Whoosh, Pop Then Loss Of Power

[ajt]

Driving back to work today after liunch, put foot down a bit in second (to get through traffic light, which was still on green but about to change), I felt the car start to pull, heard a whoosh sound followed by a muffled pop and then loss of power.

I limped back into work, getting a whining noise on acceleration and acceleration was very poor, struggling to get to 20 up a hill.

I then limped home about 5.30 and took the engine cover off expecting to see the intercooler pipe blown off, but it wasn't. I looked around the pipes I could get to, but could not see any splits or displaced pipes.

I also removed the inlet to the turbo and could spin the turbo. The spindle has no in/out movement, but does have slight up/down wobble.

I should also like to point out that over the last couple of month I have noticed a tghe car doesn't pull as good as it has in the past. (just put it down to cold weather) and fuel consumption has gone up to (again put it down to cold weather).

Last oild change was 5 months ago and the intercooler pipe was also replaced about same time, due to split in elbow.

Anybody have any thoughts as to what to check in the morning when the sun rises?

(TDCi 1.6 2007)

[salsheikh]

i would have guessed a opped hose but you have already checked this. have you checked the hoses at the intercooler?

is it smoking a lot? if i is them im saying hose has popped off, it happened to me.

whereabouts in warks are you? im in nuneaton

[stef123]

I hate to say it but i don't think the turbo should have movement in it like you describe :o

although that movement might disappear when the oil is flowing round it..

[ajt]

Thanks for the quick replies guys.

@salsheikh

I'm in Rugby, just down the road!

I have checked the intercooler hose on the drivers side, and guess there is one on the passenger side, but due to fading light I could not see it.

Not smoking so as I noticed.

@stef123

The play is no worse than when I got the car just over a year ago. I have never had a turbo before, so have no feel for how much play is permissible.

[TDCiST]

Best to get the error codes read, then we may know more to be able to help...

just to satisfy my curiosity, have you thought about checking the fuel filter? If its got any shiny metal swarf in it, that can signify the end of the HP Pump, and my old focus wooshed and popped before losing all power when it went...

[salsheikh]

there will be very minimal movement on the turbo...a millimeter or so but not much

if you can take the front grill off, pull it towards you and it will start to come away..

you should be able to check the hose on the i/c on both sides.

you not got the flashlight app on your smart phone? i find it very handy!

[ajt]

Ok, pulled grille out abit, but still cannot see hose on passenger side, as body work obstructs it. I'll have to take airbox out I think.

[salsheikh]

best leave it for tomorrow then mate

[ajt]

@TDCiST

I never considered the fuel pump, as it still runs. It just runs like a dog, lacking any power, struggling to get to 30 on the level and 20 on a gradient. The MIL light is not on, but I have a code reader and will go out later and check. GF here at the moment, she'll be gone by 9, off saving lifes (nurse)!

[salsheikh]

i'm ready for my bed bath!

[ajt]

OK checked scan codes and came up with the following

1. P0319 Rough Road Sensor B Signal Circuit (Probably triggered a couple of weeks ago when I hit a massive pot hole)

2. P1936 Clutch Switch / Sensor Signal (no idea)

3. P1402 Exhaust Gas Recirculation Metering O r i f i c e Restricted (<- This looks interesting)

The above word had to be spaced, because it was removed if not!

I cleared the codes and then drove around the block. No codes returned.

What would be the symptoms if the wastegate diagphram was punctured or ripped?

[ajt]

i'm ready for my bed bath!

You'll be lucky, I have to do it myself!

[FOCA]

There is a switch on the clutch pedal, to tell the ECU when the pedal is up or down, (no2)

If the turbo diapram is broken the wastegate will not open (fixed vane turbo so the boost may increase untill the hoses blow off) or the vanes will be stuck in one position (good pickup but too moch boost at the top end (like fixed vane with no operating wastegate) OR very slow pickup but boost safe)

No 3 - EGR - put a blanking plate on it period - this is the code for a faulty or restricted EGR (or interestingly, for a plate already being fitted)

A solid, stainless steel plate will cure all sorts of problems

A boost gauge is a great item to have fitted to a turbo car and can help keep an eye on turbo performance and help diagnose problems

[STEADS]

Have you got a scanner that shows what fuel pressure you are getting it has to be a certain psi to even fire up i think if i remember correctly when i had problems on my 2.0 about 4000 ish but if its firing and low could point towards your pump being naff worth a look

[ajt]

OK was up at the crack of dawn and check all the boost pipes for any splits. Couldn't see any so bit the bullet and put it all together and took it down my local indt garage. The guy kindly read my coeds and said they pointed to the Mass airflow sensor. He suggested that i disconnect it and see if it made any difference.

So I did. I then drove a small circuit around the local area and found that it pulled better (still not like it should and still way down on power). So I have ordered a new one and should be picking it up about 11.30 this morning.

The car has now warmed up, and is smoking like crazy!

The garage also spotted that injector 4 was leaking, and needed a new sealing washer. He suggested I get the washer ordered and they would fit it.

[salsheikh]

ok thats good. atleast your getting somewhere and its nearly fixed.

[FOCA]

OK was up at the crack of dawn and check all the boost pipes for any splits. Couldn't see any so bit the bullet and put it all together and took it down my local indt garage. The guy kindly read my coeds and said they pointed to the Mass airflow sensor. He suggested that i disconnect it and see if it made any difference.

