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#16 FOCA

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 09:33 PM

had a chance to read the rules now im home. It appears that a cat is needed on diesels as well and and also they are allowed to remove covers :wacko:

..i think you lot with decats have good relationships with your garages? lol

It does seem like that but trust me - its not - 100s of decats are sold in the UK each year for diesels i MOTd my car 3 times with the decat fitted, 3 different testers, 3 different places including Halfords, and Quick-fit

 

They were not allowed to remove covers before, so if they can now - its new

 

Im getting my car rolling road/ dyno tested soon, the place also sells performance parts and remaps, and does MOTs (its a "performance centre") it preps race / rally cars too

 

The guy that does the MOTs (never had my car MOTd there - yet) builds/ modifies  cars and has a NIssan GTR with 600+ HP, stripped out and road legal he is a member of a serious modified / racing car club/ forum (all makes) that i happen to be on too, i have already been in lengthy discussions with him about issues like decats / the new rules etc, he has written several articles about the MOT rules and the significance of them to modified cars  

 

I also talked at length with each of the 3 different (other) MOT testers obout decats/ next years MOT etc

 

As well as this i discussed at length the fitment of decats to the editor of one of the worlds leading Ford magazines, who is a lobby-ist (pro - modified Ford cars) who has been in contact with VOSA, the government and industry leaders

 

If you have specific questions, anything about MOTs(present or future), i can find out for you - if you read the VOSA site, it will only be your interpretation of it, - which may be wrong  

 

I think the "you lot" comment says a lot - like a "them and us" attitude -  you are part of this forum too    



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#17 Aldoo

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 12:01 AM

certainly a lot of reliable and reassuring info there!

Think I'll be going for it in the next week or so now

 

then full service and a remap should have it going like a whole new car! :D

 

 

and sorry if the 'you lot' came across bad, i didnt mean anything by it and i am really happy with the info im getting from being on this forum and now trying to help others where i can :)

 

Cheers



#18 FOCA

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 12:51 PM

No worries, its "us lot", now :lol: - With you bieng a Ford owner/ enthusiast & forum member  - soon to have "serious" modifications

 

You should do a build thread, with a before/ after & pictures, even get the car dyno-ed

 

There would probaby be a lot of interest  :)



#19 b1g_dav3

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 11:05 PM

If you want to ninja decat, get a broom handle through the cat and belt the innards out :P Or buy a scrappy one and do it.



#20 Aldoo

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 02:31 PM

I will soon be making a build thread yeh.

one thing ill try make a guide for is vanity lighting. the GF was saying about having lights in the mirror so i got those sorted.

i dont know how people take pictures of their progress though, i got too engrossed and just forgot about pictures!! haha

 

still looking at options for the cat. im liking the idea of hiding it with heat wrap, i would love to smash my cat, but theyre expensive so seems a real waste!

 

the current plan is:

decat

service inc fitting a better air filter (read a lot about Green Cotton)

and then a remap, likely a custom one with a dyno :)

 

Tom



#21 FOCA

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:27 PM

Nice one! -

 

If you have your camera/ phone handy when you are doing the work and take a snapsot at intervals - there can't be many (if any) that have de-datted your tipe of car that way (and done a guide/ build thread too) - you might be the 1st one, with many following what you do - so its worth taking pictures, you can do the words after  

 

if you cut the cat part out cleanly with a hacksaw/ grinder, you could sell it on for others to reweld - i dont think you could get into it with a broom handle - too many bends! (ive heard of this with metal spikes, but on cats with straight in/ out pipes you can "get at") 

 

if you have to smash/ cut the cat, a scrap metal merchant may still want/ pay for  the insides, as it contains preciuos metals like platinum  



#22 Aldoo

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:53 PM

i think ill be doing a cut off and straight through pipe. then either sell the cat or keep it for if i come to sell in future (but as an immature 'in the moment' type of guy i guess ill be selling! haha)

 

would you recommend taking the cat and flexi pipe off or just the cat?

 

ill remember to do pics though :) ..i couldnt find anything when i was looking for previous people who've done it



#23 FOCA

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 11:02 PM

I would just replace the cat with the straight pipe, so the flexi goes back on the car (save you having to make one)  

 

The pipe has to line up so the downpipe/ flexi all sits in the same place as before (angles/ distances) - so has to be measured up accurately   



#24 Aldoo

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 11:37 PM

when this snow goes (AGAIN!) ill have a look at whats involved. id assume the in and out of the cat will be a striaght line so that should be easier.

but for all i know it will be seized beyond me being able to get it off, so ill get a price of a local exhaust place to do the whole job for me.

 

i went in asking for info and he told me £35 to put a straight piece over the cat, but id guess thats just him welding it and id have to take it appart for him



#25 Aldoo

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 10:07 AM

Now armed with more information ..and it hasn't helped at all!!

Been speaking to (deep breath!) my friends,girlfriends,dad. Who has been a ford master mechanic for nearly 20 years.

He's been saying the 1.8 tdcis are bullet proof engines as they are. But they have old style big heavy pistons and inners which apparently don't like extra power.
As far as he cares decatting and the air filter will make next to no difference but just help blow it up.

