suffer premature inector or pump failure (because they were designed for high sulphor "old diesel") - the bio diesel/ veg oil may be sufficient to replace the lubricicity

The Mondeo mk3 TDCI diesels (2.0L and 2.2L 2000-2007 ) come into this catigory

BOF has a valid and important point about mixing additives to modern fuel that was designed for "old diesel" that had no veg oil/ bio diesel in it, who knows what will happen in the injectors, the combustion chambers etc (under heat and pressure)

the additives may have a bad reaction when they become mixed with (5-7%) bio diesel

there was some talk on the forum/ site of adding 2-stroke oil to (modern pump) diesel in your TDCI, as there are 3 basic types of two stroke oil -

Castor based

Synthetec

Semi - synthetic

which were designed to be mixed with petrol to be used in 2-stroke (petrol) engines, (not 4-stroke diesel engines), and if you switch from one type of 2-stroke oil to another you would have to strip your 2-stroke engine down, clean out the old oil, and rebuild it with the new oil, or it may produce "sludge" and sieze

so i would be careful what you put in your tank - and if you must put 2-stroke oil in it stick to the same brand/ type

And any additives - make sure they are formulated/ safe with modern diesel

[jst008]

_{Interesting replies - thanks.}

My engine is a Euro V emission standard engine. To meet strict Stage V emission regulations, the Duratorq TDCi engine has been comprehensively revised including new solenoid fuel injectors, now with eight smaller holes, work with a maximum injection pressure of 2,000 bar for improved fuel atomisation, compared with the former six-hole injectors and lower 1,800 bar pressure.

Not my own words but interesting point about the smaller nozzles.

There are some who say supermarkets add more bio-diesel to the mix than main brands, to lower the sulphur content.

Low sulphur diesel has an increased wax content, the result of this increase could include higher cloud point (where first wax crystals form) & greater winter wax gelation, which is also likely to increase fuel filter plugging. Low sulphur diesel with more than 5% biodiesel has a high wax content, which increases wax gelling = premature filter plugging.

Both of my breakdowns happened during sudden drop in temperature to -4 / -5degC. Maybe the garages were caught out as the winter additive is added at the station & I had a tank full of fuel which had no additive & was therefore susceptible. My last three tank fills have been Sainsburys City Diesel.

[FOCA]

_{Interesting replies - thanks.}

My engine is a Euro V emission standard engine. To meet strict Stage V emission regulations, the Duratorq TDCi engine has been comprehensively revised including new solenoid fuel injectors, now with eight smaller holes, work with a maximum injection pressure of 2,000 bar for improved fuel atomisation, compared with the former six-hole injectors and lower 1,800 bar pressure.

Not my own words but interesting point about the smaller nozzles.

There are some who say supermarkets add more bio-diesel to the mix than main brands, to lower the sulphur content.

Low sulphur diesel has an increased wax content, the result of this increase could include higher cloud point (where first wax crystals form) & greater winter wax gelation, which is also likely to increase fuel filter plugging. Low sulphur diesel with more than 5% biodiesel has a high wax content, which increases wax gelling = premature filter plugging.

Both of my breakdowns happened during sudden drop in temperature to -4 / -5degC. Maybe the garages were caught out as the winter additive is added at the station & I had a tank full of fuel which had no additive & was therefore susceptible. My last three tank fills have been Sainsburys City Diesel.

I think you are right about the filling stations being caught out, we are half way through march and experiencing sub- zero tempratures, this is about the time winter diesel is replaced with dummer diesel - summer deisel needs +3 degrees C to prevent waxing

"waxing" refers to the fuel turning from liquid into solid/ part solid ((viscosity) or like treacle it can even solidify at very low tempratures) - diesel or bio-diesel does not have wax in it- wax is not added it cannot have a high or low wax content

As far as i am aware winter diesel is not just summer diesel with additives added (eg anti-freeze) it is a different spec/ formulation produced in the refinery/ etc, the ron/ octane etc (petrol) cetane bio-oil content (diesel) and specification is tightly controlled (legit commercial filling stations)

You are 100% right about a higher bio diesel/ veg oil content raising the waxing temprature, some stations supply 5% bio-diesel, some 7% (the 7% is one of the supermarkets, not sure/ can't remember which one) - it still has to conform to the summer/ winter diesel fuel specs though

