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Whoosh, Pop Then Loss Of Power


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#31 ajt

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 08:19 AM

Have been out again this morning just after 7, to put old MAF back on. I was being real quite and only took 5 minutes. Dropped the bonnet to close it, again probably not from the height I would normally do it, so as not to wake anybody, but it didn't close properly! Off went the alarm, and as you would expect, I couldn't find the keys! It seemed to take about an hour to find them (20 seconds in real time).

 

Anyway took it for a run and still in limp mode, but no smoke (only when changing gears or hitting 3200 rpm). So take the new one back. Every cloud has a silver lining.

 

I have disconnected battery again in hope of clearing limp mode, still no new error codes. Going to leave it off for a couple of hours.

 

After getting out of the car and about to open my front door I did note a clunk again, which I believe is the Wastegat/actuator on the turbo closing. Is this normal?



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#32 ajt

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 11:39 AM

I filmed wastegate actuator, and as usual did not clunk when being filmed!

 



#33 salsheikh

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 12:09 PM

Alan, i listened to the video but there wasnt much sound...other than an interference type of noise.

sadly, i dont know what that part is so cant help much :-(



#34 ajt

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 01:07 PM

Sorry, no sound, but as stated no clunk either. Just posted video as I thought someone may find it intersting. The nice part is that the rod seems to glide fine, rather than stick or judder. I still think it sticks sometimes after being driven. I'll keep and ear on it.



#35 FOCA

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:06 PM

The diaphram is very unlikely to be split/ leaking, with that much travel,(which is a good sign) the bit at the end is probably the actuator re- setting itself

 

So its inconclusive - but i would say the diaphram/ actuator is ok by looking at the video -(for some reason it was silent on my pc - i will try to sort that EDIT - there is no sound - it would be helpful/ may tell me something) ideally you need to measure the boost pressure somehow to see if the turbo/ boost control systems are suppliing the correct amount of boost  



#36 ajt

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 07:19 PM

OK not good news. Took it to indy this morning who hooked it up to his diagnostic machine and said, there were no codes to clear. He made a quick call to someone, said, "Focus TDCi, Zetec, limp mode but no errors.......OK" and hung up.

 

He then pulled MAF plug to generate an error, which it did, then cleared it. Still limp mode. At this point he said he was busy all morning and return it at lunch time, which I did. I left it with him and an hour later got a call that I didn't want to get. He thinks it's the turbo. !"££""*&^&*.

 

I went to pick it up and pointed out that the end play in the turbo was no worse than it was 18 months ago when I got it. He suggested I spend £45 and book it in at Ford for diagnosis, which I have done. They can't take it till Thursday though, due to over booking the next couple of days.

 

So when I got home I thought I would take the EGR off (as you do), to see if it was sludged up. I gave up when the metal shime slid from my finger tip and slid somewhere under the engine block! So I just put the screws back in and nipped them up. The sick thing is I kept thinking don't drop the gasket!

 

Still in denial and hope it is something else, as indy said I was looking at £1000 to get it done properly. I just can't believe it's the turbo,  as I said in OP there was a surge in power then a definate pop, followed by instant lack of power. This ties up with injector seal giving u, imagine some crud being pushed out of the seal, temporarily sealing it, until it pops out the side and then seal is now broken. What could go pop in the turbo?

 

Just in case, anybody want to recommend source for new/recon turbo?



#37 salsheikh

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 07:51 PM

there's lots of places like cr turbo's, turbo technics etc but if it is gonna cost you big bucks then you might as well get a replacement engine....



#38 FOCA

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 09:26 PM

"its the turbo" could mean lots of things - its the turbo what....? (the turbo wastegate, the compressor, the turbine, the vanes, the actuator, the shaft, the bearing the seals  )

 

Is the turbo producing too much boost (then the ECU triggers limp home mode) or too little bost (no power)  

 

Saying its the turbo is a bit like saying "its the engine" :lol:

 

You can pick up a secondhand turbo from about £100 on ebay, depending what is wrong with the turbo you can get recon or new cartriges (a turbine /compressor & bearing assembly that you fit into your existing turbine housing, then fit the compressor housing on )

 

I have a spare complete turbo assembly (exhaust manifold, turbine/ compressor with housing actuator etc) that i bought on ebay for £100 (its different from yours) if my old "turbo" failed, i would fit it myself but if i had to pay someone i recon i could get it done for £50 to £100 (i know "people") - it may cost you a bit more than that, but i would imagine you would have a fair bit of change out of £1000, (like £500-£600 change :lol: )

 

If the turbo bearing siezed it does not mean you need a new engine  

 

If one little biy of the turbo fails you dont have to throw the whole turbo assembly away (whatever they say) if one bit of the engine fails yoiu don't have to throw the whole engine away - where do you draw the line, throw the car away and buy a new one?