He does say that the 2.0 models have a massive amount of potential though!


..hate having so much to think about!! ..i don't know whether to go for it and just have a laugh till it blows or be safe :/

#26 FOCA

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:51 PM

Now armed with more information ..and it hasn't helped at all!!

Been speaking to (deep breath!) my friends,girlfriends,dad. Who has been a ford master mechanic for nearly 20 years.

He's been saying the 1.8 tdcis are bullet proof engines as they are. But they have old style big heavy pistons and inners which apparently don't like extra power.
As far as he cares decatting and the air filter will make next to no difference but just help blow it up.

He does say that the 2.0 models have a massive amount of potential though!


..hate having so much to think about!! ..i don't know whether to go for it and just have a laugh till it blows or be safe :/

Well, you girlfrends dad might be right  but, a master mechanic is more involved in repairing stock engines and cars - power tuning is a specialized subject,  

 

A 2.0L is probably a better starting point, but as you already have a 1.8, and if you can get the welding done for £35 and you might even make a profit on your old cat its not going to cost the earth

 

Also, as you go through the process of researching, discussing, working on your modifications/ getting work done, you are learning more about cars/ engines/ tuning all the time, there are significant engineering challenges, a good mechanic is not nessisarily a good  tuner (some are) - it involves thinking "out of the box"

 

The cat is "passive" (it has no lambda sensors on it like a modern petrol engine) - it can be removed and will not make the engine run lean, the loss of back-pressure will not loose power just make the turbine spin up quicker

 

If you make a bad job of the decat you might have lumps of weld sticking into and restricring the gas- flow, or it leaks or it does not fit or it snaps in half - none of those things could "kill" an engine

 

Likewise modifications to the inlet, (pre compressor, retaining some sort of effective filter), you cannot melt plugs etc or run lean like a petrol car

 

Probably the worst thing that could happen with the decat / inlet mods is there was no improvement in power - the chances of it damaging the engine is slim - if you were revving it very high in the lower gears you could drop a valve or throw a rod, - but you would need to rev it way past the redline to do that

 

I hear "i will never work" all the time when i fitted my (replacement for DMF) solid flywheel carbon fiber/ kevlar flywheel I was told it would shake my teeth out, bend the crank and "last 5 minites" 2 years later its still perfect (i doubt a DMF would have survived me/ my car)

 

I bought a DTUK tuning box (rrp £399) (bought secondhand /never paid that for it! ) if you read many posts on forums these are just £1 resistors in fancy boxes, and all they do is fool the ECU into making the injectors squirt more fuel in and those injectors won't last long Well. i had the tuning box for years, it had a programmable digital microprossesor in it, i modified it so it had a remote dial to turn it up/ down, i then adjusted it for maximum power by doing timed runs - so the car had optimal acceleration regardless of the amount of smoke/ stress on the injectors pump etc - its lasted years , still original injectors (switched to bluefin now though)

 

There was someone drag racing a Mk1 Mondeo with the old 1.8L 8v TD lump in - it was very quick (14 sec standing quarter , quicker than an st220,  as far as i remember)             



#27 Aldoo

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 11:55 PM

FOCA, you're a very reassuring man/im very easy to persuade!! haha

 

I think ill be having a new timing belt fitted by a mechanic whilst this weather is bad, then ill look to do the work once the snow realises its nearly april!!

 

I mentioned the green cotton air filter and also said that the intakes and filters on them are about as good as they can be. claimed theres next to no difference even without a filter.

 

 

...im thinking after reading about that the mods will all make tiny differences, but i guess itll add up. plus its just something to keep me occupied isnt it! haha

He will be right that it will likely shorten engine life, even if its just due to me wanting to push it further. but i guess thats something ill address if it actually happens.

 

 

one last thing. would you just go for same width as current pipe or have a diff size for the decat section? ..the most common iv read is that 2.5 inch is best.

 

Thanks a lot for sharing the knowledge!! :)

Tom



#28 FOCA

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 12:45 AM

No worries :)

 

I use a 2.5" decat, but there is a step in the pipe down to 2-1/4" and the exhaust/ cat is a different design from yours 

 

for you, you would be better with the same size pipe as either side of the cat - so it stays the same diameter with no step up or step down, if you are going for a bigger diameter, it needs to be the whole length - from manifold to tailpipe, otherwise its a waste of time

 

2.5" is not best if it is smaller either side - its got to be a smooth flow with no "steps" - so if its 57mm on either side of the cat, a 57mm decat would be best

 

Some people say if you have more power you don't have to "thrash" your engine so hard - so a tuned motor is put under LESS stress - i suppose it depends how you drive it :)    



#29 Aldoo

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 11:16 AM

right then, so ill just continue the same diameter as it is going in and coming out of the cat :) ..next time i have the car up ill have a look if the pipe is the same diameter the entire length

 

and yeh, they say the engine wont be laboring as much so its better on fuel, but thats assuming you still drive at the same speed

 

 

as you said though, this is a learning experience, im only 19!

after a few years more N/C and me getting bored of the 1.8tdci ill probs have a 2.0. and i should know exactly what i want to do with it! :)

 

Cheers



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