I add my own veg oil to my fuel tank - in the winter i have to use 100% pump fuel, and as it gets warmer i can add a higher percentage of (pure) vegatable oil - if i had a tank heater conversion and twin tank (1 for diesel for starting - another for veg oil - running when warmed up) i could run veg oil all year round - the veg oil can freeze solid at sub-zero tempratures, ive experimented with additives and found adding (winter) diesel is the best / safest way to lower the freezing/ solidifing point/ temprature

If your car has smaller, finer injectors, it will be more prone to problems with fuel getting thicker in lower tempratures than other cars

As some one with an interest in tuning diesel engines/ cars my main intrest re- fuel/ diesel - is its effect on performance, scince i started running/ adding veg oil to my tank/ car i have become more interested in what "they" put in diesel fuel,- it is difficult to get accurate information about this and there is a lot of misinformation/ conflicting information on the net about this, big oil companies seem to be quite secretive

[bladeage]

Excellent posts! thank you!

[kisscycles]

exactly the same problem with same spec engine, 6 months old C-Max. and the recommendation from Ford Tec colleagues was to stay with one brand of fuel when the temp is around zero. The car was put into a Ford Dealer (Essex Ford) and the words of wisdom I was given 'we have had a lot of them' ah well. The main concern was the way it failed - I was only able to drive at the limit of fuel supply, max 15mph, not to bad but this was the M25. It can be cured by sitting and running the engine and if you are lucky the heat will lift the temp to allow the fuel to run - took half hour for my car.

[stooge75]

Haha I love this discussion on supermarket branded diesel.

What a loada bumf! The diesel tanker drops off fuel where I live,to Asda 1st,then drops off the other half at the texaco garage mile up the road. 1 day he delivered to asda then next stop was the BP garage.

So no chance!

Your injectors probably need recon'd or something

[jst008]

Hi Stooge75, I don't think you've grasped where this thread has gone. No one is saying supermarket fuel is rubbish, it has to meet a certain specification. But sub zero temperatures in the south in mid march may have caught a few garages out who had already switched to summer fuel.

For the record tankers have more than one compartment & can therefore carry more than one product. If you see a tanker delivering to Asda, Texaco & BP then they can not be selling much to only want a part load ???????

As you would expect this topic in general is on many other forums, especially at this time of year when many people drive off to the Alps on a skiing break having filled up in the uk beforehand with summer diesel only to encounter problems the other side when the temperature drops to -5 degC & beyond. Be warned.

[ScotsFocus]

Personally, I use BP gets used here..... ever since I had an 1992 Escort 1.4i LX it had a diet of Esso or Supermarket fuel. It had problems of power losses, or would rev it head of at junctions. My main Ford dealer turned round and said it was the way the car was driven. After one of these fits on a busy motorway, I managed off. After half an hour, I got it going again. Later on the way home it went from 6/8ths to 2/8ths fuel in the space of 25 miles. So pulled into a BP garage filled it up, it gave a little cough on exit but it hadly used a gallon of fuel for the rest of the 55 miles home. After that I used BP, my father is a qualified motor engineer. On speaking with him, he had found out that it was throttle position sensor that had got clogged up with the other fuels. BP's fuel cleared the muck!

In the family we have 3 Focus diesels, they all get a diet of BP Ultimate diesel, the auld yin's Mk1 Estate 1.8TDDi seems to have gotten sweeter and quicker since it passed the 110k mark with average 56.4mpg. So I certainly don't think its a lot of rubbish about which brand of fuel you use. my MK 2.5 2.0TDCi gives about 51.1 average and the sister's 12plate 1.6TDCi gives 69.7 average.... with no problems.... anybody having problems use BP fuel and use nothing but!

[baitman]

is the BP ultimate diesel actually 'better in the tanker' or is it just the same as supermarket fuel on delivery to the BP garage, and only then do they sprinkle the magic dust in to the fuel storage tanks?

[FOCA]

is the BP ultimate diesel actually 'better in the tanker' or is it just the same as supermarket fuel on delivery to the BP garage, and only then do they sprinkle the magic dust in to the fuel storage tanks?