 

Dont worry about main stealers and their extortionate prices, whatever it is, you can get it done cheaper, and often better



#39 ajt

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:12 AM

@FOCA, I'm not a spiritual person per-say, but I like what you preach and it gives me comfort in my time of need  :innocent: (yes, until I read your post I was that depressed).

 

I have taken the decision not to drive the car know until the stealers have come back with diagnosis. If it is the turbo then I shall ask exactly what and why. I shall then report back here.

 

I would actually enjoy repairing/refurbishing a turbo (I'm an electrical/electronic engineer who slipped into programming, but consider myself a bit of an all rounder, i.e. not afraid to break things!)

 

So if it is turbo releated you are obviously the person to talk to, hope that's OK.



#40 FOCA

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:46 PM

No worries, yes, your electronics skills/ knowlege could be handy regarding your car, its amazing how specialized people have become -  i will try my best but i don't consider myself an expert in turbos - there was a chap on here that has specialist knowlege - i asked him about a potential turbo upgrade for myself but he has not got back to me yet      



#41 ajt

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 07:22 AM

I managed to work out how to log data from my ELM327 OBDII reader and have attached a small log. It looks like the Intake Manifold Absolute pressure is hovering around 14psi, I did take the car to the 3200rpm cut off, although for less than a second (so probably not logged as the resolution of the charting isn't brilliant.

 

I would have thought the boost should have cut in before this point though?

 

Won't let me attach .csv file so renamed extension to .txt, you may want to change it back to get it to auto open in excel or something else.

Attached Files



#42 FOCA

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 03:44 PM

Is the 14psi just atmospheric pressure (the turbo not producing any boost at all/ no boost measured at the MAP sensor) or is it 14psi >above< atmospheric?

 

When the boost comes in is revs >and< time related - but it should be producing a reasonable (measurable) anount of boost before 2k/ 2.5k and a couple of seconds after pressing the throttle - is the car >really< slow  (no boost/ turbo siezed/ not connected to inlet/  engine not running of the turbo like an NA)

 

I could not decipher the data - just looked like a load of numbers on whatever i opened it with



#43 ajt

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 07:29 PM

Its the turbo. I drove it gingerly today, to try and get some more data, I had drawn the same conclusions as you about no boost what so ever. As soon as I pulled up on the drive I disconnected intake pipe to turbo and tried to spin it. It turned but didn't spin, and there was an noticable amount of oil, maybe just under a teaspoon, nicely coating the intake. I guess oil seal has gone. So I phoned ford and cancelled tomorrows appointment.

 

I almost have the turbo off, but there is one bolt I just can't get at, its the lower one need the oil return. Just can't get a socket or spanner on it, the oil return connector is in the way. Then the light went so now indoors.

 

I have already ordered a repair kit of ebay, £30 quid. I had read that all the kits are identical, and no point in paying closer to £50, for some.

 

Whilst attempting to take the turbo off I did note one of the heat shield bolts was missing, and the oil feed banjo only had one copper washer and no filter!

 

Me thinks I was sold a pup 18 months ago and have been lucky it didn't fail sooner.

 

I have already dropped the oil (plan on doing this twice), and it looks clean, no swarf that I can see. I will take oil filter out tomorrow, and check it for swarf.

 

A couple of questions,

1. The oil feed pipe is now disconnected from the turbo, and appears to "swing" around where ever it is fixed to at the other end. Is this OK, and where is the other end (I guess behind the DPF)!

 

2.I'm going to see what damage has been done to the compressor and turbine, if any (wishful thinking), and then decide wether or not to use repair kit. A new cartridge is £150 on ebay, anybody any experiences with these. I guess they are balanced.

 

3. Any advice on how to do the job, tips and tricks? i.e how to access the bolts that hold the turbo to the block.

 

4. How do you seperate the DPF and turbo? There is a clamp that I have undone, but the actual metal c-cup (cross section) clamp does not seem to want to slip one way or the other. Don't want to force it.



#44 STEADS

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 07:49 PM

If the clamp is the same as on the 2.0 i took the bolt out got a long flat bladed screw driver and just worked it round thats the easy part you want to try getting it back on lol as for the bolt you cant get again if its like the 2.0 i had to take the manifold off and drop the whole lot out again not that easy but with a wiggle and jiggle it should come again getting it back in was a pain still got work to do on my 2.0 i,e connect all the plumbing back up and cat/dpf and clean sump out been sat for a while now as winter set in so left it bought the 1.8 in the mean time .



#45 ajt

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 09:09 PM

Had to give it one more go before giving up for night (girlfriend just went to work), and it's off. Woohoo

 

...and if there could be good news, it is that the shaft has snapped and the exhaust side has jammed. Haven';t taken it apart yet, but I guess I could just get shaft and ends, to go with rebuild kit, or would it be a better option just to get center cartridge, either way I'm placing order on ebay tonight, unless any one wants to recommend somewhere else.

 

I eventualy got to last nut using 11mm deep socket on to a ratchet uninon coupling.



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