So I did. I then drove a small circuit around the local area and found that it pulled better (still not like it should and still way down on power). So I have ordered a new one and should be picking it up about 11.30 this morning.

The car has now warmed up, and is smoking like crazy!

The garage also spotted that injector 4 was leaking, and needed a new sealing washer. He suggested I get the washer ordered and they would fit it.

If there is loss of boost for any reason (split pipes, faulty actuator/ turbo etc) you will loose power and produce a lot of smoke (the same amount of diesel gets squirted in to the engine but not enough air)

This, and many other things, may not show up in fault codes, fault codes can be misleading, you may be lucky and the sensor is faulty, but the sensor may be working fine and the new sensor will read the same values

The ECU can often not determine whether a sensor is faulty or not, it may be a loose connection, or snapped wire, the sensor/ wires etc may be working perfectly, and there is another fault (eg not enough flow/ too much or too little boost etc etc) that the sensor is reading like it should, - it always makes me concerned when a sensor is blamed for a problem, sometimes, the plug onto the sensor is loose or corroded, and fitting a new sensor seems to "fix" it but the old sensor was ok, and cleaning the contacts would have fixed it, (without paying for a new sensor)

The exessive smoke is a bad sign (personally the 1st thing i would do is fit an EGR blanking plate (about £5) (stainless, solid), how much is a new sensor? )

As others have said in the forum, there is too much reliance on fault codes but that is just a handy tool and no substitute for knowlege & experience

Anyway i hope this fixes the car

Just as a matter of interest - is it a VNT turbo , is the actuator a pnumatic one?

Is it a euro4? is the EGR pnumatic or electronic?

[ajt]

I have changed the Mass air flow sensor and replaced the seal washer on injector 4 (cylinder 1). Less smoke now, only noticelable when changing gears, but engine limited to 3200 RPM and acceleration really slow.

Fault codes were cleared before last run, and have not come back.

@FOCA

I thought I had a garret turbo, but might be wrong. I think it's pneumatic as it seems to have a vacuum pipe to it. I think the car is Euro 4 and the EGR has a plug on it so guessing it's electronic.

So in conclusion the car is in limp mode with no fault codes!

Does it take a while before limp mode clears or does that have to be done at a garage?

[ajt]

Just read that disconnecting battery for twenty minutes can clear limp mode (ow er missus!). So see you in 30.

[salsheikh]

Alan,

i agree with Foca. i had a split hose once and this caused it to smoke - i drove 120 miles to the outlaws like this once..could only fix it once i got there..in the frigging rain! duck tape to the rescue!

spray some soapy water on the pipes and get the car running to see if any new bubbles appear.

[ajt]

OK still in limp mode after battery disconnect for 30 minutes.

So current state is NO fault codes, but in limp mode. Smoke only when changing gears, and not that much just a puff or two.

[FOCA]

It might not be in limp (home) mode - it might just be lack of power without actually triggering "limp mode"

Does the glow plug light flash or stay on after you start the engine?

It would be good to know how much boost you are producing - you can pick up a boost gauge for under £30 online, a mechanical one is easy to set up/ connect i would get a 30psi one ballpark you shoul be producing 18-25psi

As Sal says spray some soapy water on the hoses - splits in the pipes can be hard to spot

If you are loosing boost the MAP sensor man now be reading it now and the ECU reducing the fuel = less fuel = less smoke but "no" power

Is it really slow to pick up ("gutless")

disconnecting the battery resets the ECU, this will knock it out of limp mode and resetting it also makes the ECU "start again from scratch" if you know what i mean

How fast is the car flat out? does it go uphills? it could be a boost leak (some loss of power) turbo fault eg siezed vanes/ fault in the VNT / loads of other things including the EGR

is that the PSA engine? the one with the DPF? - Can you take some pictures of it

If i were you i would order an EGR blanking plate (solid, stainless steel) it may fix your problem and it only costs a fiver.

How much was the MAF? try the old one back on - might run just the same and you could get your money back or resell the new one

[salsheikh]

Alan, if you have an android smart phone then get the torque app and the bluetooth obd2 adapter, this will let you check and clear fault codes and will also let you check various other things..and also boost pressure

http://torque-bhp.com/

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torque&hl=en

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Car-ELM327-OBD2-OBDII-Bluetooth-Diagnostic-Auto-Scanner-Adapter-CANBUS-TOOL-/261185372178?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item3ccfdc8012

[ajt]

@FOCA

You have given me alot to think about, but I think it's limp mode becuase the revs rise to 3200 RPM, and then the power drops and the revs will not rise above 3200, but they are quite happy to sit there.

It is gutless on acceleration, but this would also be limp mode.

As for putting old MAF back on, I was toying with this idea, cost £90 inc vat, which was best price I could get.

My car is DPF.

As for turbo, the acctuator may have a problem. It might be sticking, I say this as when I disconnected battery earlier, I heard a definet clunk come from the turbo area. Should I be able to move the actuator fairly easily with a scre driver? Becuase I can. There is noticeable resistance, and could probably not do it with just my fingers, cant reach for one.

[ajt]

I do have a code reader the FF2 I think. It has live data, but not sure what I should be looking for, also absolutely peeing down at the moment, as it has most of the day.

I also have a modified ELM that is used with the Russian software. Only really used it to set the doors to auto lock!