Yes, it has a higher cetane value, (from the refinery) it may contain detergents that help to clean injectors etc BUT the advantage is debaetable, the detergents may have damaging long term effects on rubber seals (its supposed to be safe) etc and the engine may not be set up to take advantage of the better cetane value

The extra cost may outwiegh any improvement in MPG (in tests, the cheapest available fuel had the best MPG per £, )

(because the "premium" fuel cost more, this outwieghed the improvement in MPG,(in an indipendant test on a motoring programme)

Bottled cetane boosters to add to your tank are very expensive too, so are injector cleaners, the high cost of these may outweigh the saving/ improvement in MPG/ or take a long time to break even

In another independant test (on petrol) the supermarket fuel had the best performance and MPG (with ordinary cars), the "super duper" high octane petrol made tha cars slightly slower with slightly less MPG, only on a high performane (260+HP) turbocharged car did they see any improvement with the high octane petrol,

[baitman]

many thanks for that explanation.

[ScotsFocus]

I can only go on my own findings, my annual mileage sits around an average of 15k per year now, the '10 Focus 2.0TDCi MK2.5 is coming up on 32.5k. But I find it performs better, and takes less fuel to brim the tank when using BP Ultimate Diesel. It's predecessor got a diet of BP Ultimate Petrol, '01 Focus 2.0i 16v Ghia it left my hands at 113k nothing other repairs other than normal service items. The one before that a '95 Escort 1.8i 16v Ghia departed at 92k the same no other than normal service items mix of normal BP & BP Ultimate Petrol. The predecessor before that was one of the earliest 1.8i Zetec engines a '92 Escort 1.8i 16v LX left my hands at 341k guess what a diet of normal BP petrol. That must be one of my most reliable cars ever, never used oil. service accordingly to intervals and belt changes & a water pump its predecessor was the dreaded '92 Escort 1.4i CFi LX mentioned earlier that gave a heap of bother when run on Esso & supermarket petrol. I suspect from the horrors that friends who have a BMW 330d, another one with a VW Golf GT170 have had been using lesser branded diesel fuel or supermarket diesel fuel have been having. The BMW has had to get a new fuel pump and injectors, BMW blame the fuel used. So they have had a hefty garage bill running well into the thousands. As has VW with problems with the injector problems on the Golf. I reckon what they have had to fork out in repairs I rather pay a few pence more for quality fuel.... you may wish to gamble with the cheaper brands or supermarket fuels... I don't!

[stooge75]

ITS ALL THE SAME FUEL FOLKS......THE DELIVERY GUY COMES OUT OF TEXACO AT BOTTOM OF RD,DROPS NEXT LOAD AT ASDA OR GOES TO BP UP TOP OF RD. THERES SOOO MANY FOLK THAT GO ON ABOUT BP,ESSO ETC. LOADA BUMF. DEALERS DONT KNOW SQUAT

[ScotsFocus]

Stooge 75 there is no need to use capital letters in any situation in any forum. It is deemed to be shouting my friend. SO DON'T at me!

As for it coming from the same place yes it does that is correct, in mine and your case I would would reckon that to be Grangemouth. Put it another way it's like full fat and skimmed milk!!! And are you a time served motor mechanic, my father is. Granted he has been retired for the past 15 years. So I reckon he'd know a thing or two about engines and the fuel problems they can have.

BP takes the top bit of the storage tank at Grangemouth, and the other brands get the next bit leaving the dregs for the supermarkets. So would you like the dregs from the beer keg to drink? Neither do I, so I reckon my car shouldn't get fuel dregs either! I guess it down to personal choice.

Stooge 75 if you think like many others that supermarket and lower brands fuel is fine for you - you use it! I am only voicing my opinion on the subject and possible solution to what seem to be a considerable problem.for the original poster!.. My sister has had two 1.6TDCi Focus's with the engine in question at the start of the is thread one being a '58 plate and the other one a '12 plate. She's a district nursing sister in the lake district, so her car gets used in cold conditions but like her father, and brother she uses BP Ultimate fuel... she hasn't had the problems described at the begining of the this tread.

ps. I remember Autocar doing a duel with the powershift version of my car Ford Focus 2.0TDCi Titanium taking it from Calais to Berlin along with a Lamborghini. The Lamborghini arrived only ten minutes ahead of the diesel Focus.... They found the diesel fuel found in Germany to be superior to here, as the Focus managed do another 10mph more than on the stuff found elsewhere! Together with added fuel range as well.

[stooge75]

Sorry about the caps,didnt even notice. As for the fuel debate,im not gonna argue

[ScotsFocus]

stooge75, apologies accepted about the caps! :) The fuel debate could rattle on I'm sure, if the stuff you use works for you thats what really matters.... You must like your Mondeo, you won't be here if you didn't - I do like my Ford's, and I like people who like Ford's too!